I'm sure if people really Want to watch through the keyhole they will stay up an extra 50 minutes on a weekend night.
The Ratings Thread (Part 53)
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Originally Posted by square_eyes:
“ITV are going to have to be a bit bolder than that come 5th October. XF should be set at 8pm really.
SCD is surely going to have a marathon show on 5th Oct to fit all the couples in, so will have to start earlier. If there really is a 25 minute lottery show it might be something like this :
18:30 Strictly Come Dancing
20:15 Atlantis
21:05 The National Lottery
21:30 Casualty
22:20 BBC News”
“ITV are going to have to be a bit bolder than that come 5th October. XF should be set at 8pm really.
SCD is surely going to have a marathon show on 5th Oct to fit all the couples in, so will have to start earlier. If there really is a 25 minute lottery show it might be something like this :
18:30 Strictly Come Dancing
20:15 Atlantis
21:05 The National Lottery
21:30 Casualty
22:20 BBC News”
Isn't that live week two? I don't think they're eliminating any couples in week one so there will be 15 couples - it might need two hours to fit everyone in.
The 8pm start is nul and void anyway. For all the good it will do them they may as well go directly head-to-head with Strictly. Give it a year and the BBC may be angling for that anyway.
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“Isn't that live week two? I don't think they're eliminating any couples in week one so there will be 15 couples - it might need two hours to fit everyone in.”
“Isn't that live week two? I don't think they're eliminating any couples in week one so there will be 15 couples - it might need two hours to fit everyone in.”
It will likely be this:
6.20 SCD
8.20 Atlantis
9.05 National Lottery: 49 to 1
9.30 Casualty
10.20 BBC News
10.35 Match of the Day
Originally Posted by SamuelW:
“Simon cowell has stifled the creativity at Itv. Because XFactor airs in the plum 8pm slot, all other entertainment shows on Saturdays in the autumn have to be aired either before it up against Strictly or after it when it's too late to get a big audience. Either way, new shows on Saturday nights in the Autumn are just not given a chance of succeeding due to Simon Cowell's show using up all the best slots.”
“Simon cowell has stifled the creativity at Itv. Because XFactor airs in the plum 8pm slot, all other entertainment shows on Saturdays in the autumn have to be aired either before it up against Strictly or after it when it's too late to get a big audience. Either way, new shows on Saturday nights in the Autumn are just not given a chance of succeeding due to Simon Cowell's show using up all the best slots.”
Through The Keyhole seems to be doing OK. And just imagine where ITV would be without a tentpole like X Factor? These days even X Factor has to go against Strictly so they need something strong.
There is plenty of time throughout the year to launch new shows. Not to mention the option of stripped series launching off the back of X Factor.
If something launches on ITV at 6.30pm (as X Factor once did) and gets a 30% share then before long ITV would accomodate it in a better slot. But that hasn't happened.
Quote:
“ In isolation, XFactor and BGT ratings might look big, but Cowell's influence on Itv has progressed the channel's decline because theyre way too reliant on him and dont give other shows a chance to thrive. There are 60million+ people in the population, 9million watch XF/BGT, the same 9million every week for many hours of the year. That means 51m+ are being ignored by the public and due to this, Itv's weekly reach has been declining hugely - only 67pct latest week on BARB where as two years ago it was 77pct. The Cowell overload has let to this major weekly reach decline and impacted on other shows.”
“ In isolation, XFactor and BGT ratings might look big, but Cowell's influence on Itv has progressed the channel's decline because theyre way too reliant on him and dont give other shows a chance to thrive. There are 60million+ people in the population, 9million watch XF/BGT, the same 9million every week for many hours of the year. That means 51m+ are being ignored by the public and due to this, Itv's weekly reach has been declining hugely - only 67pct latest week on BARB where as two years ago it was 77pct. The Cowell overload has let to this major weekly reach decline and impacted on other shows.”
