The problem is, of course, is he sort of has to encourage it. It would be a brave man, given where he is in his career at the moment, to not yield, at least a little bit, to those particular expectations. It's housekeeping, to an extent. There's interest and expectations out there and he has to tend to it a little to maintain it. Especially when he's not able to announce whatever deal he has in place.

It's disappointing for those of us who are fans of Nicky or Luke for more substantial reasons than 'omghesperfect', because I suppose we're shut out of it all somewhat while we probably feel we have more meaningful things to ask and say. And I know I can't help worrying about what aiming for that particular market will do for the nature of Nicky's upcoming output (will his voice be allowed to shine, will he continue to develop it, work hard on it, will it be just mediocre pop-fluff that could literally be anyone singing it etc), so I can certainly understand your concern for Luke's, and especially his songwriting.

I guess all we can hope is that they both remember and remain true to their original goals - Luke with his singer/songwriting, Nick with the sheer joy he gets from singing and expressing) and that the tidal wave of crap that's currently slamming up against their shores doesn't alter distort their aspirations. Ultimately, that they're happy in what they're doing is THE most important thing, regardless of units sold, girls screaming etc.

An mmpfb essay, now I feel your pain at my earlier essays


I prefer the way Nick's dealt with it, a lot more than Luke; I hate the whole #hashtagfriendiesinevery****ingthing business, it all seems so glib and like he's been educated in how to build a Media Presence; and honestly sometimes I get the impression he spends three-quarters of his life googling himself. If he wasn't so talented and seemingly extremely likable I'd really loathe Luke tbh To be fair, I don't know how much is him and how much is those around him, but nah, I think an awful lot of it is just down to him. And I don't like it, no matter how much it's working for him (and it clearly is, if his great dream is to be adored by hormonal girls that couldn't give a shit about his music; and what a shit dream if it is).

Nick seems so much less - I think contrived is the word I want. Might make him less successful, but that's no bad thing maybe.


Maybe that was before they were in the xfactor machine and before they got the guidance and advice on dealing with FAME and GURLS/BOYS. Bragging about being able to DM Luke is definitely A Thing, I don't ****ing get it. And I think it's fair enough trying to drum up support early on. And I suspect he'll have changed his number probably conveniently when he changed phones to the Samsung Product Placement Phone.


Eating Lorne sausage rolls and swigging Irn Bru, surely He does seem to be a bit less bewitched with it all than Luke is, whether Luke's genuinely enchanted by it or just wanting an audience and taking what he can get. I wonder how it'll affect Luke's supposed aspirations to be taken seriously for his music though.

Tbh, the whole thing ****s me off, but I wonder if there'd even be this forum if there wasn't such a big audience, even if so many of them are stupid girls.

Haha. Given the number of times girls tweet 'Oi read your DMs MADFACEMADFACE' I suspect he's probably given up on meaningful communication through those as well. I mean, it really must be impossible with the avalanche of notifications and tweets to sort through all the guff to anything of any substance.

I mean, I get a trickle of notifications a day, and half the time I can't be bothered with them! Imagine getting the barrage those boys do!

But what sort of career, if it's driven by appeasing the desires and demands of the loud screamers rather than musical quality or integrity?

- god, how pompous does that sound? I hope you get my point despite that.


Okay, explain to me WHY you want a follow? He follows so many people, it's not like he'll ever see anything you tweet or read any of your DMs. Why on earth do you want him to follow you, when it's so meaningless?

Regardless, it's my life's mission to get you a follow, I just don't know whytf you want one

I could never loathe Luke. I've honestly never seen him actively encourage complete crazies, except the odd responses to daft questions like "will you do a naked calender shoot?"

I don't follow Nicky quite as closely, so I can't offer an opinion there.

Now I have a headache. GREAT.

Oh Red *huge hug*


I could.


I have, but maybe I'm misinterpreting; I see screeds of girls begging for god knows what and then him tweeting stuff that just seems to encourage it, and I smh and die a bit inside.


I see the same frenzied crap being thrown at him, but he's way, way less glib than Luke.


See, Luke Friend is Evil.

But but

Maybe it's a coping mechanism??

Tell that to all the goats he's sacrificed. Oh no, you can't. Because they're DEAD. Because of Luke Friend.

'Luke Friend' is an anagram of 'Eviler than Satan', btw.

Wow, I said I was disillusioned, not that I had done a complete 180 and suddenly though Luke was the anti-christ

Funny how this started out as annoyance and aggravation towards the idiotic fanbase, and then suddenly got twisted on to the objects (and I mean to use that word) of admiration themselves. Those girls really are a disservice to what they supposedly 'lurve so much'

The scales need to drop from your eyes one day; tonight is as good a time as any.


