That's really not how PR works. PR is all about keeping the fans happy and generating positive word of mouth. If a sizeable number of fans are grumbling (again, for whatever reason) they are by definition handling the PR badly.

Blaming the fans for their reaction is the equivalent of blaming the audience rather than the marketing for bad viewing figures.

See the second part of my post #71.

The zygons we're revealed so early due to outside broadcasting meaning they would have been leaked anyway.. Shame really as that would have been an awesome surprise. People treating publicity as if it were the actual product is just a bit weird. It's just a trailer! Would a "coming soon!," teaser really satisfy peoples hunger for product. And I don't believe for a second in posters being all altruistic and selfless "ooh it's not about me,what about the general public,they won't know its on!!" BS.! We are all dying to see what they've come up with, it's just some have more patience than others. We will all be watching regardless, so the idea of releasing teasers and titbits aimed at people who are already at fever pitch with anticipation just seems a waste of time and money to me. The people they need to grab the attention of is the casual viewer. And to that end a months long stream of teasers and trailers would just be overkill in my opinion (and theirs by the look of it).

Doctor who fans ALWAYS moan! You can't keep everyone happy and by sizeable how many do you mean? And how many timeywhineys need to be getting there bow ties in a twist before they need to step in with this PR of which you speak? 20? 40? Even a hundred? Average viewing figures usually being about six to seven million..

However, if the other extremely sizeable number of fans or viewers (who will more than likely greatly outnumber the fans on various forums) don't give a tinker's curse about this (which they probably don't), then it's hardly a big deal. The aims of the PR/marketing campaign (already explained in my posts) will take precedence over the demands of those relatively small number who are so vocal.


That's missing the point somewhat, and anyway, who's blaming them? And as for (potential) "bad viewing figures", are you putting cart before horse?

No, I'm certainly not predicting bad viewing figures, I was just trying to illustrate a point, which is that you don't blame the fans for their reaction. In fact I expect great viewing figures for the special, no matter how much some people grumble.

PR and Marketing are different things, as I said earlier how they differ depends on the industry and what's being sold. There's no universal marketing manual.

In TV and Movies, in particular those with "cult" appeal, the Marketing plan is usually aimed at the general audience, and the PR will target much smaller groups of fans or specific target groups. The PR will usually kick in much earlier than the general marketing plan as it's a slower process, often based on creating positive word of mouth and general awareness.

Therefore, as I suggested if you have fans grumbling someone hasn't handled the PR well. And ultimately if the fans are grumbling, it can generate negative word of mouth.

I don't think any of that will make the slightest bit of difference to the special itself, but it can harm the brand overall and eventually start impacting on things such as toy and dvd sales.

You're absolutely right in saying this all depends on how many people are grumbling, but I'm certainly seeing this come up a lot on various sites,

Whilst I take your point, and on a wider note the overall PR (the communication of intent and expectation management) has been poor, any trailer or teaser shown widely on the BBC would, in this instance, be marketing, not 50th programme PR (see also below).

PR also applies to the wider viewer base, DW fan or not. It is not the sole preserve of the committed DW fan.


And are the numbers on these fan sites and fan forums anywhere near representative of the 7 or 8 million viewers of DW as a whole?

The simple answer would be a resounding "No". they form but a very relatively small group of fans, and a much smaller group of viewers.

I still maintain they could've shared the Comic Con trailer with the fans worldwide a week or fee afterwards. Via the website or something. Not on TV. It would have given those that care something to get excited about, it would in no way have spoiled the episode and as pointed out by others the majority of those that will make up the viewing figures wouldn't have seen it. Everyone's a winner. Does anyone seriously believe that releasing a minute long teaser two or three months before airdate would have caused such massive fatigue that people wouldn't be hyped for the episode? What rot. Of course it wouldn't. It would only have heightened expectation among some sections of fandom and in fact made the fiftieth seem like a reality for alot longer.

Also. This is Doctor Who and the BBC. Do people really think they have some superb expertly planned strategy for this? I hope so but doubt it after the shambles of the last two years.

Moffats 'taking over' statement might have been ludicrous and misjudged from the get go but a more gradual and prolonged drip feed of info and teasers (a picture of a Dalek doesn't count) might've made it slightly less so. As it is we are now weeks away from the anniversary. And it doesn't feel like it one bit.

As per my earlier posts, I personally agree on the trailer as it's primarily a marketing device. I haven't suggested that it should be released, I just have some sympathy with those who are complaining and I think something more could have been done for the UK fans.

PR can of course apply to a wider base, but it's really down to how it's being used, and what is being sold. A common generalisation about the difference is that Marketing relates to advertising, and public relations relates to the press. So whilst marketing might have produced a general magazine advert used across many publications, PR will arrange exclusive interviews and cover shoots per title. But of course there's huge overlap, more so when there's brand management involved. I have a fair amount of professional experience with PR and marketing people, and I'd swear half of them aren't sure which (or what...) they're doing!

