The BBC doesn't have quite so many that desperately cling to for all intents and purposes exact same format though. This year alone ITV have aired Dancing On Ice, Splash, Britain's Got Talent, Stepping Out and The X Factor all of which are essentially the same basic format. To suggest that their schedule is packed with diverse formats is a little disingenuous. How many weekends in 2013 won't have been anchored by at least one phone driven reality competition show on ITV? And how many weekends in 2013 will have featured two shows of that nature?

I would admit that BBC1 also has too many reality competition series but at least there's a little variation between the likes of Strictly and The Voice compared to Masterchef and The Apprentice. This for the record is part of the reason why I'd be against shifting Bake-Off to BBC1 next year unless of course its in trade for Celebrity Masterchef (although I know their scheduling is different). There's only so many of these shows any one channel should have.

Itv relies heavily on Simon Cowell Syco company. Within the last year every seasin has included his company

"Red or Black" - Ant and Dec

" Britians Got Talent" - Ant and Dec

"Food Glorious Food" - Carol Vonderman /lloyd Grossman in a very similar product to "The Great British Bake Off" with the tent, judges and style.


"The X Factor" - Dermot O Leary
These shows are running right across the year so I think his company has a very firm grip on itvs entertainment brands that from yesteryear we would not have seen during itv s more regional output. The company misses the edge that Granada TV brought to its programming and other companies such as Central and Thames. There now seems to be a fixation on reality shows rather than "Prime Suspect" " Jewel in the Crown" "Cracker" that it produced really well instead you may get an hour of "Coronation Street"in a slot that was once graced by "World in Action" or "Survival".
Itv has created really good replacements "Downton Abbey" "Broadchurch" but it needs to be more varied in how it uses its schedule and not go with the soap option all the time.

You can bet that Food Glorious Food would never have been commissioned if it hadnt been a Syco [or Itv Studios] production. Cowell has this firm grip on Itv, he forces them to commission crap like Red or Black and Food Glorious Food so his productin company made tons of money, otherwise in his negotiations for BGT/XF he threatens to leave.

I disagree with that.

We've seen repeatedly that The X Factor can offer a strong halo effect in the Autumn and help to produce noticeably better ratings for many formats that would otherwise sink without a trace. I find it difficult to believe that Through the Keyhole would have launched as well as it did without the aid of an X Factor lead-in. I'd also point out that the problem here isn't Cowell or The X Factor but ITV. The BBC faces the exact same problem as ITV in the Autumn because of the dominance of Strictly Come Dancing the difference is that the BBC is slightly more focused on developing shows to air around Strictly. ITV know that The X Factor is going to be on in the Autumn and they know (roughly) what time it'll air. They should be developing shows to air around it not developing random entertainment formats that seem completely out of place airing before or after it. Through the Keyhole actually seems to be one of the few times they've done this and its working relatively well for them. Also the idea that ITV can't compete with Strictly is as redundant as the idea the BBC can't compete with The X Factor.

Let me also point out that there's no reason ITV should have to launch big new entertainment formats in the Autumn. The X Factor isn't on the air January-August. That's a lot of time to find new entertainment hits (minus an 8 or 9 week break for Britain's Got Talent). ITV's problems are much more deep rooted than being able to blame on Cowell and overlap greatly with problems of the BBC.

For once you actually speak a bit of sense (emphasis on 'a bit'). Syco effectively sold ITV their own show. FGF was just 'Britain's Best Dish' set in a field which managed a relatively similar audience yet at 5pm and hosted by Mary Nightingale!

Rubbish.

ITV commissioned Food Glorious Food because of the success of The Great British Bake-Off not because SyCo forced them to. I'm also curious as to why people think ITV are powerless in this relationship with SyCo, where are they going to take The X Factor and Britain's Got Talent if ITV decide not to renew them? Nowhere that's going to deliver the same kind of audience.

Several season premieres on US TV last night
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/201...-rises/203367/

In the same vein as your reply - CRAP. You are living in DS la la land if you think there is an issue at ITV. When Cowell is long gone ITV will have moved on to someone/something else - if you are as naive to think they will suddenly wake up one day wondering what they will do when he goes oh dear... :yawn:




In the strange world of Samuel he reckons every single person (child/man/woman from aged zero) has the ability/intellect to watch tv/ITV.



In the words of wizzywick - CRAP. As if I am sitting here taking criticism personally of a tv channel. Hilarious. :yawn:

Alex, your posts are coming across as a little contradictive. Perhaps I am misunderstanding them but they're not appearing as consistent viewpoints.

Who said I was referring to you?

And with regards to naivety, if the cap fits.

That Puppet Game Show's not scheduled for this Saturday, despite their only being 1 more episode to show.

Probably because it's a very sport heavy day, meaning 6:45pm is the start for non-sports/news with I Love My Country.

Using that logic, when X Factor was almost hitting 20m for its final, ITV were stupidly ignoring the other 40m people in the UK.

When the Olympics were airing to 24m people, the other 36m people were being ignored etc

I think thats the funniest and most desperate thing I've ever saw SamuelW write, just when I'd said there was a shred of truth in what he had put.