Haha, yes, true I guess it's what mmpfb was saying about the backlash beginning, except in this case it's a tiny, pathetic, footstamping mini-tantrum in an obscure (we hope) forum in a dark corner of the internet, and not live tweeted mass suicide in full, glorious technicolor, obviously with an accompanying hashtag (#friendiessuicideparty ?).

But I think the people that encourage the crap are as responsible as the people that produce the crap in the first place.

Or maybe it's just like I keep saying, it doesn't matter how much I like Luke's pre-xfactor original music, and his talent and his skill, I'm not the audience he's interested in and it seems inevitable that he'll accommodate the audience he actually wants and that will maximise his profile. So it'll be Mumford pastiches all the way and to hell with writing or performing good stuff, and god bless the little girls, I hope they're all very happy together *subtext: I hope they desert him and he realises the errors of his ways*

I feel like the wicked witch that didn't get invited to sleeping beauty's christening.

As a 23 year old, maybe I'm finding it a bit difficult to come around to your way of thinking, but I'm old enough to think the majority of Luke's followers on Twitter are ****ing irritating as all hell. So I guess that's...better than nothing?

Sorry! I don't feel I'm structuring them particularly well this evening either, so I do apologise! Especially as here comes another one.




This is a really interesting point you've brought up actually, because I hadn't really thought of it in those terms before. I've been paying more attention to Luke recently, partly because of the joint gig and partly because of our discussions in here, and I do get the sense in a way that he's ultimately more (potentially ruthlessly) ambitious than Nick. I really do think Nick just ADORES singing, and more so being able to sing for people who appreciate it. I really do think that's his entire motivation - and that's part of the reason I adore him. Luke, I suspect, has a more defined roadmap planned in front of him and is more 'careerist', which I guess is simultaneously entirely admirable and everso-slightly cynical.

There is a slight irony, given the general perceptions of their respective genres of music (as much as they are in their current partially-formed states), that while Nick is being 'less contrived' (if we can run with that perception for a moment) and is being managed by his mum, Luke is signing with big management firms, signing endorsement deals etc - in that sense Nick is currently being the 'indier' of the two! Whether that's by design or circumstance, who knows? But it will certainly be interesting to see their respective careers play out.

There is part of me that still wonders just how much of a 'producers pick' Luke was, and how much his narrative was planned/encouraged. We've touched on this before in here of course, in light of the derailing of Nicky and the pimping of Luke in the last four weeks. Upon rewatching some of the series again it did strike me how, while Luke wasn't pushed to the fore particularly early on in the lives, there was always seemed to be a subtle, sometimes almost subliminal 'Lukeness' bubbling away under the surface (sorry, that's a really lame attempt to describe what I mean but hopefully you get the gist) - the meeting early on with Seal who 'loves what you're about', the underpinning of his artistry, his differentness etc. Then (and this is where it's possibly getting tenuous but humour me here for a moment) there was that silly XF app which they kept plugging - on rewatching I noticed that Luke was ALWAYS featured as the 'example' on the fifth judge illustration. 'You thought LUKE FRIEND was good/great' or whatever it said… now obviously they're not going to have an example saying 'such and such was bad' because they'd be accused of trying to influence votes. But this is exactly the sort of thing the could count, should one want to entertain the notion, as subliminal positive affirmation - the basis of many a subliminal advertising technique - basically, while your attention is focussed on Dermot in the foreground, there's a big block of text telling you LUKE FRIEND IS GOOD. Every single week.

Of course, it could just be that they picked someone at random, and couldn't be bothered to make more than one illustrative motion graphic. But actually, it wouldn't be difficult to change it week on week at all - the animation would be in place, it would just be the image and text that would need to be changed. And we know they generally make decisions for their own reasons over randomness, after all.

I don't know. It's supposition and speculation on my part, but I would't be at all surprised if it turned out Luke had a somewhat more backing behind him than we've been led to believe.


I definitely think so. Pre-lives they'd have had to try and cultivate a fan base completely by themselves. At least Nick would - I'm not sure how much of one Luke already had by doing teenstar etc.


Let's face it. We all get caught up in it to a certain extent. Whether it be screaming girls or my armchair analysis above! From recent days on this thread though, I can see the attraction of just giving into primal, unthinking fangirlism. It's kinda elating in a weird way. Odd that I never did that at the appropriate age as well!

I just read that entire essay, and it didn't help my headache in any way

I'm just too damn lazy to analyse things so intensely like that.

