Qualcomm, iphone 64 bit just a marketing gimmick!!

IvanIV · 02-10-2013, 22:13

64bit processors have 64bit wide registers, can perform 64bit arithmetic natively, can address more than 4GB memory. The generated code is slightly bigger. Slowly our mobile phones will become more powerful than computers on our desks. Does it make sense? I am not sure.

Zack06 · 02-10-2013, 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

Anyone interested in reading a fairly comprehensive article about whether or not its just a gimmick, have a read of this article:

Article link

I don't think calling it a gimmick is totally wrong. At this stage it's easy to see why people think it is. Touting technology which will have little benefit on today's hardware as "revolutionary" does seem a bit like a fad, even if it ultimately isn't.

The article you posted seems to agree.

Quote:

The simple fact of moving to 64-bit does little. It makes for slightly faster computations in some cases, somewhat higher memory usage for most programs, and makes certain programming techniques more viable. Overall, it's not hugely significant.

kidspud · 02-10-2013, 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zack06

I don't think calling it a gimmick is totally wrong. At this stage it's easy to see why people think it is. Touting technology which will have little benefit on today's hardware as "revolutionary" does seem a bit like a fad, even if it ultimately isn't.

The article you posted seems to agree.

Wow, with selective quoting like that, you should think of working in the press.

You forgot to include the next sentence.

Quote:

The ARM architecture changed a bunch of other things in its transition to 64-bit. An increased number of registers and a revised, streamlined instruction set make for a nice performance gain over 32-bit ARM

KIIS102 · 02-10-2013, 22:27

Starting with Siri, it's been marketing gimmicks every year.

Siri followed by a little taller and now the fingerprint thing/64bit chip. None of this has or will take off. I'm sure iMessaging has been a huge success though, I'd imagine pretty much everyone uses it but it wasn't pushed as much as the other things.

Let's see what next year brings, maybe we'll get a new iPhone that's a little taller with a 64bit chip *mindblown*.

xreyuk123 · 02-10-2013, 23:16

64 bit is obviously the next step forward, but he is right, the users will see no benefit from it until large amounts memory are required.

Roush · 02-10-2013, 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zack06

Android is based on Linux. Underneath, it is capable of 64-bit and has been for some time.

Are you sure?

ARMv8 support was indeed added to the Linux kernel about 10 months ago with the 3.7 kernel, but Android 4.3 is only running on a 3.4 kernel, so no 64-bit ARMv8 support at all unfortunately.

No doubt Google have a 64-bit capable kernel (and Android framework, one would hope) in development / testing, but I wonder how far away it is...

Zack06 · 02-10-2013, 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roush

Are you sure?

ARMv8 support was indeed added to the Linux kernel about 10 months ago with the 3.7 kernel, but Android 4.3 is only running on a 3.4 kernel, so no 64-bit ARMv8 support at all unfortunately.

No doubt Google have a 64-bit capable kernel (and Android framework, one would hope) in development / testing, but I wonder how far away it is...

I wasn't talking about it running on actual hardware, as ARM64 is still new. What I meant was that the OS itself is equipped to deal with 64-bit already and has been since the debut release. Intel is already working on their own 64-bit hardware for Android, as the software itself does not need to be overhauled to handle 64-bit as iOS was.

I imagine that once the hardware support/framework is in place, it will be a fairly quick transition for Android.

My name's Scott · 03-10-2013, 00:15

It's so nice that iPhone 5S users have a 64 bit chip they'll never be able to use in their phones. A bit like an appendix really. Useless but we all have them.

Dark 1 · 03-10-2013, 00:31

The universal truth of tech forum debate: Whatever feature your favourite has that others don't, is of vital importance, whereas whatever feature others have that your favourite doesn't, is pointless fluff.

Zack06 · 03-10-2013, 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark 1

The universal truth of tech forum debate: Whatever feature your favourite has that others don't, is of vital importance, whereas whatever feature others have that your favourite doesn't, is pointless fluff.

Did anyone actually claim it was pointless though? Just that it was precipitous of Apple to claim it as a revolutionary feature, when in fact, the technology is barely even being taken advantage of on their device.

calico_pie · 03-10-2013, 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zack06

I don't think calling it a gimmick is totally wrong.

The article you posted seems to agree.

Does it?

You: "I don't think calling it a gimmick is totally wrong."

The article: "The "64-bit" A7 is not just a marketing gimmick."

calico_pie · 03-10-2013, 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zack06

Did anyone actually claim it was pointless though? Just that it was precipitous of Apple to claim it as a revolutionary feature, when in fact, the technology is barely even being taken advantage of on their device.

