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Ending a contract early due to no signal?


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Old 07-10-2013, 12:38
klendathu
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Hi I wonder if anyone could advise .

I am on Orange pay monthly, and have been for 10+ years, always paid on time.
I have always had a poor signal at home but have put up with it and managed .
However this year ,starting July-ish , the indoor signal has become none existent . I have also started a new job and I am unable to answer the bosses calls ( I work on call ) .

Called Orange in August , reported to tech support and offered to email some root metrics grabs. Was told they would call back .
Not heard anything .

Anyway I'll get to the point. I am halfway through my contract and want to know if it is possible to break my contract on the basis that I am not being provided with the service I am paying for?

i.e. is it at all likely they will waive my canx fee ?

I want to change to Three who can provide a good signal .
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:44
lem ramsay
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I don't think you can. No network can guarantee constant coverage everywhere, plus you can use the service you're paying for easily where coverage is present.
I understand the frustration but why did you put up with poor signal?
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:48
chenks
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this is why you have the right to terminate a contract for a set period at the beginning of the agreement, but half way thru it is way past that.
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Old 07-10-2013, 13:00
jabbamk1
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this is why you have the right to terminate a contract for a set period at the beginning of the agreement, but half way thru it is way past that.
Not quite. If they remove service from your area where you had service before then that's kind of grounds to cancel.

It'll be tough to cancel though. But Orange are letting people out of contract or discounting line rental due to this.
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Old 07-10-2013, 13:06
chenks
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Not quite. If they remove service from your area where you had service before then that's kind of grounds to cancel..
from what the OP has said/suggested, then no "removal of service" has taken place.

an already very poor signal has got a little poorer.

as previous poster said, no network will guarantee coverage at any particular place.
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Old 07-10-2013, 13:20
jabbamk1
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from what the OP has said/suggested, then no "removal of service" has taken place.

an already very poor signal has got a little poorer.

as previous poster said, no network will guarantee coverage at any particular place.
Well no, the OP said he had a poor signal, and now it is non existent.
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Old 07-10-2013, 13:22
chenks
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Well no, the OP said he had a poor signal, and now it is non existent.
only indoor signal.

that could be down to works being done on the cell tower in that location.
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Old 07-10-2013, 13:29
jabbamk1
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only indoor signal.

that could be down to works being done on the cell tower in that location.
Service has to be restored within 28 days max for it to be classed as maintenance. This issue has been going on since July... That's over 28 days.

I suggest the OP write a letter of complaint.
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Old 07-10-2013, 13:33
klendathu
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I put up with it previously because it was manageable, and I am a light user anyway .
But now the situation has altered, and the signal is none existent.

I have a job nowadays where I need to answer the phone when the depot calls , and I am unable to do so .
Calling 150 is a waste of time . Because I am a normal and loyal orange customer, I get shunted to the back of the queue for 20 minutes and then passed around .
The company are taking the wrong approach and giving priority to new 4G business , rather than the people who have got them into their current position
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Old 07-10-2013, 14:30
Thine Wonk
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I want to change to Three who can provide a good signal .
EE and Three both use MBNL shared infrastructure, so I'd be surprised if you got a very different signal level.

Do you get no signal at all, all over the house? It is going to be tricky as you entered into a contract, and as such they "gifted" you a phone that is probably worth about 70% of the contract value.

You might struggle to prove there has been a difference to your coverage that is so significant that it means the contact should be void and the supplier should lose out of 500 or so.
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Old 07-10-2013, 14:40
klendathu
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EE and Three both use MBNL shared infrastructure, so I'd be surprised if you got a very different signal level.

.
A person who lives with me is getting a good signal on Three in the same house , so I dunno whats going on there .

The best thing to do I think ,is to unlock the damn thing and test out some PAYG Sims for 3 and GiffGaff / O2.
Unlock code on FleaBay is 6.17 . Bloke on the market wants 20 quid

Once I get within the last 50 percent of the contract, i could lower the tariff and just leave it , then move onto PAYG 3,2,1 . which will suffice .
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Old 07-10-2013, 15:02
lost boy
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EE and Three both use MBNL shared infrastructure, so I'd be surprised if you got a very different signal level.
I wouldn't. The same thing is happening here:

EE; struggling to provide 2G with calls dropping like flies and shiny new blackspots post "optimisation" (at EE's own admission).
Three; 3G all over, calls running fine, even in EE blackspots.
A person who lives with me is getting a good signal on Three in the same house, so I dunno what's going on there.
Indeed, I don't know what's going on either seeing as they both use the same MBNL shared infrastructure.

Luckily, while EE quite openly don't care, Three DO care, so you'd have to drag me away from them.