The point about fans, is that if PR techniques are applied successfully they become a message multiplier (apologies, that sound like something I picked up from a powerpoint). They may not be many, but they are vocal and spread the word. A large part of the reason that Doctor Who is now popular in America, is because of the fans. If that's ignored or mismanaged, it can backfire.

However... since I posted on this thread earlier I've realised something. There's little criticism towards Doctor Who, most of it seem to be directed at the BBC and what those concerned were expecting for their license fee (oh, and a minority who blame Moff for everything). I'd say any brand damage from this would be to the BBC itself, not the show.

In related trailer news it must be worrying times for fans of The Avengers and Joss Whedon. He has just released a teaser trailer for the second film around 20 months before the film has released. Clearly Marvel and Whedon and Disney dont have a clue what they are doing and because of this early promotion its going to bomb at the box office. and it might be so good as well!
Oh well, thank god the BBC know what theyre doing eh?

Out of curiosity, I just checked when the first trailer for Agents of SHIELD was released.

Full length trailer was shown 14th May, over 4 months before it's TV premier. Here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3T-evQZiQo. They were releasing 30 preview clips to the media at the same time.

Quite a difference.

New product!!! Dur.....

The entire pilot was shown at comic-con.

Good thing the BBC didn't do that

SHIELD wasn't even greenlit for series until 4 days after that trailer for the pilot. It was filmed by 11th February and filming for the rest of the series didn't start until July.

Yes, that is an entirely valid comparison, isn't it? They are both aimed at exactly the same audience, and are both exactly the same medium of storytelling. And they both have multi-million dollar investment to recoup, so they both need exactly the same marketing strategy. In fact they both have exactly the same marketing budget...



A closer comparison (but still not great) would be Downton Abbey. The series 4 full trailer debuted August 30th, with the launch being August 13th. And the programme started last weekend. Ans that has commercial obligations to contend with.

So, you quickly edited your reply explaining that it was a film, in the cinema. and went straight for "dur". Thanks for raising the tone!

They arent that different at all really. Can you explain how the rationale for why its correct the BBC haven't released any teasers for the 50th yet does not apply for something like The Avengers 2? Just saying 'they are different' doesnt cut it I am afraid.

Can you explain why a trailer like The Avengers 2 one but for Doctor Who should or could or would not be able to have been released some months before the episode aired or at least weeks after Comic Con? It didnt even need any newly filmed footage.

Can you explain why it works well for The Avengers 2 but wouldnt work for Doctor Who?

Can you explain according to your estimates the exact perfect program of trailering and advertising for the fiftieth episode then? You are applying normal TV series rules. It isnt a normal TV series. It is not Downton Abbey. It is a feature length one off special in the 50th anniversary year of the show. Its funny you call them completely different mediums and yet in the last series Moffat and co went out of their way to align each episode as a mini movie. The fact the fiftieth is even more movie style leads me to ask you again...why is it so different to The Avengers and why should the strategy be any different?

Edit- The Avengers is aimed at a mass entertainment family audience and the sci-fi obsessive comic book geeks. So...just like Doctor Who then.

well we saw a trailer of man of steel in a fishing boat ,a year before the movie came out ,,nothing in that at all

we see 2 pictures ,,one a dalek on gallifrey and one picture of john hurt and 10 and 11 and we all went mad

its 7 weeks to go ,,nothing ,,,,i thought they wouldve show it when 12 was announced ...nothing

im still convinced my licence fee paid for part of that trailer and drwwho no matter what it says in the bbc's terms and conditions

I've spot checked a few US TV shows, and typical timing seems to be that they'll release clips and previews about 4 months out, and the trailer is at about 8-10 weeks. Some are earlier, some are later (but not many). This isn't very scientific it's just a couple of random samples, but generally they seem to promote things much earlier.

I'll repeat, before I'm again accused of just wanting to see the trailer, I'm not particularly bothered one way or the other myself. I'm just interested in the discussion.

Considering that the release of the trailer has to serve both the UK and US markets, it might appear that they are cutting it quite late. I'll also note regarding the timing for Downton Abbey, it doesn't air in America until January.

And it looks like US TV, its scheduling and marketing/promotion is in no way comparable to that of the UK. The UK broadcasters always seem to take a more measured approach (one which probably suits the viewership and the respective marketing budgets).

The earlier a promotional campaign starts, the longer that it has to go on for (in order to retain the interest), the greater the number of trailers required (in order to keep things fresh), and the greater the cost.

Repeat:

Considering that the release of the trailer has to serve both the UK and US markets

ha yes i started talking about something i realised I had no idea about and decided I should shut up... sage advice

And news at last -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho...d-Other-Things

First glimpse before and after Atlantis tonight.

Cureently in post-production? So the BBC doesn't have the trailer?

That would be amusing, indeed

The part I liked was


I can hear a whole bunch of angry fans exclaiming, "ABOUT TWO BLOOMIN MONTHS LATE!"

They must have listened to you and decided to rush something out.!