Yes.

Post 6:

"64bit is useless and pointless on any machine with less than 4gb of memory."

Zack06 · 03-10-2013, 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

Yes.

Post 6:

"64bit is useless and pointless on any machine with less than 4gb of memory."

I don't think that post was saying that 64-bit itself was pointless, which is what I was asking, but that 64-bit with less than 4GB RAM is pointless, in which there is a valid point.

Zack06 · 03-10-2013, 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

Does it?

You: "I don't think calling it a gimmick is totally wrong."

The article: "The "64-bit" A7 is not just a marketing gimmick."

The article: neither is it an amazing breakthrough that enables a new class of applications

The technology itself is not a gimmick, but touting it as "revolutionary" at this stage in the game, certainly makes it appear so, a notion the article seems to support.

calico_pie · 03-10-2013, 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zack06

I don't think that post was saying that 64-bit itself was pointless, which is what I was asking, but that 64-bit with less than 4GB RAM is pointless, in which there is a valid point.

So is 64bit on the new iPhone is pointless or not?

alanwarwic · 03-10-2013, 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by springy

But moving to 64bit is all good news in my opinion.

Making stuff obsolete is good news?

alan1302 · 03-10-2013, 12:22

It's a marketing gimmick says Qualcomm - who are launching theirs next year...no doubt they will think it's awesome next year!

I think we have to move on to 64 bit processors for phones at one time or another and I expect it will help developers to get started on them now for iOS rather than waiting a year or two whilst everyone else catches up.

IvanIV · 03-10-2013, 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan1302

It's a marketing gimmick says Qualcomm - who are launching theirs next year...no doubt they will think it's awesome next year!

I think we have to move on to 64 bit processors for phones at one time or another and I expect it will help developers to get started on them now for iOS rather than waiting a year or two whilst everyone else catches up.

They will use those in servers though, not smartphones. 64bit processor for a server is no gimmick.

swordman · 03-10-2013, 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

So is 64bit on the new iPhone is pointless or not?

According to qualcomm yes it is

alan1302 · 03-10-2013, 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by IvanIV

They will use those in servers though, not smartphones. 64bit processor for a server is no gimmick.

Says in the article that Qualcomm are not getting into servers - but ARM 64bit chips will be.

I would be very surprised if Qualcomm don't introduce a 64bit mobile chip next year. Now that Apple have and Samsung have said that they will be Qualcomm would be getting overtaken if they didn't.

Stiggles · 03-10-2013, 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

So is 64bit on the new iPhone is pointless or not?

Yes, yes it is.

calico_pie · 03-10-2013, 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiggles

Yes, yes it is.

So the guy who wrote that article has it wrong?

alanwarwic · 03-10-2013, 16:50

I'd suggest OS/X could be moving to ARM.
Maybe the 1st step will be iMacs.

Whilst customers might have wanted a better screen I can see some possible long term planning going on here.

Zack06 · 03-10-2013, 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

So the guy who wrote that article has it wrong?

If you actually read the article, you would find that it was talking about the benefits of 64-bit on ARM in general, and the potential it has.

Apple has not achieved the full capability of 64-bit. I don't even think it's possible to do so with even the most advanced computing hardware, let alone a mobile device. Whilst the article detailed some of the improvements brought by the change and the A7 chip, it also clearly states in the conclusion that "64-bit does little" at this stage.

Given that the 5S only has 1GB of RAM, it seems a bit precipitous to change the system to 64-bit, when 32-bit architecture can address 1GB of RAM without any issues, as well as 32-bit apps being smaller and more power efficient in the case of a mobile device. 64-bit definitely gives speed improvements, but it requires more memory, and a larger battery to get more worthwhile benefits, none of which have been realised on the 5S.

calico_pie · 03-10-2013, 16:57

I'm not disputing that it "does little".

I am questioning whether or not it is a pointless gimmick.

02-10-2013, 22:13	#26
IvanIV Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 25,199	64bit processors have 64bit wide registers, can perform 64bit arithmetic natively, can address more than 4GB memory. The generated code is slightly bigger. Slowly our mobile phones will become more powerful than computers on our desks. Does it make sense? I am not sure.