In response to the OP:
I suggest the OP write a letter of complaint.
+1.
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Old 07-10-2013, 15:30
anyonefortennis
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A person who lives with me is getting a good signal on Three in the same house , so I dunno whats going on there .

The best thing to do I think ,is to unlock the damn thing and test out some PAYG Sims for 3 and GiffGaff / O2.
Unlock code on FleaBay is 6.17 . Bloke on the market wants 20 quid

Once I get within the last 50 percent of the contract, i could lower the tariff and just leave it , then move onto PAYG 3,2,1 . which will suffice .
You are definitely within your rights to cancel your contract if you are not getting a service. Despite what the networks say, you still have rights according to the sale of goods and services act.
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Old 07-10-2013, 15:40
klendathu
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Thanks for the replies
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Old 07-10-2013, 15:45
liamhere
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i have one from three

http://community.ee.co.uk/t5/4g-netw...lity/td-p/1302
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Old 07-10-2013, 16:24
Thine Wonk
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You are definitely within your rights to cancel your contract if you are not getting a service. Despite what the networks say, you still have rights according to the sale of goods and services act.
Point us to exactly where it says you have the right to terminate a mobile contract because of lack of home coverage when already 1/2 way through the contract without previously raising a complaint then...

Mobile networks never guarantee radio coverage everywhere and it is very subjective as to what constitutes the right to end a binding agreement. It often isn't as straightforward as it sounds.
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Old 07-10-2013, 18:18
enapace
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Point us to exactly where it says you have the right to terminate a mobile contract because of lack of home coverage when already 1/2 way through the contract without previously raising a complaint then...

Mobile networks never guarantee radio coverage everywhere and it is very subjective as to what constitutes the right to end a binding agreement. It often isn't as straightforward as it sounds.
Your right and honestly it shouldn't be that way if you not getting a service it not your fault it is there's.

I concur with people about difference in EE and Three though I know offhand three places where I can 3/4 bars of DC-HSDPA signal and my friend on EE can't get any at all.
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Old 07-10-2013, 18:38
anyonefortennis
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Point us to exactly where it says you have the right to terminate a mobile contract because of lack of home coverage when already 1/2 way through the contract without previously raising a complaint then...

Mobile networks never guarantee radio coverage everywhere and it is very subjective as to what constitutes the right to end a binding agreement. It often isn't as straightforward as it sounds.
The OP did raise a complaint in August. Did you read the post?
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Old 07-10-2013, 18:45
Thine Wonk
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The OP did raise a complaint in August. Did you read the post?
I did yes, the same still stands though. There are 4 ways out of the contract.

1. The supplier agrees to release you from it and terminates it
2. A court terminates it because there has been a breach of the contract that is serious enough that it means terminating it
3. The regulator tells the service provider to cancel it
4. You settle the outstanding amount in the agreement under early termination, usually this gives you a small discount but disconnects the phone from the day you settle.

Aside from those things happening the contract still stands, and there is no guarantee that not getting a good signal at home constitutes a breach of contract, as the contract states radio technology can be variable and that they don't guarantee coverage in all places.

You can have a go at trying to get the contract cancelled, but it isn't always easy, lots of people would claim no coverage otherwise just to walk off with free phones and get out of unwanted contracts. It is worth following the official complaints procedure and allowing it to work it's course then going to the regulator. There is nothing explicit about not getting coverage somewhere and then automatically being allowed out of your contract though, it can be a struggle.
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Old 07-10-2013, 18:55
Aye Up
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I was having this arguement a few weeks back with someone over at MSE...they were so cock sure that the poster couldn't cancel.

Anyway when you signed up you were provided with a signal, that is not what is up for dispute. Though the signal was "poor" it worked and you did ok. Now you have no service so something has changed to your material detriment. I don't care what anyone else in this thread says about you have or don't have grounds to cancel. You do!

Be reasonable and realistic when you write a complaint, my advice is to go to the exec office of Orange (email at the bottom). You will cut out the BS that customer services will give you and get your problem sorted. They likely do one of two things, offer you a signal box or cancel out the remainder of your contract. I did the same thing (I even worked for the company) when I had no data coverage whilst getting full 3G signal and they let me leave early. They are not totally unreasonable as long as you explain your care succinctly they will usually try and fix everything for you.

Stupid question however, have you not tried doing an operator search and switching to the other EE signal? If its anything like my old orange phone it will latch onto the home network and not budge even if the signal from the original T-Mobile network is stronger. I don't think the networks are fully integrated yet where it just takes whatever signal is strongest (unless someone can correct me?).