Except we know that the reason X Factor is so valuable is precisely because if attracts a different audience to what ITV usually gets.
And to suggest that "the same 9 million every week" is wildly wrong and misleading. It's not even close to being true for this week.
Quote:
“Cowell is also a liar and a cheat, not someone you'd want to trust. Just ask Andrew Silverman.”
“Cowell is also a liar and a cheat, not someone you'd want to trust. Just ask Andrew Silverman.”
If I were Peter Fincham I'd certainly not be accepting any holiday invitations for me and the wife onto the yacht at Christmas.
But it's not really relevant now, is it Samuel? Little bit of a meltdown there...
Originally Posted by SamuelW:
“You can bet that Food Glorious Food would never have been commissioned if it hadnt been a Syco [or Itv Studios] production. Cowell has this firm grip on Itv, he forces them to commission crap like Red or Black and Food Glorious Food so his productin company made tons of money, otherwise in his negotiations for BGT/XF he threatens to leave.”
“You can bet that Food Glorious Food would never have been commissioned if it hadnt been a Syco [or Itv Studios] production. Cowell has this firm grip on Itv, he forces them to commission crap like Red or Black and Food Glorious Food so his productin company made tons of money, otherwise in his negotiations for BGT/XF he threatens to leave.”
More nonsense. If Cowell could force them to commission shows then he'd have far more on air than he does. They've commissioned 2 shows from him since 2008. They commissioned 2 shows from 12 Yard in less than 10 days over the summer.
Originally Posted by mintbro:
“I'm sure if people really Want to watch through the keyhole they will stay up an extra 50 minutes on a weekend night.”
“I'm sure if people really Want to watch through the keyhole they will stay up an extra 50 minutes on a weekend night.”
The X Factor tends to see a decline after 9.30pm because of people going out on a Saturday night and that's one of ITV's biggest shows. I'm A Celebrity... tends to take hit on that evening because of it and Big Brother tends to pull in it's lowest audience on that evening.
9.30pm onwards is too late for a family/'wide' audience show on a Saturday night. The audience is depressed (numbers wise!) to an extent that it hurts the programmes airing.
Originally Posted by wizzywick:
“It will likely be this:
6.20 SCD
8.20 Atlantis
9.05 National Lottery: 49 to 1
9.30 Casualty
10.20 BBC News
10.35 Match of the Day”
“It will likely be this:
6.20 SCD
8.20 Atlantis
9.05 National Lottery: 49 to 1
9.30 Casualty
10.20 BBC News
10.35 Match of the Day”
I don't know why ITV didn't try and utilise +1; they could have at least tried for Bootcamp and Judges Houses and if it failed then try something different for the live shows.
And keeping Stepping Out on the Saturday night is completely insane. They should have thrown it out at 6pm on the Sunday and be done with it. A Celebrity Chase repeat would have done better in that slot.
I still think XF should at least be aiming to finish no later than 10pm. They'll have to go ahead with a clash on the 5th.
Confirmation that there is to be a Christmas Special of Catchphrase. These are the celebrity editions recording this weekend (from SRO Audiences):
3pm Friday 20th Sept - David Walliams, Kimberley Walsh & Emma Willis
noon Sunday 22nd Sept - The Christmas Special with Michael Ball, Carol Vordeman & Michelle Collins.
3pm Sunday 22nd September - Jo Brand, Charlie Condou, Denise Van Outen
6.15pm Sunday 22nd September 2013 - Mel Giedroyc, Tim Vine & Ashley Roberts
3pm Friday 20th Sept - David Walliams, Kimberley Walsh & Emma Willis
noon Sunday 22nd Sept - The Christmas Special with Michael Ball, Carol Vordeman & Michelle Collins.
3pm Sunday 22nd September - Jo Brand, Charlie Condou, Denise Van Outen
6.15pm Sunday 22nd September 2013 - Mel Giedroyc, Tim Vine & Ashley Roberts
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“The X Factor tends to see a decline after 9.30pm because of people going out on a Saturday night and that's one of ITV's biggest shows.
