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Old 02-10-2013, 14:55
MinkytheDog
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The Tardis has variously rejected and threatened Clara.

Given that Clara's "destiny" was that she would save the Doctor - it's as if the Tardis was trying to stop her from achieving that.

Any thoughts?
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Old 02-10-2013, 15:14
Revenga
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It's weird, as she was the one who got the Doctor to choose that Tardis in the first place.
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Old 02-10-2013, 16:35
Thrombin
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My guess is that the TARDIS senses the impossibility of Clara in terms of the timestream but doesn't realise the reason for it. Clara makes her uneasy and, therefore, she doesn't trust her.
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Old 02-10-2013, 16:38
sebbie3000
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The Tardis has variously rejected and threatened Clara.

Given that Clara's "destiny" was that she would save the Doctor - it's as if the Tardis was trying to stop her from achieving that.

Any thoughts?
I think it's being played as petty jealousy.

The TARDIS claimed she chose the Doctor (and before TNOTD, that was still true), but if it wasn't for Clara (during TNOTD) the Doctor wouldn't have taken her... But as the TARDIS exists in both pre-GI interference and post-GI interference, she must be a little miffed that her thunder was stolen by an upstart!
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Old 02-10-2013, 16:39
Thrombin
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I think it's being played as petty jealousy.

The TARDIS claimed she chose the Doctor (and before TNOTD, that was still true), but if it wasn't for Clara (during TNOTD) the Doctor wouldn't have taken her... But as the TARDIS exists in both pre-GI interference and post-GI interference, she must be a little miffed that her thunder was stolen by an upstart!

I actually have a pet theory that one of the Clara shards actually became the consciousness of the TARDIS and that when we saw Clara suggest the TARDIS to the Doctor it was actually a holographic projection of the TARDIS doing it (thus keeping true to the Doctor's Wife where the TARDIS said that it was she who had chosen the Doctor rather than the other way around).
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Old 02-10-2013, 19:26
Satmanager
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I actually have a pet theory that one of the Clara shards actually became the consciousness of the TARDIS and that when we saw Clara suggest the TARDIS to the Doctor it was actually a holographic projection of the TARDIS doing it (thus keeping true to the Doctor's Wife where the TARDIS said that it was she who had chosen the Doctor rather than the other way around).
But could it have been something from the TARDIS that is part of Clara? But I do agree that the TARDIS is jealous of Clara because she is with the Doctor but knowing that she has to be there to save him.
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Old 02-10-2013, 20:03
Unicyclatrix
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Thanks largely to Neil Gaimans episode, the TARDIS is now more a personification of an idea than a machine. He does love giving personalities to concepts. It is unclear, to me at least, whether the Tardis knows what is going to happen at Trenzalore, and is upset about Claras role in the fall of the eleventh doctor.
it could be like captain jack, she or it knows something is wrong about them, and is rejecting them on that basis.
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Old 02-10-2013, 20:31
MinkytheDog
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Thanks largely to Neil Gaimans episode, the TARDIS is now more a personification of an idea than a machine. He does love giving personalities to concepts. It is unclear, to me at least, whether the Tardis knows what is going to happen at Trenzalore, and is upset about Claras role in the fall of the eleventh doctor.
it could be like captain jack, she or it knows something is wrong about them, and is rejecting them on that basis.
It is currently unclear exactly what happens or doesn't happen as a result of Clara and GI entering the Doctor's timeline. It's possible that Trenzalore won't happen - or that it ONLY happens because of Clara's actions. It depends on which model of time-travel you use.

It's possible that Clara CREATED the JH Doctor and he would never have existed without her - if you allow for time to be re-written after it was created.

And FFS - will someone deal with and explain the trillions of "fixed-points" that were trashed by GI without the universe cracking
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Old 02-10-2013, 20:52
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It is currently unclear exactly what happens or doesn't happen as a result of Clara and GI entering the Doctor's timeline. It's possible that Trenzalore won't happen - or that it ONLY happens because of Clara's actions. It depends on which model of time-travel you use.

It's possible that Clara CREATED the JH Doctor and he would never have existed without her - if you allow for time to be re-written after it was created.

And FFS - will someone deal with and explain the trillions of "fixed-points" that were trashed by GI without the universe cracking
BIB: Hmm. But the universe did crack. And it was said to be because the TARDIS blew up.

Maybe the TARDIS blew itself up in a fit of jealousy over Clara!


