[Zack06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

I'm not disputing that it "does little".

I am questioning whether or not it is a pointless gimmick.

I'm questioning whether you read what people respond to you. Several other posters have already said that they feel 64-bit is pointless on current iPhone hardware.

The 5S only has 1GB RAM. Besides a minor speed bump, there are far more drawbacks, including increased power consumption and larger sized apps. Considering 32-bit architecture can address 1GB of RAM perfectly well, it seems an awful lot of trouble to go to for just a small increase in speed. I don't know how many times this needs to be repeated.

This is also why many are questioning the motives behind Apple moving to iOS 64-bit right now. I think it's because there is a distinct lack of unique selling points on the 5S, hence why it has also sold less than its predecessor.

[kidspud]

It's probably best to leave these sort of questions to experts.

Despite attempts to selectively edit the article, the link provided seem to give some very good reasons that 64bit is a good move and clearly states that references to addressable RAM is not only misleading, but shows a lack of understanding.

I also wonder why Samsung and Qualcomm who have not released a phone with over 4gb RAM are also talking about releasing 64bit architectures.

It still seems a sensible long term planning move which according to the article, also gives real benefits now.

[swordman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

So the guy who wrote that article has it wrong?

Who is he and are you saying he has it exactly right then are you?

[Zack06]

Even though some prefer to gloss over the reality of the situation, as I have said, 64-bit does, at this current moment in time, provide little benefit on a mobile device. The amount of RAM on-board and its importance can't just be disregarded for the sake of the argument or to suit a certain view point. It is a real factor in increasing the potential of 64-bit architecture.

Many reviewers have also picked up on the fact that despite having a significantly larger battery, the iPhone 5S has the same or sometimes worse battery life than its predecessor. Here's a quote from The Verge:

Quote:

But what the 5S may have gained in capacity it gives back in consumption, and battery life here seems to be almost exactly what we’ve seen on the 5 — it’ll last you a full day, but nothing more, and often less if you have an itchy Netflix finger or get lots of email and other notifications.

The drawbacks of 64-bit architecture are very real, and I just don't think mobile systems are ready for it. I suppose Samsung and other Android hardware partners could make more use of the technology, seeing as though Android has been 64-bit ready since day 1, and Android devices tend to be larger and more powerful. The Galaxy S4 has a significantly larger battery than the iPhone 5S for example, so the drawbacks might not be so apparent, especially with Android 4.4 focusing on efficiency.

But even so, the drawbacks of 64-bit are very real concerns on a mobile device. While it's nice that Apple have at least tried to innovate this time around, and its attempts will be fruitful later on down the line, for right now, 64-bit is jumping the gun and is seemingly being used as a product differentiator rather than to provide any real benefit to the consumer at this stage.

[Stiggles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

So the guy who wrote that article has it wrong?

What guy? Are we supposed to know this guy?

Why is his article correct and everyone else wrong. This is your problem. You find an article that says what you want it to, then latch on to it rubbishing everything else!

[BeethovensPiano]

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

Anyone interested in reading a fairly comprehensive article about whether or not its just a gimmick, have a read of this article:

Article link

But you'll spoil the android folks fun.

[Stiggles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

I'm not disputing that it "does little".

I am questioning whether or not it is a pointless gimmick.

Of course it is if it does nothing.

[swordman]

Does anyone know this guy then? does he work for ARM, Intel, Nvidia anyone know?

just wondering why we are doubting the word of Anand Chandrasekher, senior vice president and chief marketing officer at Qualcomm who previously ran Intel's mobile platforms group.

I assume this guys credentials are pretty good if so.

[Stiggles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

It's probably best to leave these sort of questions to experts.

Despite attempts to selectively edit the article, the link provided seem to give some very good reasons that 64bit is a good move and clearly states that references to addressable RAM is not only misleading, but shows a lack of understanding.

