[chenks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiggles

Well why not? Its a perfectly good connector. Just as good as lightning. There is actually no need for the lightning cable. Absolutely pointless.

I think what they will do instead is include lightning to usb cables in the box.

I don't for one second think the EU will reverse this based on 1 company not wanting to comply however!!

that wouldn't make it compliant to the new ruling though would it?

for the EU to allow that in the new ruling would mean the EU has backed down surely?

what happens when micro USB becomes too old and something new is needed... do we need to wait for the EU to decide what the standard should be, or should it be up to the people actually in the business of making devices to make their own decision.

[Stiggles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chenks

that wouldn't make it compliant to the new ruling though would it?

Yup, it would in a roundabout way.

Quote:

for the EU to allow that in the new ruling would mean the EU has backed down surely

I think apple if forced would change it anyway. LIke i said, there is absolutely no need for the lightning connector. Completely pointless like that other one they had.

Apple is not that influential that it could reverse a decision everybody else is sticking to!!

Quote:

what happens when micro USB becomes too old and something new is needed... do we need to wait for the EU to decide what the standard should be, or should it be up to the people actually in the business of making devices to make their own decision.

Then they would all move with the new tech i would imagine.

[flagpole]

I don't know that including a micro usb to lighting connector would be compliant. it's speculation.

it's actually about the chargers not about the the device. the idea is more that you would be able to charge another phone with an apple charger than that you would be able to charge an iPhone with another charger. so maybe you would have to include a micro usb to lighting and a lighting to micro usb adaptor.

but it will depend on the legislation.

[jaffboy151]

I agree with some posters here, the lightening charger feels weak and never feels properly seated in the device, its ridiculous on an ipad too as it feels like its going to snap off, one good thing about it is the 2 way insert which is where it does win over the micro usb, that said apple should adapt or risk a ban from the EU unless they include a free adaptor with all European phones..
Apple really need to get a grip of them selves and stop acting like they are king dong, sadly they are in decline as a company at the moment and should learn lessons from blackberry on not getting cocky, the latest addition to iso7 disabling many non apple charging cables is another arrogant move and will annoy many apple customers, this would not be an issue if apple essential accessories were not so hideously overpriced

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiggles

Wow! You love to come out as a smartarse don't you!!

Anyway, I thought you had an Ace?

I think you are missing the point. Your ace and mini 3 charger can still charge any other device on the planet other than an iphone and ipad. Seems samsung got the design right after all really surely....

I have never had a Samsung phone nor any other phone that comes with the cable attached to the charger. The Mrs S3 comes with a charger and cable separate as does my N4.

Seems to be cheaper samsung phones that come with the cable attached.

It matters not really anyway as a charger for your phone even if you could plug your ipad in wouldnt charge it anyway since it only puts out 0.7 amps and the ipad needs 2 amps. I couldn't even charge my ipad from the usb on my computer.

I'm not being a smartarse at all, just correcting your implication that samsung phones no longer come with all in one chargers.

I have an ace 2 and bought a s3 mini for my child in July. Neither came with a separate charger and cable.

I also have a 4 year old blackberry and a Nokia phone which is about 8 years old. Neither can be charged with my samsung charger.

You are right, the charger for my phone would not charge my iPad, but the charger for my iPad can charge the phones (and blackberry). I carry a single iPad charger, and a couple of cables with me, which I assume is what the EU wants.

This is a complete non argument, as apple already meet the requirement.

[flagpole]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

I'm not being a smartarse at all, just correcting your implication that samsung phones no longer come with all in one chargers.

I have an ace 2 and bought a s3 mini for my child in July. Neither came with a separate charger and cable.

I also have a 4 year old blackberry and a Nokia phone which is about 8 years old. Neither can be charged with my samsung charger.

You are right, the charger for my phone would not charge my iPad, but the charger for my iPad can charge the phones (and blackberry). I carry a single iPad charger, and a couple of cables with me, which I assume is what the EU wants.

This is a complete non argument, as apple already meet the requirement.

Only the requirement as you see it.

I find it unlikely that what the EU has in mind is that apple chargers can charge other devices but other devices can not charge apple.

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flagpole

Only the requirement as you see it.

I find it unlikely that what the EU has in mind is that apple chargers can charge other devices but other devices can not charge apple.