Joking aside, it's an interesting idea that the cracks and that explosion somehow link to Clara...
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Old 02-10-2013, 21:23
sandydune
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Originally Posted by Revenga
It's weird, as she was the one who got the Doctor to choose that Tardis in the first place.
Could it have been because a future Doctor asked her to, otherwise how would she know what to do to help The Doctor?
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Old 03-10-2013, 02:58
Satmanager
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Could it have been because a future Doctor asked her to, otherwise how would she know what to do to help The Doctor?
Maybe the TARDIS told her to do it? But I do like your idea too. It would explain many things about Clara and the time stream.

If the 12th Doctor has really set this up from the beginning working with the TARDIS to insert Clara's into time so that they were there to save the Doctor. Knowing that it would save the Earth, time, and the Universe.

How will this Clara take the news? Will she hate the Doctor? Forgive? Runaway? Stay? It will be a shock to her, knowing that she is just a part of a puzzle, a tool to be used by the Doctor.
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Old 03-10-2013, 07:15
RememberMeWhen
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Maybe the TARDIS told her to do it? But I do like your idea too. It would explain many things about Clara and the time stream.

If the 12th Doctor has really set this up from the beginning working with the TARDIS to insert Clara's into time so that they were there to save the Doctor. Knowing that it would save the Earth, time, and the Universe.

How will this Clara take the news? Will she hate the Doctor? Forgive? Runaway? Stay? It will be a shock to her, knowing that she is just a part of a puzzle, a tool to be used by the Doctor.
This is a good idea, but a bit sad as well. Perhaps that's why the 12th Doctor will make things 'difficult' for Clara.
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Old 03-10-2013, 09:28
MinkytheDog
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I'm getting a feeling that an entire "11th Doctor arc" is going to be sewn-up by the time he leaves.

The cracks, the weird Tardis behaviour, the Silents (who don't half look like they could have evolved from or into the faceless beggars we saw with the GI), the various "production errors" and anomolies such as Rory's badge, the stairway to heaven, the shapes on the beach and in the museum - all of it coming down to or caused by what happens next.

In effect, the entire "lifespan" of the 11th Doctor could be a closed loop where his final days actually caused his first ones.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:12
Sara_Peplow
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Think she was being loyal to river. She liked her and taught her to fly her. Only other person apart from the doctor. Still in JTTCOTT they worked together and seemed to become freinds.
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:12
sandydune
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Originally Posted by RememberMeWhen
This is a good idea, but a bit sad as well. Perhaps that's why the 12th Doctor will make things 'difficult' for Clara.
Who is to blame for The Tardis mix ups with Clara and The Doctor?

Was it the lady in the shop in the episode talked about in The Bells of St John, was Clara given the wrong information and she got through to The Doctor's Tardis instead?

Where was Clara's starting point in The Doctor and Clara Expedition?
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:52
MinkytheDog
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What's got me is that each "11" series has had one thing in common.

The first started with the preamble of meeting little Amelia and then Kissagram Amy - but after that, the whole of the series took place in one day and ended with pretty-much everything we'd seen being undone - a reset and loop.

The second started with the preamble of the invitations and the cast gathering on the beach - but after that, the whole of the series took place in one day and ended with pretty-much everything we'd seen being undone - another reset and loop.

In both cases, the final episode effectively cancelled-out all of the ealier ones and we - the audience - were taken back to the same day we started from.

And now - the last episode before the Anniversary special did the job of resetting everything and looping back to the first episode. This year - the last one for the Smith & Moffat combo - we had the reset but so far, no loop. We do, however, have another episode and we know that there's a certain amount of "back referencing" involved (not spoiling owt - just in case).

It seems in keeping for moffat to have 11's entire story end at the begining.

(And the biggest joke - if moffat is feeling REALLY cruel would be... how about if JH is the REAL 11th Doctor and MS is a "bogeyman" created as a result of that explosive 10>11 regen?)
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Old 03-10-2013, 12:32
sandydune
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Originally Posted by MinkytheDog
It seems in keeping for moffat to have 11's entire story end at the begining.
But at who's beginning and which companion?

It seems The Doctor travels so far but could he just be The Man who sits in his blue box after taking a step back for a moment, the longest moment or is he The Hero who stands and walks forward this time along with his friends to find out he wasn't to blame for The Time War.
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Old 03-10-2013, 15:49
sebbie3000
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It is currently unclear exactly what happens or doesn't happen as a result of Clara and GI entering the Doctor's timeline. It's possible that Trenzalore won't happen - or that it ONLY happens because of Clara's actions. It depends on which model of time-travel you use.