Who were you referring to then? Another poster/posters on here - name them.

You seem to have all the answers for ITV - maybe you should apply for a job there to sort out their issues?

Itv2's The Magaluf Weekender bombed on its return for the second series with less than 534k [incl +1]. This is significantly less than the 700k-900k the first season was getting. It has become the 2nd Itv2 program this month to underperform for its 2nd series, following The Big Reunion which has been getting ratings as low as 170k.

Geordie Shore didnt get a post-CBB Charlotte exposure bounce either, with less than 500k watching the MTV reality series.

If his posts irritate you, it would be best not to let them overshadow those which are at the very least constructive.

On a different note, how have the teatime quiz shows done so far this week?

Davina McCall is filming a pilot for the bbc next month. Must be the first time she's been back after her chatshow

Your posts are very aggressive. There are several pro-ITV posters and as I have a policy of not slating any poster unless I am directly replying to a post or as a result of a post they've made, I will not name anybody nor do I feel obliged to. What I posted was a well reasoned view replying to your views. I never used the word CRAP. That is a word you decided to use. I did use the word rubbish because I felt your viewpoint was. It doesn't mean you are wrong. You decided to become personal which in itself suggests you are a poster who actually does take it personally when someone criticises ITV. Otherwise you wouldn't reply in an aggressive manner. I will not reply to your posts in future. I like to engage in discussion, not a slanging match.

My point was that XFactor uses up many hours of important Autumn schedule, leading to a less diverse schedule overall. So for example, when XFactor airs on a Saturday night for a live show, there is normally 3 programs on Itv the entire evening from 7-11pm. The circa9million XF viewers are being served as well as maybe 2-4m other unique individuals who watch Jonathan ross or take me out/catchphrase.

Compare that to BBC1 which during SCD season, between 7-11pm they air 6 different programs. So the c9million SCD viewers are being served [about the same as XF, maybe slightly more actually], but maybe another 6-8million or so other viewers of all those other shows [Atlantis/Merlin, National Lottery, News, MOTD, Apollo etc]. So overall even though XFactor might get the headline 9million number, BBC1 is actually serving more viewers throughout the evening and therefore BBC1 continues to hold a strong weekly reach of about 80pct whereas if you compare to Itv, its weekly reach has decline from 80pct a few years ago to 65pct nowadays. This is as a result of a less diverse schedule, which happens as a result of XFactor being extended [and other programs like the soaps].

Now if a channel has a bigger weekly reach, it is much more beneficial in terms of promotion for new programs. If BBC1 promotes Atlantis on BBC1 with x number of trails in 2 weeks, up to 85pct of the population might see the trailer. If Itv trail a new show like Breathless with x number of trails in 2 weeks, up to 70pct of the population sees the trailer. Therefore BBC1's Atlantis is in the better position already ratings wise due to extra exposure to millions more viewers [7million more according to latest www.BARB.co.uk data]. This is partly as a result of a more diverse schedule rather than having one show block out 2-2.5hours of the schedule resulting in less diversity and fewer viewers watching the channel [and therefeore promos] overall.

My point has never been that ITV is being ruined by the evil that is Simon Cowell/SyCo nor that their exerting undue pressure to get shows on the air. My point was rather simply that SyCo shows do occupy a lot of time on ITV and that to suggest they don't and that this is without risk or potential problem for ITV is wrong and that secondly ITV's weekend schedule isn't varied and is underpinned almost year round by what is basically the exact same format.

Sounds interesting. Do you have any more info? Perhaps she is doing a show where she has to do impressions of Debra Stevenson!

Incidentally, does anyone know what the name of the Saturday night show was that Johnny Vaughn and Denise Van Outen did for BBC1 a few years back?

Oh Ok. I did miusunderstand then. My bad. Sorry.

In fairness The Big Reunion wasn't really a second series was it? Wasn't it just behind the scenes of the tour? The bigger test will be how it does if they reunite a new set of bands next year.


Dare I ask for what?

Passport to Paradise?

Good points raised Samuel, but I thought it was the purpose of the BBC to provide more varied programming to cater for all of the population for some of the time? With that in mind then the BBC are fulfilling their commitments on a Saturday night. ITV however are more business orientated and need to show prime time programmes that are appealing to the advertisers as well as the viewers.

That's very short term thinking though, isnt it. Just look at what's happened in the last 2 years, Itv weekly reach for the first week of September has plummetted from 76pct to 67pct.That is a pretty major drop in just 24months and we've seen the impact that's had on some of their ratings. New dramas are launching with just 3.5-4million instead of 5million+ that they used to. And returning shows like Doc Martin are down 15pct, in line with the weekly reach drop. It's not good having a shrinking weekly reach, at this rate in 2015, they might be down to about 58pct. XFactor might be getting 7-8million viewers in 2015 with its 2.5hour episodes hogging the schedules but how will those new shows launching then cope with such a diminsed section of the population to be promoted to. Being trailed to 58pct of the population is much worse than 75pct which used to be the case a couple years ago, and it will impact the ratings.