And keeping Stepping Out on the Saturday night is completely insane. They should have thrown it out at 6pm on the Sunday and be done with it. A Celebrity Chase repeat would have done better in that slot.”
“The X Factor tends to see a decline after 9.30pm because of people going out on a Saturday night and that's one of ITV's biggest shows.
And keeping Stepping Out on the Saturday night is completely insane. They should have thrown it out at 6pm on the Sunday and be done with it. A Celebrity Chase repeat would have done better in that slot.”
9:30pm is hardly an issue. We've seen the late night result shows pre-2009 pulling in nearly 11m around that time.
Of course, if its a final that's a different story, but it doesn't seem very late.
10:35pm is a different story though...
We'll find out how strong Celebrity Chase is whenever and wherever it returns.
Originally Posted by square_eyes:
“Confirmation that there is to be a Christmas Special of Catchphrase. These are the celebrity editions recording this weekend (from SRO Audiences):
3pm Friday 20th Sept - David Walliams, Kimberley Walsh & Emma Willis
noon Sunday 22nd Sept - The Christmas Special with Michael Ball, Carol Vordeman & Michelle Collins.
3pm Sunday 22nd September - Jo Brand, Charlie Condou, Denise Van Outen
6.15pm Sunday 22nd September 2013 - Mel Giedroyc, Tim Vine & Ashley Roberts”
“Confirmation that there is to be a Christmas Special of Catchphrase. These are the celebrity editions recording this weekend (from SRO Audiences):
3pm Friday 20th Sept - David Walliams, Kimberley Walsh & Emma Willis
noon Sunday 22nd Sept - The Christmas Special with Michael Ball, Carol Vordeman & Michelle Collins.
3pm Sunday 22nd September - Jo Brand, Charlie Condou, Denise Van Outen
6.15pm Sunday 22nd September 2013 - Mel Giedroyc, Tim Vine & Ashley Roberts”
I'm guessing it will air this autumn, then?
Originally Posted by Hassaan13:
“I still think XF should at least be aiming to finish no later than 10pm. They'll have to go ahead with a clash on the 5th.”
“I still think XF should at least be aiming to finish no later than 10pm. They'll have to go ahead with a clash on the 5th.”
Maybe commercially they make more money from a late finish than a Strictly clash?
Originally Posted by Hassaan13:
“9:30pm is hardly an issue. We've seen the late night result shows pre-2009 pulling in nearly 11m around that time.
Of course, if its a final that's a different story, but it doesn't seem very late.
10:35pm is a different story though...
We'll find out how strong Celebrity Chase is whenever and wherever it returns.”
“9:30pm is hardly an issue. We've seen the late night result shows pre-2009 pulling in nearly 11m around that time.
Of course, if its a final that's a different story, but it doesn't seem very late.
10:35pm is a different story though...
We'll find out how strong Celebrity Chase is whenever and wherever it returns.”
9.30pm is a fine time to finish. 10pm is sufficient but I do think there is a small drop off between those times. Any time after 10pm is poor.
Originally Posted by SamuelW:
“Itv HD is barely up though. 9.3pct in 2012 to 10.7pct in 2013. It nowhere near compensates for the fall in Itv SD of 76pct to 67pct, and also take into account that many viewers of the Itv Hd reach would watch some of SD anyway so arent completely different viewers. Theres still been a substantial fall overall in just 48months.”
“Itv HD is barely up though. 9.3pct in 2012 to 10.7pct in 2013. It nowhere near compensates for the fall in Itv SD of 76pct to 67pct, and also take into account that many viewers of the Itv Hd reach would watch some of SD anyway so arent completely different viewers. Theres still been a substantial fall overall in just 48months.”