02-10-2013, 22:13	#27
Zack06 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 27,438	Quote: Originally Posted by calico_pie Anyone interested in reading a fairly comprehensive article about whether or not its just a gimmick, have a read of this article: Article link I don't think calling it a gimmick is totally wrong. At this stage it's easy to see why people think it is. Touting technology which will have little benefit on today's hardware as "revolutionary" does seem a bit like a fad, even if it ultimately isn't. The article you posted seems to agree. Quote: The simple fact of moving to 64-bit does little. It makes for slightly faster computations in some cases, somewhat higher memory usage for most programs, and makes certain programming techniques more viable. Overall, it's not hugely significant.

02-10-2013, 22:21	#28
kidspud Forum Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 11,501	Quote: Originally Posted by Zack06 I don't think calling it a gimmick is totally wrong. At this stage it's easy to see why people think it is. Touting technology which will have little benefit on today's hardware as "revolutionary" does seem a bit like a fad, even if it ultimately isn't. The article you posted seems to agree. Wow, with selective quoting like that, you should think of working in the press. You forgot to include the next sentence. Quote: The ARM architecture changed a bunch of other things in its transition to 64-bit. An increased number of registers and a revised, streamlined instruction set make for a nice performance gain over 32-bit ARM

02-10-2013, 22:27	#29
KIIS102 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Coventry Posts: 6,992	Starting with Siri, it's been marketing gimmicks every year. Siri followed by a little taller and now the fingerprint thing/64bit chip. None of this has or will take off. I'm sure iMessaging has been a huge success though, I'd imagine pretty much everyone uses it but it wasn't pushed as much as the other things. Let's see what next year brings, maybe we'll get a new iPhone that's a little taller with a 64bit chip mindblown.

02-10-2013, 23:16	#30
xreyuk123 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 509	64 bit is obviously the next step forward, but he is right, the users will see no benefit from it until large amounts memory are required.

02-10-2013, 23:30	#31
Roush Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 2,938	Quote: Originally Posted by Zack06 Android is based on Linux. Underneath, it is capable of 64-bit and has been for some time. Are you sure? ARMv8 support was indeed added to the Linux kernel about 10 months ago with the 3.7 kernel, but Android 4.3 is only running on a 3.4 kernel, so no 64-bit ARMv8 support at all unfortunately. No doubt Google have a 64-bit capable kernel (and Android framework, one would hope) in development / testing, but I wonder how far away it is...

02-10-2013, 23:42	#32
Zack06 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 27,438	Quote: Originally Posted by Roush Are you sure? ARMv8 support was indeed added to the Linux kernel about 10 months ago with the 3.7 kernel, but Android 4.3 is only running on a 3.4 kernel, so no 64-bit ARMv8 support at all unfortunately. No doubt Google have a 64-bit capable kernel (and Android framework, one would hope) in development / testing, but I wonder how far away it is... I wasn't talking about it running on actual hardware, as ARM64 is still new. What I meant was that the OS itself is equipped to deal with 64-bit already and has been since the debut release. Intel is already working on their own 64-bit hardware for Android, as the software itself does not need to be overhauled to handle 64-bit as iOS was. I imagine that once the hardware support/framework is in place, it will be a fairly quick transition for Android.

03-10-2013, 00:15	#33
My name's Scott Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Homerton, London, E9 Posts: 1,742	It's so nice that iPhone 5S users have a 64 bit chip they'll never be able to use in their phones. A bit like an appendix really. Useless but we all have them.

03-10-2013, 00:31	#34
Dark 1 Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Nottingham Posts: 3,975	The universal truth of tech forum debate: Whatever feature your favourite has that others don't, is of vital importance, whereas whatever feature others have that your favourite doesn't, is pointless fluff.

03-10-2013, 00:44	#35
Zack06 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 27,438	Quote: Originally Posted by Dark 1 The universal truth of tech forum debate: Whatever feature your favourite has that others don't, is of vital importance, whereas whatever feature others have that your favourite doesn't, is pointless fluff. Did anyone actually claim it was pointless though? Just that it was precipitous of Apple to claim it as a revolutionary feature, when in fact, the technology is barely even being taken advantage of on their device.

03-10-2013, 10:50	#36
calico_pie Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 9,428	Quote: Originally Posted by Zack06 I don't think calling it a gimmick is totally wrong. The article you posted seems to agree. Does it? You: "I don't think calling it a gimmick is totally wrong." The article: "The "64-bit" A7 is not just a marketing gimmick."

03-10-2013, 10:52	#37
calico_pie Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 9,428	Quote: Originally Posted by Zack06 Did anyone actually claim it was pointless though? Just that it was precipitous of Apple to claim it as a revolutionary feature, when in fact, the technology is barely even being taken advantage of on their device. Yes. Post 6: "64bit is useless and pointless on any machine with less than 4gb of memory."

