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Have Simon Cowell and Louis Walsh f**ked up music?


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Old 06-10-2013, 22:06
FernandoM
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Last Friday, Sinead O'Connor was interviewed by Irish presenter, Ryan Tubirdy, to talk about today's state of the music industry. The interview was largely due to the singer's online spat with Miley Cyrus. However, O'Connor avoided speaking directly about Cyrus at all costs. Instead, she preferred to talk about how genuine musicians struggle in today's industry due to the likes of Cowell and Walsh who have manipulated the charts and "murdered music."

Do you agree with her that the music moguls and shows like X Factor have destroyed the music industry?

I am deliberately posting this in the music section of the forum, as I am sure that if I posted it in the X Factor section, the answers would be quite different.
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Old 06-10-2013, 22:14
Residents Fan
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The alt-rock stuff I usually listen to hasn't been affected by these two. Although it does disappoint me that a lot of the popular music of today is so controlled by them, and how
the acts behave on their pantomime "reality" shows is
more important then whether they can actually sing.
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Old 06-10-2013, 22:34
LandslideBrad
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No. If you don't like mainstream pop music, it's not hard to find artists of different genres. Most "genuine musicians" make more money live than they do from releasing singles and albums anyway.
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Old 06-10-2013, 23:31
iseloid
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No, not really. They are the reason that major labels are around.

If you enter a major, you know what they're all about. Money.
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Old 06-10-2013, 23:46
DRAGON LANCE
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Yes and no. Yes they've degenerated the music biz and given kids a false impression that music is a really naff talent contest. They chew up and spit out the contestants like they are so much human garbage. But then if they are daft enough to do it, what do they expect? To be fair not everyone that goes on it is totally talentless and their have been some passable pop acts come out of the show.

However, truth be told if the whole Pop Idol/X-Factor thing had never happened the music biz may well be even more screwed. In many ways the show is the corporate pigs response to internet piracy taking away sales. They realised they needed something to drum up hysteria (for that is what truly sells records) and its been a great platform for that.

Whilst the arty people of the world like Sinead may grind their teeth in disgust, its vile commercialism has kept the kind of people that watch ITV fascinated by the glitz of music. If it wasn't doing that, I doubt anything else would be.

If nothing else it gives all the arty types something to kick against and moan about, which is always a good thing, as it stimulates rock'n'roll rebellion.
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Old 07-10-2013, 01:15
Eric_Blob
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No. Even with mainstream pop music. Look at the top 100 this week. Hardly anything Simon Cowell/Louis Walsh related in there. There are many pop songs, but they're NOTHING to do with the X Factor mostly.

They're basically irrelevent. I think because a few big names in the rock world criticize Simon Cowell, so rock fans end up just believing what they say, whilst if they did their research they'd realize how irrelevent Simon Cowell really is in the music industry. Very, very few successful artists have come from the X Factor, and most of the ones that are successful just have a hit or two. Only a few like Leona Lewis, Olly Murs, etc. have really seen major success, and the show has been around like 10 years or something now. Not a big deal at all. People need to get over it. RedOne had a much more negative impact on pop music the past few years than Simon Cowell did.
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Old 07-10-2013, 01:38
Pointy
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They certainly haven't helped it.
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:44
coun3spice
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They certainly haven't helped it.

when i think of cowell and walsh.. first name come to my mind is WESTLIFE
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Old 07-10-2013, 06:13
mushymanrob
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no.... as has been pointed out theres hardly any chart reprisentation by these two..

their impact on music only seems bigger then it is due to the tv progs
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:45
Pointy
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when i think of cowell and walsh.. first name come to my mind is WESTLIFE
That certainly doesn't dissuade me from my line of thinking.
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:53
Baz O
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I used to enjoy watching the X Factor until a friend of mine took part and told me how phoney it is. I usually watch for the first few weeks and then get bored and turn it off. I have noticed that some of the previous winners don't seem to have the record career they were hoping for.

When I was watching last night I thought would I buy the music of any of the contestants? and the answer is no. The only person I have ever rated has been Will Young. He is a very talented singer and performer imo. (Yes I know it was Pop Idol but all these talent shows are similar )
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:55
Semierotic
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The X-Factor has almost nothing to do with music. It's an entertainment show that has a few chart hits as a by-product.

That said, pop music is worse now. It all sounds like faux-Club dirge, and the eccentricities of the 80s and 90s have disappeared. It thinks it's edgy, but it's actually incredibly safe. In a weird way I almost admire One Direction for being willing to accept what they are go he 'bubblegum' route.
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:47
coun3spice
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That certainly doesn't dissuade me from my line of thinking.
before x factor came, a very x-factor-ish way of how westlife was discovered was done... of course via cowell-walsh tandem..


you don't probably know that.. just saying...
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:21
misslibertine
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before x factor came, a very x-factor-ish way of how westlife was discovered was done... of course via cowell-walsh tandem..


you don't probably know that.. just saying...