I love your essays, so much so that I moved me and all my shit through to the other room with the Big Computer with the Big Monitors so I could reply properly


I think you're absolutely spot-on; Luke seems incredibly focused and career-minded and professional, it blows me away that a guy his age is so utterly focused on his ambitions, and works as hard as he does (little example: the amount of gigs he's done since xfactor finished). And especially since I've been around a lot of aspiring musicians in my time, most of whom have sat and waited for glory to find them and then mourned that it never did, and a few that worked like **** and eventually achieved small success. <-- that's why I kind of understand Luke taking the short cut of the xfactor, because there are brilliant artists that never get the break they need, but I guess there is a bit of me that does have that 'you didn't pay your dues, you didn't serve your time, and all your fans are by definition morons' attitude. Not necessarily fair though, I know that.


Heh, another brilliant point, how interesting, I'd never thought of that.


I hadn't noticed the app (that was drink/kettle/smoke time ) but I've come to the same conclusion as you in retrospect, that Luke's 'dark horse' narrative was intended from the start, and of course totally fits with the 'indie/outsider' music thing. They're far too smart for us.


Luke had a bit, but not that massive (lol, please don't misread that!). Probably more than Nick in the circumstances, and early foolishness is really forgiveable from both of them, and anyone else.


Heh, true, and part of my backlash is I'm sure because I got caught up in something I've never been caught up in before, and am now going 'wtf was that all about? Who are all these little girls?'.

And tweeting Nick on your behalf will never get old :P

Oh, go on, it's fun

I'll stick with being an owl, thanks. Hoot hoot.

I get your point, entirely and fwiw I don't think it's pompous at all. But this, as we know, is the eternal dilemma of X Factor and one of the reasons I think that, in all the years I have been on this forum, I often find myself arguing, supposedly against type, with people who start eulogising the 'creative/quirky/indie/integrity' one, despite my general tastes being eclectic, slightly-to-very left field, and for the most part not very mainstream.

I never truly believe the acts who are portrayed as different/creative. Never. Even if they're my favourite. Because everything on the show is filtered with some sort of intention, and it always will be. Think of Cher Lloyd and her 'creative' mashups, copied from Swizz Beatz. Think of Ella, who was portrayed as this amazing find who came out of nowhere and surprised the judges with her song about her grandfather, who I saw turn up on a repeat of Celebrity Come Dine WIth Me on More 4 a couple of months later as the 'entertainment' of one of the celebrity contestants (Daniella Westbrooke, possibly). Think of Union J with their prearranged management deal. Think of Rough Copy, who someone has been trying to make happen for the best part of three years. At least half the acts of any set of live shows have already been knocking about and known to both the producers and the record companies for quite some time, and that's probably a conservative estimate.

What am I trying to say here? I guess why I'm trying to say is that I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turned out that the screaming senseless girly horde was what Luke aspired to. On the other hand, I would't be surprised if it wasn't what he got into the show for, that he thought of it as a platform, but that now he has that particular crowds attention he might feel reluctant to give it up.

I don't know. None of us know what Luke's thinking, and none of us know what his intentions were and will be in the future. I think what will ultimately be telling will be when we find out who he has signed with. If it's Syco, exclusively or joint deal, then perhaps this was the plan all along (or it wasn't, but he's been seduced by it along the way. If it's a smaller or even a non-Sony company then maybe it suggests he is remaining true to himself and his musical ideals, and that he's just used the show as a platform to get himself out there before taking the reigns back for himself.

I'll be honest though, and I hope it won't upset you, but I do harbour the suspicion that Nick was the true upstart here, in light of how we saw the series play out. Increasingly so, in fact.






Haha. Oh dear. I'm not sure I can answer that in anything approaching a satisfactory manner! I don't know! I'm enjoying being slighty loopy fangirlish, I guess. Rationally I know it's meaningless. But it would make me giddy for a moment or two. Or even a week!

Twit twoooo

*sulking*

Haha. I'm so incredibly flattered by that *SMILEYFACEBECAUSEDSJUSTTOLDMEIHAVETOOMANY*




Yep, As I said in one sense it's hugely admirable. And in another it doesn't quite fit with our ideals of the artist. That's the incongruousness. But I generally <3 incongruousness so that's ok

But yeah, I think I tried to put across why I'm not often taken with the 'artier/thinkier' ones on the XF, despite that being more in line with my general tastes. I never truly believe it and tend to go with my gut, whether it be Nick because his voice just does stuff to me (not *that* stuff - behave), or Misha B for her sass and performance skills. The artisty, for me, comes later, because there really is no room on XF for genuine artistry.


It's funny. I had noticed it during the series proper, but hadn't thought much of it. It was only once rewatching, with the benefit of hindsight and the later signifiers that came into play, that it stuck out like a great big sore ****ing thumb! Every. SIngle. Week.