It's possible that Clara CREATED the JH Doctor and he would never have existed without her - if you allow for time to be re-written after it was created.

And FFS - will someone deal with and explain the trillions of "fixed-points" that were trashed by GI without the universe cracking
A wizard did it.
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Old 03-10-2013, 16:06
sandydune
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Who turned the world upside down?
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Old 03-10-2013, 18:51
Satmanager
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Who is to blame for The Tardis mix ups with Clara and The Doctor?

Was it the lady in the shop in the episode talked about in The Bells of St John, was Clara given the wrong information and she got through to The Doctor's Tardis instead?

Where was Clara's starting point in The Doctor and Clara Expedition?
I don't think there were any "mix ups", they were unplanned departures from the scheduled events and it was the TARDIS just having fun.

We can speculate as to the identity of the old lady in the shop but the phone number was a direct number to the TARDIS and the TARDIS was able to direct the call to the exterior phone to alert the Doctor. Using timey-wimey offsets he could travel all the way from the Abbey to the TARDIS while Clara was calling.

Clara's starting point was where ever you wish it to be. Again, it is timey-wimey and dependent upon which version of Clara you wish to discuss. Since each Doctor has been "touched" by Clara in some fashion, and if you then accept the premise that Clara was sent on this mission by a future Doctor, perhaps the 12th Doctor, then that would be the starting point.

If the 12th Doctor was the reason that Clara savior of the Doctor, there must have been a special bond between them. It would have started in the timestream with the 11th Doctor, perhaps building during the "Day of the Doctor" Special, and but coming together during the Christmas Special and seeing the regeneration to the 12th Doctor. The regeneration won't shock her as it has other companions as she knows about the previous Doctors but it is a loss.
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Old 03-10-2013, 19:24
RememberMeWhen
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Who is to blame for The Tardis mix ups with Clara and The Doctor?

Was it the lady in the shop in the episode talked about in The Bells of St John, was Clara given the wrong information and she got through to The Doctor's Tardis instead?

Where was Clara's starting point in The Doctor and Clara Expedition?
Oh god, this is a lot more confusing than I originally thought.
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Old 04-10-2013, 00:27
sebbie3000
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Think she was being loyal to river. She liked her and taught her to fly her. Only other person apart from the doctor. Still in JTTCOTT they worked together and seemed to become freinds.
Anyone can fly the TARDIS. All the companions have so far... River only flies it better.
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Old 04-10-2013, 02:19
Satmanager
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Anyone can fly the TARDIS. All the companions have so far... River only flies it better.
I'm not sure that disaster of teaching her how to fly the TARDIS in basic mode would count as flying the TARDIS. More on the line of a crash landing.

Still Clara and the Doctor did come together at the end. Too bad she forgot all about it - at least until being reminded at Trenzalore in the bottom of the TARDIS/Crypt. That was the spark that reminded her that she was the "Impossible Girl", along with the picture of her in Victorian London that the "brats" showed her. Everything was now tied together for Clara. She was the "Impossible Girl". The girl who saves the Doctor - led there by the TARDIS.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:50
MinkytheDog
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Is the Clara that the 11th Doctor "rescued" from the wasteland THE Clara - or just one of HIS Clara (one specifically "created" for HIS Doctor)?

As far as I can tell, there were a whole load of different "Clara's" (not the same one being immortal, for example) - and each Doctor had (or could have had, if necessary) more than one Clara.

The 11th Doctor NEEDED at least three Clara's (so far) - the Dalek, the Victorian nanny and the 20th century nanny (that one being the original and genuine Clara - the source material, as it were)

It seems to me that the Clara we were seeing at the end of the last episode was a VERSION of the 20th century Clara - the original Clara having been destroyed but it could also be that original Clara and she somehow survived the process.

Either way, why was she - and specifically SHE - sent to meet JH's "Doctor"? All of the other Doctor's - including 11 - had one or more "Clara's" of their own - but for some reason, 11 and JH share a Clara - the same one.

If JH IS "a Doctor"- why wasn't he sent one or more Clara's to stop him making whatever bad decision puts him in purgatory?

Or could it actually be that the exact opposite is true and JH's "Doctor" was CREATED BY Clara's messing around with the Doctor's timeline?
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:37
sandydune
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Originally Posted by RememberMeWhen
Oh god, this is a lot more confusing than I originally thought.
Sorry I didn't mean to confuse you, just wondering.
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