You will see from other posts that it is claimed other phone supplier provide a separate charger and cable, and let's face it, that is the sensible thing to do.

So in the future, if this EU reg ever gets through I would expect all other suppliers to do the sensible thing.

[Stiggles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

I'm not being a smartarse at all, just correcting your implication that samsung phones no longer come with all in one chargers.

I have an ace 2 and bought a s3 mini for my child in July. Neither came with a separate charger and cable.

I also have a 4 year old blackberry and a Nokia phone which is about 8 years old. Neither can be charged with my samsung charger.

You are right, the charger for my phone would not charge my iPad, but the charger for my iPad can charge the phones (and blackberry). I carry a single iPad charger, and a couple of cables with me, which I assume is what the EU wants.

This is a complete non argument, as apple already meet the requirement.

No they don't!!

[sancheeez]

Good.

About time they were ALL brought into line.

Bizarrely enough, Apple were one of companies pushing for micro-USB to be adopted as industry standard a couple of years back. And then they replaced one proprietary connection with another one.

When I last had a clear out in the flat I found all manner of wierd and wonderful old phone chargers which are all now completely useless. One standard for all makes way more sense. Causes less waste. Reduces costs. Increases compatibility. Etc etc.

I've never had any trouble with micro USB/ Have loads of things that use it (and an iPad Mini that, annoyingly, doesn't. Also my Note 10.1 tablet is also non-standard. Stupid.). Lightning offers little advantage over being able to put it in the device either way. If there was a 50/50 split between lightning and micro USB, then yeah, there might be an argument to be had about which one to adopt. But there isn't. Micro USB is far more established, widespread and the obvious choice.

If Apple had followed the stance THEY were putting forward a couple of years ago, they wouldn't now have this problem.

[flagpole]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

You will see from other posts that it is claimed other phone supplier provide a separate charger and cable, and let's face it, that is the sensible thing to do.

So in the future, if this EU reg ever gets through I would expect all other suppliers to do the sensible thing.

and adapt their chargers to work with iOS devices?

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flagpole

and adapt their chargers to work with iOS devices?

Why would they have to adapt? do you think the USB cable is part of the charger?

[flagpole]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

Why would they have to adapt? do you think the USB cable is part of the charger?

do you think i am stupid?

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flagpole

do you think i am stupid?

No. I'm not sure why you have just said that

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiggles

No they don't!!

The articles linked are full of speculation. I see nothing that says they are not compliant. This issue was also raised when the MoU was signed and everyone then claimed apple would have to change.

[flagpole]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

No. I'm not sure why you have just said that

Just checking. Sounded like you did.

[wakey]

As others have said the problem with micro-usb is the connector on the device. Everytime they have shrunk the charger connector on USB its become more fragile to both incorrect inserts and just wear and tear

Also its bad for innovation by forcing a standard. I don't know how correct Apple are in their claims BUT they state lightning gives better performance over both the old connector and micro-usb which if true is a step forward and a good thing. With this rule even if better options are possible no-one can ever develop them or implement them without the EU declaring the new connector the standard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaffboy151

Apple really need to get a grip of them selves and stop acting like they are king dong, sadly they are in decline as a company at the moment and should learn lessons from blackberry on not getting cocky, the latest addition to iso7 disabling many non apple charging cables is another arrogant move and will annoy many apple customers, this would not be an issue if apple essential accessories were not so hideously overpriced

Actually banning certain cables and chargers isn't a bad thing. There have been plenty of stories of things like fires and electrocutions from poor quality chargers and cables. They haven't after all blocked all cables and chargers, I have cheaper non-Apple one that work perfectly find in iOS7 its just ones that don't meet certain specifications.

I would imagine that the issues with low quality cables is the same on all other devices we just don't hear about it as Apple make better stories so its something they should all do really for both the health of the device but also safety of its users

[flagpole]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakey

Actually banning certain cables and chargers isn't a bad thing. There have been plenty of stories of things like fires and electrocutions from poor quality chargers and cables. They haven't after all blocked all cables and chargers, I have cheaper non-Apple one that work perfectly find in iOS7 its just ones that don't meet certain specifications.

I would imagine that the issues with low quality cables is the same on all other devices we just don't hear about it as Apple make better stories so its something they should all do really for both the health of the device but also safety of its users

This is absolutely not what is happening.