Totally forgivable. Needs must and all that. Funny that going into the lives Sam C had by far the most and ended up with by far the least of the boys. I say funny, I mean justified *WINKYFACEFORSAMEREASONSASABOVE*




Yep, I can't quite remember getting caught up in something quite this way for a long, long time. It's nice in a way because it's a youthful thing to do. But then critical thinking kicks in and spoils all the fun

Damn that brilliant, talented adorable boy!




Wait, what? What the **** have you done while I was writing that big bloody dissertation?

I <3 music.

If there wasn't music in life, I'd honestly top myself.

I'm all about emotions, and music helps me feel every single emotion.

Every time I hear this, I genuinely cry.


Pet your penguin. You'll feel better!

OUR ESSAYS ARE OVERLAPPING.

What do you mean, too verbose?!


I agree with this, I've always 'known' it, I don't know what was different this year. I do think that Luke's worked very hard to promote himself: he took part in the adult open mic and got to the regional finals, then the teenstar thing, then xfactor, and I've heard something about him wrt The Voice (hang on, I'll go and ask the Luke thread since that's where I think I saw it). He said about open mic that he did it too soon and didn't know his own voice and style, and I got the impression throughout the xfactor that he was a real sponge in terms of soaking up all the advice and guidance and info he was given (though I'm not sure how much discernment he had about what he was being told). That blatent desire and ability to learn and grow was one of the things that really drew me to him before I got so totally smitten, and I still think it's utterly commendable. He always seemed to make the absolute most of the opportunity he was given, and I do love that about him. I don't like some of the things he learned (the over-projection, the stilted performance elements - not quite air grabs - oh Nick, my heart weaps for you - but from the same book of 'godawful outdated performance techniques') or the overstyling, but I love that he was so receptive to learning them.

So I'm not sure about him. I am so intrigued by the fact that his ep wasn't removed from itunes when everyone else ever's has been - I want to know what that was about, it wasn't that they were just unaware of it.


If that's what he aspired to, why spend time learning to play guitar really well and write good - genuinely good - songs instead of just working out and concentrating on being hot? The girly horde couldn't care less what he played, he could just randomly hit a few strings and there'd still not be a dry seat in the house. Example: Sam C.

I buy the idea of getting caught up in it far more than that being the idea from the start. Maybe I'm just hoping.


I'd agree except for the 'SYCO (et al) have first dibs on all xfactor final 12' factor; they don't have a choice and he knew that from the start. Unless his folks got him a really great lawyer that successfully renegotiated it (which is what I wonder about wrt the ep staying on itunes). But no, I suspect he might have been their toy since day 1.


I do wonder

Ofc it doesn't upset me


A week of giddy mmpfb is worth a lot Even if it is completely inexplicable

Don't sulk

You knew the risks when you got involved here!

I can't believe you all went to bed and left me here

Has that not happened before, though? IIRC Lucy Spraggan's EP stayed up, at least for the first couple of live shows.

I do agree it's intriguing though. It does suggest to me that there's more at play here than the whole 'busker from Devon made good' thing going on - the shadow of a much larger machine looming on the horizon.



Because that's what you do, innit? Before you even consider what could be. WHen you first learn an instrument you explore it's every nook and cranny. You start to write songs if you're son inclined (or in my case start to make beats etc because you can't structure a song easily and you can't write lyrics for shit). I used to spend hours upon hours with my synth and sampler creating little things. I never ever thought of it as a possible career. I just loved doing it and had vague fantasies of being the next Trevor Horn. The one time it occurred to me that maybe I should have followed through on it was when the Prodige released Voodoo People and people started banging on about how it was new and exciting because it fused heavy guitars with breakbeat etc. I was miffed because I'd made a little thing with PJ Harvey & Kool & The Gang samples which sounded INCREDIBLY similar about a year earlier. 'Oh what could have been' I thought to myself.


Entirely possible. Though the more I think about it, the more I feel like there may well have been at least a wizard behind the curtain, if not a fully fledged machine.




Ah yes, I forgot about that. Is it definitely still the case? I do wonder how that works within the wider context of Sony, given that actual Syco is a very small team.

The other possibility that occurred to me is that a deal may well have been struck beforehand (an extrapolation of your lawyer idea, if you like) from another record company - either within Sony or without - and that could explain why we have heard nothing about contracts etc as yet.

Another company could well have 'bought' space on the show, for instance, in the same way that Sam C is reputed to have been a placement on behalf of SImon Fuller. These deals are not unusual - it's not a huge leap from record companies buying shop floor space in HMV or, indeed, a special BRIT award being created for One Direction to make sure they win one.

Much more remote idea here: Does Tory Barlow still have his own label? He'd be able to pull strings for sure...




I'm glad. This is all speculation on my part, obviously. And I'm quite possibly coming at it with my own set of prejudices




I'd be running on the spot! And inexplicable? You cray cray. He's amazing!