The more important question is how is the complete portfolio of ITV channels performing? For example can the decline in reach for ITV be explained in part because younger viewers have migrated to ITV2 and older viewers are watching more of ITV3's content? If that's the case then the fall in reach for ITV isn't a problem. They're still completely capable of reaching the audience when they want or need to and it allows them to have more focused advertising priorities for different channels which is ultimately more effective and more lucrative.
Originally Posted by wizzywick:
“Stepping Out has one less pair of contestants due to "injury" so there was room for manouvre for ITV. What it does confirm is that ITV are indeed setting out to please Simon Cowell and to prevent his toys from being thrown from the pram!”
“Stepping Out has one less pair of contestants due to "injury" so there was room for manouvre for ITV. What it does confirm is that ITV are indeed setting out to please Simon Cowell and to prevent his toys from being thrown from the pram!”
Alternatively it proves that ITV's priority has been to protect their biggest entertainment show and in the process keep advertisers (who pay large premiums to advertise during The X Factor) happy. Or to put it another way, good business.
Originally Posted by mintbro:
“It's only 50 minutes later”
“It's only 50 minutes later”
When did 50 minutes become an only as if it were nothing? Particularly when we're talking after 9PM.
Originally Posted by C14E:
“Only because you're looking out for them.
Nearly every week on every channel is an All3Media week but that's not quite as fun a conversation, I guess.”
“Only because you're looking out for them.
Nearly every week on every channel is an All3Media week but that's not quite as fun a conversation, I guess.”
Its also not the same situation. All3Media is a large production company that serves as a parent company for smaller firms. In essence it serves as a vehicle for multiple formats from multiple producers and creators. This is not the case with SyCo it is built exclusively around the formats of one person.
Quote:
“Ultimately, it's far far more positive than negative. It's nearly 13 years since Cowell sat down in an ITV office and they have built the most lucrative production and talent relationship of the 21st century so far. Which is really what commissioning is all about.. it's not like they've been passing over on hit formats in that period.”
“Ultimately, it's far far more positive than negative. It's nearly 13 years since Cowell sat down in an ITV office and they have built the most lucrative production and talent relationship of the 21st century so far. Which is really what commissioning is all about.. it's not like they've been passing over on hit formats in that period.”
Overlooking that we don't know what they've passed on or how successful it may or may not have been I'd point out that they did kill-off the successful Pop Idol and Popstars formats in the name of The X Factor. I'm not suggesting that was a necessarily bad idea though but they were hit formats. The question might also be asked as to whether the nurturing and protection of their relationship with SyCo has perhaps come at the expense of other relationships. The time, money and energy devoted to the SyCo productions might have been more wisely spent elsewhere. Or at least some of it might have been. Its a very difficult road to walk though.
How many Syco productions have ITV aired over the last decade? I can think of four: Britain's Got Talent, The X Factor, Red or Black? and Food Glorious Food. Have there been any others? 
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“9.30pm is a fine time to finish. 10pm is sufficient but I do think there is a small drop off between those times. Any time after 10pm is poor.”
“9.30pm is a fine time to finish. 10pm is sufficient but I do think there is a small drop off between those times. Any time after 10pm is poor.”
Well, for one of the live shows last year which was finishing at 22:35, the last five minutes were averaging ~3m!
I don't think XF usually peaks around that time for a Saturday live show - it usually peaks in the middle. The TV audience does deteriorate before long.
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“How many Syco productions have ITV aired over the last decade? I can think of four: Britain's Got Talent, The X Factor, Red or Black? and Food Glorious Food. Have there been any others?”
“How many Syco productions have ITV aired over the last decade? I can think of four: Britain's Got Talent, The X Factor, Red or Black? and Food Glorious Food. Have there been any others?
”
Grease is the word
Originally Posted by Hassaan13:
“Well, for one of the live shows last year which was finishing at 22:35, the last five minutes were averaging ~3m!