Apple are not blocking chargers or cables based on their quality or safety in any way at all.

They are trying to makes you use only official cables. That is all.

[Mark.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flagpole

They are trying to makes you use only official cables. That is all.

And yet you can buy third party cables for Apple devices for less than £2.

[Stiggles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark.

And yet you can buy third party cables for Apple devices for less than £2.

Of which a load now don't work.

That's what he's trying to say.

[wakey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flagpole

This is absolutely not what is happening.

Apple are not blocking chargers or cables based on their quality or safety in any way at all.

They are trying to makes you use only official cables. That is all.

If they were doing that then EVERY cable that wasn't an Apple one wouldn't work. Most 3rd party cables and chargers work fine on iOS7.

Claims its just to get people to buy high priced Apple ones is just typical anti Apple propaganda that has no basis in reality.

[Mark.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiggles

Of which a load now don't work.

That's what he's trying to say.

Only to be replaced by another load that do.

Apple will never be able to stop people using third party cables.

Indeed, they (sort of) actively encourage it by supplying micro USB to 30-pin/lightning adapters (which, too, are available 3rd party).

[jaffboy151]

No anti apple rhetoric from me, I've had there products for many years.. it's just apple are acting a bit dictorial on this front, as many companies in a dominate position do and end up alienating there userbase, plus some people seem to be confusing cables and chargers here, none apple chargers have always struggled to work as have some cheap cables been unable to carry data and only charge, but this is the 1st time I've knowing seen apple deliberately cripple a accessory completely, and I agree it has nothing to do with safety it is just to do with gaining some control over the accessory market, what next? Encoded magnetic lock mechanisms for iPads which only the official £40 apple cases will have, meaning if the £10 ones off amazon are used it will result with iPads being prevented from sleeping and going flat,
This is the sort of things they seem to be prepared to do at the moment..
My view is if they truly want to recover there market share, stop fudging around with silly ideas, give us an iPhone to truly rival the likes of the galaxy S4, an iPad mini with a decent screen and a truly isperational new ISO instead of the android/windows rip off which 7 is..

[Dan Sette]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chenks

that wouldn't make it compliant to the new ruling though would it?

for the EU to allow that in the new ruling would mean the EU has backed down surely?

Not at all. The EU has a long history of making rules, then changing them under lobbying pressure. Remember the fruit directive which defined what ingredients could go into jam.

The Portuguese from their historical North African links have made carrot jam for centuries - suddenly illegal under the new directive - lo - under pressure the carrot, for the purposes of jam making was defined as a fruit. That legislation has since been modified so the you can now have too much fruit in jam. It has to be at least 60% sugar.

A simple ruling such as a plug would be easily circumvented, and failing that could take years under appeal while it is being debated.

I happen to like the lightening connector, impossible to coo cat upside down and am VERY suspicious of any EU to standardise connections. The industry never really got over the god awful SCART - the last time it was tried.

[Gormond]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaffboy151

No anti apple rhetoric from me, I've had there products for many years.. it's just apple are acting a bit dictorial on this front, as many companies in a dominate position do and end up alienating there userbase, plus some people seem to be confusing cables and chargers here, none apple chargers have always struggled to work as have some cheap cables been unable to carry data and only charge, but this is the 1st time I've knowing seen apple deliberately cripple a accessory completely, and I agree it has nothing to do with safety it is just to do with gaining some control over the accessory market, what next? Encoded magnetic lock mechanisms for iPads which only the official £40 apple cases will have, meaning if the £10 ones off amazon are used it will result with iPads being prevented from sleeping and going flat,
This is the sort of things they seem to be prepared to do at the moment..
My view is if they truly want to recover there market share, stop fudging around with silly ideas, give us an iPhone to truly rival the likes of the galaxy S4, an iPad mini with a decent screen and a truly isperational new ISO instead of the android/windows rip off which 7 is..

Fragment (Consider revising)

[mpk81]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Sette

It has to be at least 60% sugar.

That's not true, it's a euromyth!
http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/...ntent-rules-2/

"... EU rules setting down the minimum sugar content for jams, also give member states the option to apply for an exemption to reduce this threshold. Something other EU member states have already done. So their producers have long been able to apply lower sugar content thresholds."