I also wonder why Samsung and Qualcomm who have not released a phone with over 4gb RAM are also talking about releasing 64bit architectures.

It still seems a sensible long term planning move which according to the article, also gives real benefits now.

Hang on.....

So you accept this article written by some armchair 'expert', yet dismiss Qualcomm's statement that in its current form in the iphone its pointless! You know, someone who actually knows what they are talking about and industry leading!!

Also, why question samsung on something they have yet to release? Apple stuck a 64bit cpu in a phone with 1gb ram. If you knew anything about computer architecture you would know this cannot be used properly or efficiently in the iphone based on the amount of ram they have included. Its absolutely pointless it being there.

Samsung when the phone is released soon i assume will have the correct amount of ram in it. The note 3 has 3Gb of ram in it now, so its safe to say when the S5 or note 4 is released then yes it will have the correct amount enabling the CPU to be used properly.

[Stiggles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by swordman

Does anyone know this guy then? does he work for ARM, Intel, Nvidia anyone know?

just wondering why we are doubting the word of Anand Chandrasekher, senior vice president and chief marketing officer at Qualcomm who previously ran Intel's mobile platforms group.

I assume this guys credentials are pretty good if so.

Because it doesn't fit in with the apple folks that the thing is a gimmick!!

[swordman]

Not just me then that has never heard of Mike Ash international man of computer mystery.

perhaps I will pop a blog up you can quote from on here that the iphone is sending death rays into space to open a worm hole.

For now though maybe I think I will just side with the slightly more reputable Qualcomm, who obviously come out with incorrect statements just to prove at point

[calico_pie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiggles

What guy? Are we supposed to know this guy?

Why is his article correct and everyone else wrong. This is your problem. You find an article that says what you want it to, then latch on to it rubbishing everything else!

Not so much.

"Everything else" in this case amounts to numerous people reducing it to the same thing. That it needs 4GB of RAM to take full advantage.

It's not that the article "says what I want it to".

It's that the article seems to go into much more depth than that.

[calico_pie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by swordman

Not just me then that has never heard of Mike Ash international man of computer mystery.

perhaps I will pop a blog up you can quote from on here that the iphone is sending death rays into space to open a worm hole.

For now though maybe I think I will just side with the slightly more reputable Qualcomm, who obviously come out with incorrect statements just to prove at point

I guess the usual sarcasm is easier than saying what is wrong in the article, or why you disagree.

Just the same old same old really.

[Stiggles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

Not so much.

"Everything else" in this case amounts to numerous people reducing it to the same thing. That it needs 4GB of RAM to take full advantage.

It's not that the article "says what I want it to".

It's that the article seems to go into much more depth than that.

It does indeed go into depth if you can understand it. However, that doesn't take away the fact it cannot be used fully in its current form in this iphone.

Thus its pointless it being there.

[swordman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

I guess the usual sarcasm is easier than saying what is wrong in the article, or why you disagree.
Just the same old same old really.

Same old facts and truth yes

64 bit processors are not really any faster as of themselves so without the right environment there is no benefit in them and the iphone doesn't provide that environment.

As the proper expert says:

"Predominantly... you need it for memory addressability beyond 4GB. That's it. You don't really need it for performance".

Perhaps for the iphone 6 they can pop in a 128 bit cpu ...
I think we can put these apple claims in the same box as their "A7 brings desktop-style computing to the smartphone"

So who is this guy anyway you haven't answered.

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiggles

Hang on.....

So you accept this article written by some armchair 'expert', yet dismiss Qualcomm's statement that in its current form in the iphone its pointless! You know, someone who actually knows what they are talking about and industry leading!!

Also, why question samsung on something they have yet to release? Apple stuck a 64bit cpu in a phone with 1gb ram. If you knew anything about computer architecture you would know this cannot be used properly or efficiently in the iphone based on the amount of ram they have included. Its absolutely pointless it being there.