I thought everyone knew how manufactured boybands were manufactured?
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:16
TheTruth1983
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Not at all. There has never been so much music available, there has never been more musicians and music has never been so diverse. All this in spite of Cowell's best efforts to make music an easily digestible, mass marketable watered down shadow of what music should be.
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:19
Pointy
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before x factor came, a very x-factor-ish way of how westlife was discovered was done... of course via cowell-walsh tandem..


you don't probably know that.. just saying...
I do.
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Old 07-10-2013, 13:28
Glawster2002
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Not at all. There has never been so much music available, there has never been more musicians and music has never been so diverse. All this in spite of Cowell's best efforts to make music an easily digestible, mass marketable watered down shadow of what music should be.
Whilst that is true it has never been harder for those outside of the "mainstream" to be heard.

What has happened is the main music media outlets now have a much narrow list of music they will play , especially on TV.

What is needed is desperately needed is a modern equivalent of The Old Grey Whistle Test to allow those artists more of a "voice".
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Old 07-10-2013, 15:15
scamrasc
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honestly i much more so blame people like rhianna. more about getting their tits out to a bit of autotune so they can sniff coke off a rusty can in rio than making music.
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Old 07-10-2013, 16:07
Buffalo Man
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The X-Factor has almost nothing to do with music. It's an entertainment show that has a few chart hits as a by-product.

That said, pop music is worse now. It all sounds like faux-Club dirge, and the eccentricities of the 80s and 90s have disappeared. It thinks it's edgy, but it's actually incredibly safe. In a weird way I almost admire One Direction for being willing to accept what they are go he 'bubblegum' route.
You are absolutely right. When I listen to chart radio, a lot of songs sound the same and all seem to blend into one. And all this 'faux-club dirge' is, as you say, incredibly safe. What I don't like about modern chart music is how it's all so over-produced; this says it all.

Whilst that is true it has never been harder for those outside of the "mainstream" to be heard.

What has happened is the main music media outlets now have a much narrow list of music they will play , especially on TV.

What is needed is desperately needed is a modern equivalent of The Old Grey Whistle Test to allow those artists more of a "voice".
I agree with you too. Your point about the main music media outlets having a much narrower list of music to play is true. I especially don't like Capital radio: they seem to have a worrying amount of control over the charts right now, plus of course their playlist is as repetitive as anything. And yes, I do think there should be something like The Old Grey Whistle Test back on TV to show proper music and, as you say, allow artists more of a voice. I know we've got Jools Holland's programme, which is good, but one programme on all of British television that showcases 'proper' music is not good enough, in my opinion.

honestly i much more so blame people like rhianna. more about getting their tits out to a bit of autotune so they can sniff coke off a rusty can in rio than making music.
Yes! Now, I'm biased as I don't like her music whatsoever, but you're right. People like her, who are talentless, entitled tarts, who don't even have much respect for their fans (look at the amount of times she's been late for concerts) and who do, as you say, strip to some autotune so they can 'sniff coke off a rusty can in Rio'. My point is that it's people like her who bring the state of music down.
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Old 07-10-2013, 17:21
misslibertine
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honestly i much more so blame people like rhianna. more about getting their tits out to a bit of autotune so they can sniff coke off a rusty can in rio than making music.
I'm with you there.
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Old 07-10-2013, 17:49
mushymanrob
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The X-Factor has almost nothing to do with music. It's an entertainment show that has a few chart hits as a by-product.

.
which is why i watch it...its the modern saturday night entertainment show.
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Old 07-10-2013, 17:53
TheTruth1983
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Whilst that is true it has never been harder for those outside of the "mainstream" to be heard.

What has happened is the main music media outlets now have a much narrow list of music they will play , especially on TV.

What is needed is desperately needed is a modern equivalent of The Old Grey Whistle Test to allow those artists more of a "voice".
I'm not sure a show like The Old Grey Whistle Test would make a difference when the major record labels are so short sighted in their refusal to make long term investments in talent.
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Old 07-10-2013, 17:53
mushymanrob
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yeah, ill say this again

they didnt f up music, stock aitken and waterman were the main culprits because they popularised the manufactured pop puppet product, it was them that paved the way for cowell, walsh, fuller etc.
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Old 07-10-2013, 17:54
Squealer_Mahony
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And me
Grinds me gears when jelly tarts waggle their arses about to songs they had written for em and then bullshit on about their influences and how hard they work and being an aaaaartist.
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Old 07-10-2013, 20:43
mgvsmith
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I've read many of these arguments in no particular order before:-

- the XF has little influence on the charts;
- the charts are crap irrespective of the XF;
- SAW were actually the bad influence (yeah, some truth in that);
- the real money is in live work (although that is mainly for established artists);
- alternative, more credible tv or radio programmes would help alternative artists; and
- there are many minor artists making great music outside of the charts.

There is some truth in all these comments.

But here's a newer idea, which I have mentioned elsewhere,
The story of pop is over. It has less and less importance in the cultural landscape, all the new forms are recycled versions of the past, technology and the web have turned nearly everyone into a musician and provide the simple means to distribute this 'music'. And few of these 'artists' have much of interest to say or identify with; so much of it is just mixing beats and having a good time. It's all so homogenous and dull. There are no meaningful critics any more as everyone is a critic and cares little for anyone else's opinion. It's just about numbers. It's just business...(nothing personal).

The story's over.
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