There has been a longstanding agreement I believe between the networks and ofcom, where someones signal changes to non-existant then a customer has grounds to cancel (though there are no official guidelines from the regulator as Sale of Goods act was judged sufficient). Each case is always looked at individually anyway.

executive.office@orange.co.uk or if you want the boss olaf.swantee@ee.co.uk

Keep your letter polite, firm and succinct and I am sure they will be able to come up with a good solution
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Old 07-10-2013, 19:01
Thine Wonk
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I was having this arguement a few weeks back with someone over at MSE...they were so cock sure that the poster couldn't cancel.

Anyway when you signed up you were provided with a signal, that is not what is up for dispute. Though the signal was "poor" it worked and you did ok. Now you have no service so something has changed to your material detriment. I don't care what anyone else in this thread says about you have or don't have grounds to cancel. You do!
Yeah some trees might have grown taller, the phone might have been dropped, the network might be busier so cell breathing is happening, there might be local interference from something a neighbour is using.

Sorry, but you are wrong. There is nothing written in law at all, it is down to the discretion of the judge, looking at all the facts, and what the contract stipulates, when the issue arose, when it was reported etc.

You aren't guaranteed to be allowed to exit your agreement, which might have 500 left outstanding just because you can't get 'mobile' signal in 1 spot. I suspect it still works in some rooms of the house, but I don't know as the OP hasn't been specific about the signal level throughout the house. They do say it was never a blindingly strong signal in the first place.

If you don't pay the contract you'll just start debt proceedings going, the only way to cancel is to go to the small claims court, but it's very hit and miss as the sale of good and services act is very open to interpretation with regard to this matter, and a lot of other things will factor, such as what the contract states that the OP agreed to.

We will take all reasonable steps to make the Services available to you at all times.
The Services are only available within the range of the base stations that make up the
Network. We cannot guarantee a continuous fault free service. Please note that:
3.1.1 the quality and availability of Services may sometimes be affected by factors outside
our control - such as local physical obstructions, atmospheric conditions, other
causes of radio interference, features or functionality of your Device, the number of
people trying to use the network at the same time, and faults in other
telecommunication networks to which the Network is connected;
3.1.2 the quality of our Services may not be at its best inside buildings or below ground
Any coverage maps are our best estimate but not a guarantee of service coverage
which may vary from place to place.
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Old 07-10-2013, 19:24
anyonefortennis
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I did yes, the same still stands though. There are 4 ways out of the contract.

1. The supplier agrees to release you from it and terminates it
2. A court terminates it because there has been a breach of the contract that is serious enough that it means terminating it
3. The regulator tells the service provider to cancel it
4. You settle the outstanding amount in the agreement under early termination, usually this gives you a small discount but disconnects the phone from the day you settle.

Aside from those things happening the contract still stands, and there is no guarantee that not getting a good signal at home constitutes a breach of contract, as the contract states radio technology can be variable and that they don't guarantee coverage in all places.

You can have a go at trying to get the contract cancelled, but it isn't always easy, lots of people would claim no coverage otherwise just to walk off with free phones and get out of unwanted contracts. It is worth following the official complaints procedure and allowing it to work it's course then going to the regulator. There is nothing explicit about not getting coverage somewhere and then automatically being allowed out of your contract though, it can be a struggle.
I didn't say it was your right but these days they are more likely to agree to cancelling your contract if you take the steps you stated. They are reluctant to get on the wrong side of the regulator/ ombudsman. Especially in light of EE's recent signal problems highlighted on Watchdog.
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Old 07-10-2013, 19:28
anyonefortennis
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Yeah some trees might have grown taller, the phone might have been dropped, the network might be busier so cell breathing is happening, there might be local interference from something a neighbour is using.

Sorry, but you are wrong. There is nothing written in law at all, it is down to the discretion of the judge, looking at all the facts, and what the contract stipulates, when the issue arose, when it was reported etc.

You aren't guaranteed to be allowed to exit your agreement, which might have 500 left outstanding just because you can't get 'mobile' signal in 1 spot. I suspect it still works in some rooms of the house, but I don't know as the OP hasn't been specific about the signal level throughout the house. They do say it was never a blindingly strong signal in the first place.

If you don't pay the contract you'll just start debt proceedings going, the only way to cancel is to go to the small claims court, but it's very hit and miss as the sale of good and services act is very open to interpretation with regard to this matter, and a lot of other things will factor, such as what the contract states that the OP agreed to.
It is written in law. The supply of goods and services act 1982.
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Old 07-10-2013, 19:40
Thine Wonk
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It is written in law. The supply of goods and services act 1982.
Show me where is says you can cancel your contract because you don't get coverage on a mobile network at your home address.

It doesn't, furthermore the contract you signed specifically says they don't guarantee coverage everywhere, especially indoors. It is down to a judge to agree if it is a breach of contract and that depends on lots of factors, it's not black and white.
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Old 07-10-2013, 19:44
Emmersonne
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They don't have to oblige you, but they might. It's probably best to try in store though.
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