I don't think XF usually peaks around that time for a Saturday live show - it usually peaks in the middle. The TV audience does deteriorate before long.”
“Well, for one of the live shows last year which was finishing at 22:35, the last five minutes were averaging ~3m!
I don't think XF usually peaks around that time for a Saturday live show - it usually peaks in the middle. The TV audience does deteriorate before long.”
That's why I think they should have scheduled it at 7.25pm and promoted the hell out of +1 to try and keep the audience up. I suppose the risk is throwing away an audience for the rest of the night as people will be searching out The X Factor alone but is that any different to the majority of autumn Saturday's for them?
Originally Posted by mintbro:
“Grease is the word”
“Grease is the word”
I forgot that one. And then when they got their hands on Andrew Lloyd Webber they tried to ape Grease is the Word instead of sticking to the format which worked relatively well for BBC One.
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“How many Syco productions have ITV aired over the last decade? I can think of four: Britain's Got Talent, The X Factor, Red or Black? and Food Glorious Food. Have there been any others?”
“How many Syco productions have ITV aired over the last decade? I can think of four: Britain's Got Talent, The X Factor, Red or Black? and Food Glorious Food. Have there been any others?
”
As mentioned Grease is the Word. Plus the celebrity version of X Factor and the ITV2 spin-offs. They've produced some specials for them (at least a Susan Boyle one) as well. I can't remember much else. ITV did have a lucky escape when they bailed on Celebrity Duets (mainly because BBC beat them to the punch with Just the Two of Us). I feel like SyCo might also have had a co-production credit on Rock Rivals despite having nothing to do with it. I think it was a 'please don't sue us' thing. They might also have had one for Tycoon since that was loosely based on American Inventor.
Originally Posted by Hassaan13:
“Well, for one of the live shows last year which was finishing at 22:35, the last five minutes were averaging ~3m!”
“Well, for one of the live shows last year which was finishing at 22:35, the last five minutes were averaging ~3m!”
Likely because the last five minutes wasn't actually The X Factor.
Originally Posted by Fudd:
“That's why I think they should have scheduled it at 7.25pm and promoted the hell out of +1 to try and keep the audience up. I suppose the risk is throwing away an audience for the rest of the night as people will be searching out The X Factor alone but is that any different to the majority of autumn Saturday's for them?”
“That's why I think they should have scheduled it at 7.25pm and promoted the hell out of +1 to try and keep the audience up. I suppose the risk is throwing away an audience for the rest of the night as people will be searching out The X Factor alone but is that any different to the majority of autumn Saturday's for them?”
They had to start before 8pm before 2009 because they had the late night result show.
It aired between 8 and 10pm for the first live show in 2009 and managed 11.3m (44%) despite an hour long clash with SCD. Its aired for over 2 hours since then.
Seeing as it looks like there'll be 12 contestants this year, they should look at how they scheduled it in 2009 as they seemed to get it right then.
Originally Posted by AlexiR:
“As mentioned Grease is the Word. Plus the celebrity version of X Factor and the ITV2 spin-offs. They've produced some specials for them (at least a Susan Boyle one) as well. I can't remember much else. ITV did have a lucky escape when they bailed on Celebrity Duets (mainly because BBC beat them to the punch with Just the Two of Us). I feel like SyCo might also have had a co-production credit on Rock Rivals despite having nothing to do with it. I think it was a 'please don't sue us' thing.”
“As mentioned Grease is the Word. Plus the celebrity version of X Factor and the ITV2 spin-offs. They've produced some specials for them (at least a Susan Boyle one) as well. I can't remember much else. ITV did have a lucky escape when they bailed on Celebrity Duets (mainly because BBC beat them to the punch with Just the Two of Us). I feel like SyCo might also have had a co-production credit on Rock Rivals despite having nothing to do with it. I think it was a 'please don't sue us' thing.”
Thanks. After watching it, I'm sure Syco were more than delighted to distance themselves from Rock Rivals!
