Just wondering what people think... would you feel at more of a disadvantage if your partner was Brendan Cole or Anton rather than Artem or Pasha for example? Same with the girls?

Anton would be a disadvantage, not because of his age, but because he can't do Latin and doesn't even try when those weeks come round. I wouldn't feel that about any other pro - Brendan seems like a very good teacher.

I think having one of the older ones would actually be better as they know what the judges want and can choreograph accordingly..... see Karen putting an illegal lift into Nicky's first routine last year....

I also think that the older ones are actual ballroom dancers first and foremost - the newer pros seem to be more all rounders from shows like SYTYCD and Burn the floor.....

Not in Brendan's case. Maybe in Anton's. It really depends what Fiona can make of him this time. He has a chance not to be a joke dancer and for her sake I hope he seizes it.

If it's not unkind, in the faster, jivier, slinkier, bouncy dances, I think Erin was maybe showing her age. Not in Ballroom, of course. Her quickstep with Rory Bremner (and his delight) is up there with Nat and Michael's axe jive as Favourite Dance Not Performed By a Personal Favourite for me. It's the joy of both of them.

There's only a four-year age gap between Brendan and Pasha, so I wouldn't think so, no.

Perhaps not age, but the fact they have been on the show longer? The pros do have certain styles that can seem a little repetitive after a while...I think I was feeling that with Vincenzo the last series or two

I like both Pasha and Brendan but because he's been there from the beginning Brendan just seems quite a bit more older. I also think they have very different styles of teaching and choreography. Tbh although I think Brendan is good and more outgoing in personality, I'm not sure he woks as well with the nervy type celebs as Pasha has.

I prefer Pasha

I agree! Except with Brendan that seems to be growing on me. Never quite warmed to Vincent as a pro, even though I always liked his choreography. Anton, yes, he is a handicap.

Female pros, ola, I think her choreography is repetitive as is his husband. But then again, Artem's (who is consistently the most creative and skilled choreographer) may feel repetitive as well in a few years time.

Do you think Artem was skilled and creative with Fern last year? I'm of the opinion, although of course we'll never know now, that Fern might have been better off with one of the older pros like Brendan or James. They might not have been able to do much more with her dance wise but they might have been able to bring her personality out more. I don't think Artem and Fern really clicked until it was too late.

I think different pros work better with certain types of celebs - Artem seems to be at his best when he gets younger celebs that have performance experience. I think Pasha is good with young celebs who have talent but need to be nurtured because of lack of confidence but it's hard to say what he'd be like with an older celeb because we haven't yet seen him with one.

It's not a question of age . Since 95% of their time is taken up teaching, it's who is the best teacher and then who has the best chemistry together .

Some of those pros are not good teachers and just because you may be a top dancer doesn't mean you also get a good teacher.

I think it's difficult to rate the pros as choreographers as there are far too many variables every year. I think Pasha is an incredible choreographer but then he's been very lucky with Chelsee and Kimberley, I might not find him quite so inspired this year if Rachel isn't such an able dancer and he has to work around that. Similarly, I found Artem really exciting in his first year on Strictly but then Kara was able to deal with very complex choreography. However, when he was partnered with Holly I thought he had some nice ideas but nothing that really wowed me, though that could have been because of their lack of chemistry or Holly's limitations as a dancer rather than because the choreography was less interesting. And some of his choreography for Fern was really boring and lacking in content but that's probably more to do with the level of ability he felt she had rather than because he's ran out of ideas.

Also, given the pros are working with amateurs, part of their skill as choreographers has to be emphasising their partners strengths and concealing their weaknesses, so with that criteria in mind you could say, for example, Robin's choreography for Lisa last year showed more skill than Brendan's choreography for Victoria though it was far more basic.

Here is an instance where hanging out in the attic pays off...
One thing I know from Pasha's early time in the US is that he was a teacher of dance for older ladies. Retirement age people. And he was good at it apparently. He saw it as creating a dream for them as well as being good for their movement. I'm not complaining about him having Rachel, who I like more the more we see of her, but I hope we will see that other side of him and his choreography at some point. Deborah or Fiona would have been fabby partners for him.

Although I am not a teacher, I feel that teaching someone with less ability (older or less flexible or less musical etc.) and seeing them progress (albeit slowly) would yield more job satisfaction, be more or a stimulating challenge and feel more rewarding than teaching someone who is young and limber.

Well I also hang about in the attic sometimes and yeah I remember reading the story about him teaching older pupils & them flourishing under his teaching, it's just as you say it would be nice to see it on strictly in the future.

