Well, if you don't mind I won't wait for your opinion! I'll decide for myself. I go into a show I want to watch positively. That way I usually enjoy it.

I never really got the appeal of Merlin either though so its not a surprise. I always found it pretty plodding and clunky. I have slightly higher hopes for The Musketeers at this point although God knows if that'll land on Saturday nights or somewhere else.

No, I quite agree. People seem to be treating Atlantis as some sort of sure fire thing for the BBC. But the genre comes with plenty of risks, and it could easily fall to pieces.

Every time I watch it I don't get whether it's supposed to be an adult or family drama. It comes across as extremely dark at times - I know Merlin became dark near the end but it wasn't always like that and it certainly wasn't promoted that way. It was more of a sword and dragons romp whereas Atlantis seems more... bleak, somehow, in it's outlook.

But that's just going from my opinion of the trailer.

Well, the BBC didn't commission Atlantis in order to thrash XF. They're not that stupid. They commissioned it to offer a good reasonably rated alternative to XF. There isn't really anything to compare. XF will get more viewers than Atlantis. But Atlantis will lap up enough wandering viewers to make it successful.

It is darker than Merlin. And Indiana Jones style violence is in it. It is more family watching with a parent present than just family watching while mum and dad get tea.

Hence the later start time. I do wonder whether the Indiana Jones style violence will turn some people away from it but at the same time could attract a slightly different kind of audience who didn't watch Merlin.

The X Factor will win against Atlantis for sure.

I think that By Any Means will be a hit. It's a light hearted show, not too dark or gritty, so very viewer friendly with easy to follow plots. It's also very similar to Hustle which was very popular in its time.

I can't help but think it could have been an even bigger hit away from Downton (I think it could have hit 6-7m elsewhere) but tonight I think it'll get 4.5 -5m instead. It is a perfect alternative to Downton.

Of course it will. No one is expecting any different.

I thought I'd share this as a slice of the varying ways people watch television now

In my house this evening there are four Downton Abbey fans. You would think that they would watch the show together but you would be wrong. One of them watches live on ITV, another watches live on ITV+1, the third starts watching a recording part way into the show so they can skip the ads and the fourth will watch a recording later in the week. All of this means that I run the risk of getting four doses of Downton Abbey a week. Sometimes my life is like a nightmare hellscape.

I'd move out!

Well done to everyone who quite rightly called SamuelW out. Plus there was absolutely no influx of new characters at all - all but two in minor roles (the nanny and the friend of Carson) were returning from last year.

It was a great opener and actually nothing really happened - that's what makes a great drama great. You can watch and enjoy a fairly simple story unfold that in this case did little more than reintroduce the characters six months on - and that's all it needed.

Apparently there was some excitement over an electric mixer! Sorry if I spoiled it for you Alex!

Established dramas like Spooks and George Gently were getting about 4million against DA. So i think it's quite unlikely that By Any Means, which has had low key promotion, will start with 4.5-5million. It's better to have low expectations for it bearing in mind what it was facing, a 3-3.5million overnight would be a satisfactory result against DAs 8-9million.

I wonder if ITV plans to air Thunderbirds on Saturday night in 2015 or it being a co-commission with CITV, will it just air on the CITV Channel? its 26x30m so could easily air from January to June although I imagine ITV could split into two 13x30m series.

Atlantis looks okay although it does look like its mixing various Greek myths into one series and in one setting.

The Clint Eastwood film did well for Channel 5 at 21:00 with 1.07m (5.9%) / 1.18m (6.5%). I'd be interested to see The Great Escape did at 17:50.

Oh yeah - forgot to mention the multi-million pound stunt towards the end.

And can't see Thunderbirds on anything but CITV.

ITV Studios I imagine will want this to sell internationally so exposure on ITV wouldn't hurt. 6pm on a Saturday with maybe first look episodes on Sundays at 5pm on CITV.

Seriously, not even a spoiler warning!


The flipside to that argument would be that surely a new drama should have stronger pull with floating viewers who will have already decided they don't like or have no interest in an established drama. Not that I think By Any Means is going to do especially well. I've not watched it yet but the trailers made me feel like the BBC were trying to sneak a turkey out opposite Downton. I really haven't liked the BBC trailers lately...


Surely they'll at least give it a trial run on the main channel. It has enough name value that it should be able attract a decent initial audience although that its CGI animation may very well put people off. They could do worse than to air it before Britain's Got Talent (and maybe Saturday Night Takeaway) next year if its ready and see how it does. If it doesn't do well they can quietly switch it to CITV for the rest of the run.

I suppose BBC1 had already decided to repeat the Ronnies compilations there before they had a date for the third Coronation St. I often wonder how far in advance the schedules were finalised in those days. Sooner than now?


Thanks. That explains why I couldn't remember any of the early Saturday evening shows from 2003! I remember ten weeks of The Chair in autumn 2002, though.

Oh my God! The Chair! John McEnroe! That was a horrid programme! Didn't it preceed Fame Academy? It was Fame Academy in 2002 and 2003 wasn't it?

On an X Factor note (since I know that's a universally popular topic of discussion in this thread) I've just watched the promo for Boot Camp next week. It strikes me that SyCo have clearly been watching The Voice and taking notes.


The Chair, was that the John McEnroe one? All I remember about that show is that at the same time it launched on ABC in the US Fox debuted a similar show that had people answering questions in a torture chamber. Ah the good old days...

Looking at the dates on Wikipedia it would appear that for a brief time The Chair and Fame Academy were part of the same BBC1 schedule. What a winning night that must have been.

(And yes Fame Academy was 2002 and 2003)