Samsung when the phone is released soon i assume will have the correct amount of ram in it. The note 3 has 3Gb of ram in it now, so its safe to say when the S5 or note 4 is released then yes it will have the correct amount enabling the CPU to be used properly.

I haven't ignored either view. You have one detailing the advantages and giving a good explaination of why he thinks that, and a company saying it is pointless and then talking about releasing one themselves.

I look forward to the phone with the "correct amount of RAM in it" even though the article makes quite clear that the RAM argument shows a lack of understanding.

[swordman]

So are you doubting or questioning the the view Qualcomm because of an article from ........ actually who is it again

[swordman]

mystery solved he is another apple kook, this just gets better and better.

click on his name and he has a picture of a rocket, talks about his gliders and ................

His MAC blog no bias there then

Wow looks like CP has found another of his mates to support him, what a star.

Apple supporters on here are just great

[calico_pie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiggles

It does indeed go into depth if you can understand it. However, that doesn't take away the fact it cannot be used fully in its current form in this iphone.

Thus its pointless it being there.

So the only options are "used fully" and "pointless" then?

[Zack06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidspud

I haven't ignored either view. You have one detailing the advantages and giving a good explaination of why he thinks that, and a company saying it is pointless and then talking about releasing one themselves.

I look forward to the phone with the "correct amount of RAM in it" even though the article makes quite clear that the RAM argument shows a lack of understanding.

Clearly, you didn't read the article.

Quote:

The increased pointer size comes with a substantial downside: otherwise-identical programs will use more memory, perhaps a lot more, when running on a 64-bit CPU. Pointers have to be stored in memory as well, and each pointer takes twice the amount of memory. Pointers are really common in most programs, so that can make a substantial difference. Increased memory usage can put more pressure on caches, causing reduced performance.

In short: 64-bit can increase performance for certain types of code, and makes certain programming techniques, like memory mapped files, more viable. However, it can also decrease performance due to increased memory usage.

So basically, the argument that 64-bit architecture needs more RAM to work efficiently, is not wrong at all.

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by swordman

So are you doubting or questioning the the view Qualcomm because of an article from ........ actually who is it again

Someone who clearly articulated the reasoning for their views. If you want to stand up and declare yourself as more knowledgable, go ahead, provide a link to a single article you have written.

If you don't like his view, here is another one for you

http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/12/47...than-you-think

[calico_pie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by swordman

mystery solved he is another apple kook, this just gets better and better.

click on his name and he has a picture of a rocket, talks about his gliders and ................

His MAC blog no bias there then

Wow looks like CP has found another of his mates to support him, what a star

Thing is, accusing him of bias isn't really much of an argument.

Presumably that's all you've got though.

Didn't seen biased to me. It's not as though he was going on about how amazing it was, and how incredibly beneficial it will be.

[kidspud]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zack06

Clearly, you didn't read the article.



So basically, the argument that 64-bit architecture needs more RAM to work efficiently, is not wrong at all.

Yes, the article clearly states there are positives and negatives. It doesn't say it is pointless or a bad move.

[calico_pie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zack06

Clearly, you didn't read the article.

So basically, the argument that 64-bit architecture needs more RAM to work efficiently, is not wrong at all.

The argument isn't that it doesn't need more RAM to work more efficiently though.

The argument is that it's not a pointless gimmick with zero benefit.

[swordman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

Thing is, accusing him of bias isn't really much of an argument.

Presumably that's all you've goth though.

Didn't seen biased to me. It's not as though he was going on about how amazing it was, and how incredibly beneficial it will be.

No actually I have

"I know there's a lot of noise because Apple did [64-bit] on their A7," said Anand Chandrasekher, senior vice president and chief marketing officer at Qualcomm, in an interview. "I think they are doing a marketing gimmick. There's zero benefit a consumer gets from that."

of course this company always goes out on a limb and says things that are incorrect does their reputation a world of good.


I will take that over some MAC blogger I think cheers