It's not too much really then. The spin offs are linked to the main show. Without one there wouldn't be the other.
Originally Posted by Hassaan13:
“They had to start before 8pm before 2009 because they had the late night result show.
It aired between 8 and 10pm for the first live show in 2009 and managed 11.3m (44%) despite an hour long clash with SCD. Its aired for over 2 hours since then.
Seeing as it looks like there'll be 12 contestants this year, they should look at how they scheduled it in 2009 as they seemed to get it right then.”
“They had to start before 8pm before 2009 because they had the late night result show.
It aired between 8 and 10pm for the first live show in 2009 and managed 11.3m (44%) despite an hour long clash with SCD. Its aired for over 2 hours since then.
Seeing as it looks like there'll be 12 contestants this year, they should look at how they scheduled it in 2009 as they seemed to get it right then.”
2009 was also SCD's weakest season. That year the show was fragmented and messy.
Vera on Sunday's finishes at 11pm, I know that probably skews older but i don't think many children will be watching Through The Keyhole anyway.
And in regard to Samuel's ITV bashing, Magaluf Weekender wasn't even promoted at all from what i saw. Another failure by ITV bosses.
And in regard to Samuel's ITV bashing, Magaluf Weekender wasn't even promoted at all from what i saw. Another failure by ITV bosses.
Originally Posted by mintbro:
“Grease is the word”
“Grease is the word”
That Dog Can Dance.
Oh and 'Star Duets' which never aired after being commissioned. It did air in the US on Fox but it flopped.
http://www.brandrepublic.com/news/53...w-talent-show/
http://www.theguardian.com/media/org...ctlycomefactor
They also bought the formats rights to 'American Inventor'.
http://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/itv-ge...158116.article
I can't remember if this morphed into their Apprentice/Dragons den rip off 'Tycoon' with Peter Jones.
Originally Posted by Hassaan13:
“They had to start before 8pm before 2009 because they had the late night result show.
It aired between 8 and 10pm for the first live show in 2009 and managed 11.3m (44%) despite an hour long clash with SCD. Its aired for over 2 hours since then.
Seeing as it looks like there'll be 12 contestants this year, they should look at how they scheduled it in 2009 as they seemed to get it right then.”
“They had to start before 8pm before 2009 because they had the late night result show.
It aired between 8 and 10pm for the first live show in 2009 and managed 11.3m (44%) despite an hour long clash with SCD. Its aired for over 2 hours since then.
Seeing as it looks like there'll be 12 contestants this year, they should look at how they scheduled it in 2009 as they seemed to get it right then.”
In 2009 The X Factor was in the ascendancy and could hold up far better opposite Strictly than it can now. I don't think Strictly was in such a good position as it is now, either.
EDIT: wizzywick's right - it was coming off the back of series 6 which was a disaster PR wise because of a semi final fiasco where the BBC opened the phone lines even though the public couldn't save a couple from the dance off. Series 7 at least didn't include that but was still very patchy.
I'm so bored about reading about TXF in this thread. What else is left to even say that hasn't been said before? :yawn: (and this is speaking as a fan).
Anyway, back to last nights ratings. Emmerdale outrates EE yet again. I think it will stay ahead of EE for the rest of the week now. That's also its biggest rating since around Feb/March time. The 38% share too is very impressive. Almost what Corrie is getting atm.
The football did OK. Superb for GBBO yet again. Never seen it so not sure what all the fuss is about. NT continues to post good ratings and is still timeshifting very well.
Anyway, back to last nights ratings. Emmerdale outrates EE yet again. I think it will stay ahead of EE for the rest of the week now. That's also its biggest rating since around Feb/March time. The 38% share too is very impressive. Almost what Corrie is getting atm.
The football did OK. Superb for GBBO yet again. Never seen it so not sure what all the fuss is about. NT continues to post good ratings and is still timeshifting very well.
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