03-10-2013, 11:17	#38
Zack06 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 27,438	Quote: Originally Posted by calico_pie Yes. Post 6: "64bit is useless and pointless on any machine with less than 4gb of memory." I don't think that post was saying that 64-bit itself was pointless, which is what I was asking, but that 64-bit with less than 4GB RAM is pointless, in which there is a valid point.

03-10-2013, 11:21	#39
Zack06 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 27,438	Quote: Originally Posted by calico_pie Does it? You: "I don't think calling it a gimmick is totally wrong." The article: "The "64-bit" A7 is not just a marketing gimmick." The article: neither is it an amazing breakthrough that enables a new class of applications The technology itself is not a gimmick, but touting it as "revolutionary" at this stage in the game, certainly makes it appear so, a notion the article seems to support.

03-10-2013, 11:35	#40
calico_pie Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 9,428	Quote: Originally Posted by Zack06 I don't think that post was saying that 64-bit itself was pointless, which is what I was asking, but that 64-bit with less than 4GB RAM is pointless, in which there is a valid point. So is 64bit on the new iPhone is pointless or not?

03-10-2013, 11:47	#41
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: the wild world web Posts: 28,132	Quote: Originally Posted by springy But moving to 64bit is all good news in my opinion. Making stuff obsolete is good news?

03-10-2013, 12:22	#42
alan1302 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: West Yorks Posts: 6,180	It's a marketing gimmick says Qualcomm - who are launching theirs next year...no doubt they will think it's awesome next year! I think we have to move on to 64 bit processors for phones at one time or another and I expect it will help developers to get started on them now for iOS rather than waiting a year or two whilst everyone else catches up.

03-10-2013, 13:13	#43
IvanIV Forum Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 25,199	Quote: Originally Posted by alan1302 It's a marketing gimmick says Qualcomm - who are launching theirs next year...no doubt they will think it's awesome next year! I think we have to move on to 64 bit processors for phones at one time or another and I expect it will help developers to get started on them now for iOS rather than waiting a year or two whilst everyone else catches up. They will use those in servers though, not smartphones. 64bit processor for a server is no gimmick.

03-10-2013, 13:19	#44
swordman Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 6,342	Quote: Originally Posted by calico_pie So is 64bit on the new iPhone is pointless or not? According to qualcomm yes it is

03-10-2013, 14:23	#45
alan1302 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: West Yorks Posts: 6,180	Quote: Originally Posted by IvanIV They will use those in servers though, not smartphones. 64bit processor for a server is no gimmick. Says in the article that Qualcomm are not getting into servers - but ARM 64bit chips will be. I would be very surprised if Qualcomm don't introduce a 64bit mobile chip next year. Now that Apple have and Samsung have said that they will be Qualcomm would be getting overtaken if they didn't.

DS Forums

Qualcomm, iphone 64 bit just a marketing gimmick!!

03-10-2013, 16:36	#46
Stiggles Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Dundee, Scotland Posts: 9,293	Quote: Originally Posted by calico_pie So is 64bit on the new iPhone is pointless or not? Yes, yes it is.

03-10-2013, 16:44	#47
calico_pie Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 9,428	Quote: Originally Posted by Stiggles Yes, yes it is. So the guy who wrote that article has it wrong?

03-10-2013, 16:50	#48
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: the wild world web Posts: 28,132	I'd suggest OS/X could be moving to ARM. Maybe the 1st step will be iMacs. Whilst customers might have wanted a better screen I can see some possible long term planning going on here.

03-10-2013, 16:53	#49
Zack06 Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 27,438	Quote: Originally Posted by calico_pie So the guy who wrote that article has it wrong? If you actually read the article, you would find that it was talking about the benefits of 64-bit on ARM in general, and the potential it has. Apple has not achieved the full capability of 64-bit. I don't even think it's possible to do so with even the most advanced computing hardware, let alone a mobile device. Whilst the article detailed some of the improvements brought by the change and the A7 chip, it also clearly states in the conclusion that "64-bit does little" at this stage. Given that the 5S only has 1GB of RAM, it seems a bit precipitous to change the system to 64-bit, when 32-bit architecture can address 1GB of RAM without any issues, as well as 32-bit apps being smaller and more power efficient in the case of a mobile device. 64-bit definitely gives speed improvements, but it requires more memory, and a larger battery to get more worthwhile benefits, none of which have been realised on the 5S.

03-10-2013, 16:57	#50
calico_pie Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 9,428	I'm not disputing that it "does little". I am questioning whether or not it is a pointless gimmick.