Hopefully if he's back next year we'll get to see it because I think he'll almost certainly be given an older partner then, although most of us were saying he'd be given one this year lol. I think he would have been great with Deborah and Fiona, I even think he could have worked well with Vanessa. I'm glad he's with Rachel though, they look fab together but it looks like it's going to be a tougher job than with Chelsee and Kimberely. I just hope Rachel eventually does turn out to have some dance ability

I think it's far more impressive when a teacher gets good results from pupils of limited abilities.

That doesn't really surprise me, I always thought Pasha would prove to be quite similar to Vincent in that they're both kind hearted and able to instil confidence in their partners and make the Strictly experience enjoyable for them regardless of their level of ability.

Gonna miss that little guy so much this year

Me too Vincent was great with whatever type of partner he was given.

I think every single partner he had adored him. Edwina is always tweeting about how much she loves him and only a couple of weeks ago Louisa tweeted that she had spent the day with him and his family.

I think I may have worded badly my description of Artem, he is the more creative but maybe not necessarily the most skilled, as you (plural) are right that skilled choreography has to help the celebs, and sometimes Artem's doesn't.

To me Pasha's choreo is very good, but I find it that it is similar to the rest of the pros and over relies in props that do not serve a creative purpose. I don't think he is more creative than Brendan or Vicent choreo wise, while Artem adds something different, something outside the box.

Artem and Fern did not work well, but did not work that badly either, (that I can remember, as I was fairly uninterested that series). There was a lack of chemistry, certainly, but it wasn't as bad as Brendan and Victoria, which made me uncomfortable. What I think pasha has above all other male pros is likeability, he seems the most patient and comforting (unlike Artem the terminator), is not threatening or bravado (James and Brendan) and the kind of man to take home to meet the family.

I am a creative person by profession, and to me in creating a choreo as a thing of beauty is more important than teacher/chemistry abilities, and in that respect I think Artem is the most creative thinking outside the box to create beautiful pieces, but I am well aware that it is a very subjective point. That is why I didn't say the best choreographer because that would depend on all parameters, not just the creative one.

I don't think it was age with Erin I think it was disollusion. she had 2 great chances at glitter ball and lost the second by judges manipulation ,she lost her heart after that and had a series of poor dancers after that, her fitness was never at question ,she did well in the ITT competitions and her jive with Austin was fast complex and up there with the sainted Jill jive.

I don't thnk Erin ever had a problem with age or fitness but she had mentally checked out a few years ago.

I agree whole heartedly with what you say.

With the right celeb he can be sublimely inspired, last year he was not except for the last dance with Fern when she finally showed to joy she had in the Xmas special. She was down down down last year and she is known to suffer from depression perhaps the show came at a bad time for her.

I think to say he could not do better with a different older celeb is wrong, apparently he was very funny and enjoyed himself with Nancy on tour.

I don't know who is the best teacher, it depends on the celeb, some would respond to patience some to a rocket up their bum.

Aliona is as mad as a box of fronts and does mad choreography but gets good results from her celebs, maybe we are going to get a sublime trifle from Tomy.

I admit to being worried about Karen all last year Nicky stuck his bum out , this year amongst Dave's other faults his bum is sticking right out, the worrying thing is so is Karens

I like Karen she is a lovely person and so is Kevin, but nice will not produce memorable I hope he can be inspired to pull her out of her niceness

Anton just does not have him to teach Latin and I am sorry for Fiona for that

I don't know enough about Aljaz, and Jeanette and Julien need a dimmer switch, I hope they calm down and stop being so loud

Anya other than her health and safety bra has not really registered and and Iveta dances exquisetly but appears to be quite cold to her celeb
Ola , James and Brendan often get their celebs further than they really should on their dance ability

Katya was inspired when working with Gavin and actually got a dancing wardrobe to move fairly well by the end
Flavian and Vincent produced some exquist dances and got poor dancers further than they should have gone

Natalie produced sublime dances with Scott and Ricky but had a comedy genius with Michael

Kristina came be sublime both with poor dancer John and those who have the ability to do well like Jason but her Ir of increasing desperation sent both of them mad ny the end
I think that is it , but I don't see that the older pros are disadvantaged , but we will see when they have all produced a few dances and can see where old and new shine

Think that the real judges manipulation happened in the semi-final (votegate, with Len having one of his rare AS rages; underscoring the other judges). Austin was never going to beat Tom anyway (nothing could that year).

Monkseal and his spreadsheets can disprove that theory, I can't remember how exactly but if Austin had got through instead of Tom he probably would have won

The only person who. Could have beaten Tom that year was John Sergeant (at least according to the leaked voting figures). I think Erin could see the writing in the wall and that she would not get genuine contenders anymore.