[anyonefortennis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

Show me where is says you can cancel your contract because you don't get coverage on a mobile network at your home address.

It doesn't, furthermore the contract you signed specifically says they don't guarantee coverage everywhere, especially indoors. It is down to a judge to agree if it is a breach of contract and that depends on lots of factors, it's not black and white.

Why do you think EE and others have agreed to terminating customers contracts who have lost or have poor signals like me. Because they are in breach of the supply of goods and services act.

[Thine Wonk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by anyonefortennis

Why do you think EE and others have agreed to terminating customers contracts who have lost or have poor signals like me. Because they are in breach of the supply of goods and services act.

Not always, sometimes it's because they don't want the negative publicity or to have the regulator looking at the number of complaints that go to it.

The only person that could decide if they were in breach would be a judge, it is worth a try but you aren't guaranteed to get out of your contract, it depends on the circumstances in the individual case.

Quite often when you've totally lost coverage as a result of a mast being decommissioned they will let you out of contract, but it's not always as simple as that.

[Minardi]

Pestered for 4 months but couldn't get out at a discount. In the end it was causing problems to my business so all my phones are being shifted out in the next couple of weeks.

[anyonefortennis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minardi

Pestered for 4 months but couldn't get out at a discount. In the end it was causing problems to my business so all my phones are being shifted out in the next couple of weeks.

Did you pay the remainder of your contract?

[Minardi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by anyonefortennis

Did you pay the remainder of your contract?

I will do on my next invoice. It was getting daft, no one could get hold of me. It's going to be under £100 and it's starting to cost me that in problems. Headed back to O2 I think.

[anyonefortennis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minardi

I will do on my next invoice. It was getting daft, no one could get hold of me. It's going to be under £100 and it's starting to cost me that in problems. Headed back to O2 I think.

Did you write to the ombudsman or threaten legal action?

[Minardi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by anyonefortennis

Did you write to the ombudsman or threaten legal action?

No, I'm stuck in a catch 22. I have some signal some of the time at our office. The problem is it's gone from continuous flawless signal to only working in some buildings. It's not like I've lost everything, I still have something in some places so their position is that's enough of a service.

[anyonefortennis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minardi

No, I'm stuck in a catch 22. I have some signal some of the time at our office. The problem is it's gone from continuous flawless signal to only working in some buildings. It's not like I've lost everything, I still have something in some places so their position is that's enough of a service.

I'm sure if you kick up a stink and threaten to go to the ombudsman or take legal action they will back down. Mention the Watchdog programme. That usually scares them.

[Thine Wonk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by anyonefortennis

I'm sure if you kick up a stink and threaten to go to the ombudsman or take legal action they will back down. Mention the Watchdog programme. That usually scares them.

There's a balance though between changing when you're at the end of the contract if you're not satisfied vs such a breach of contract that it allows you to terminate mid-term.

If your objective is to bully and hassle companies into giving you a £500 phone and then letting you out of the contract when you haven't even covered the phone price you're not going to get very far, even if you shout watchdog at them. If you really have lost coverage and it has changed significantly since you took the contract out and they can see a local cell site was decommissioned then they may well let you out of the contract.

I have no sympathy for professional complainers that just rip companies off and have the cost passed onto other consumers, but I do have sympathy for people if they genuinely have lost coverage or are experiencing such bad issues that they should be allowed to exit mid-term. Mild annoyances or letdowns have to be dealt with at the end of your contract though, at which point most re-sign to the same company after all the kicking and screaming they did during multiple outages etc..

[Aye Up]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

Yeah some trees might have grown taller, the phone might have been dropped, the network might be busier so cell breathing is happening, there might be local interference from something a neighbour is using.

Sorry, but you are wrong. There is nothing written in law at all, it is down to the discretion of the judge, looking at all the facts, and what the contract stipulates, when the issue arose, when it was reported etc.

You aren't guaranteed to be allowed to exit your agreement, which might have £500 left outstanding just because you can't get 'mobile' signal in 1 spot. I suspect it still works in some rooms of the house, but I don't know as the OP hasn't been specific about the signal level throughout the house. They do say it was never a blindingly strong signal in the first place.

If you don't pay the contract you'll just start debt proceedings going, the only way to cancel is to go to the small claims court, but it's very hit and miss as the sale of good and services act is very open to interpretation with regard to this matter, and a lot of other things will factor, such as what the contract states that the OP agreed to.

OK no one is for a second suggesting to stop paying the bill so I don't know where you got that idea from. You seem to follow this same line in every thread where someone suffers an issue that could be classed as breach of contract or contrary to the SOG Act.

So I will address what is written in law the consumer is covered by the Sale of Goods Act 1979 and Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Both these make clear what constitutes a breach of contract. It doesn't matter what each network says in how they can't guarrantee signal. If they have previously provided you with an adequate service regardless of how good the signal is and now you have no supply of that service then they are in breach its as simple as that. No Network will try and defend a loss of service over a long period, the cost of the phone has no relevance to provision of service, so I don't know why the hell you keep spouting shit like that.

If the network is not in breach then explain how Three let all those customers who lost 2G backup out of contract when they couldn't access any signal? Though a phone/device forms part of the sales contract, it is insigificant when it comes to service provision.

Whether this arguement went to the customer relations deparment of a network or an independent ajudicator, the case would be found in the plaintiffs favour. As I have said Ofcom has an agreement with the networks for such situations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emmersonne

They don't have to oblige you, but they might. It's probably best to try in store though.

Store is no use as they are sales based, that is a wasted journey. It has to be done in writing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

The only person that could decide if they were in breach would be a judge, it is worth a try but you aren't guaranteed to get out of your contract, it depends on the circumstances in the individual case.

Quite often when you've totally lost coverage as a result of a mast being decommissioned they will let you out of contract, but it's not always as simple as that.

WRONG!!!!!! You speak to the customer relations department of each network and I know for a fact they can come to the same conclusion. This is not about a technical aspect of law, it already clearly eastablished through previous cases and also by statute. Again the networks where a severe and extensive loss of service has occurred for a lengthy period have no choice but to admit fault. There is no middle ground on this, it really is that black and white. In previous cases where someone has suffered a loss of signal prior to the rebrand Orange has offered customers to transfer to T-Mobile and vice versa. However given how the network is becoming this isn't an option seemingly.

The facts are simple, you sign up to a contract for service provision on the understanding they can provide you with that service. I believe it is generally required at POS for a coverage check to be done as well (unless customer is buying online then the onus is on them). If the service changes to their material disadvantage after the signing of the contract then they are in breach end of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

There's a balance though between changing when you're at the end of the contract if you're not satisfied vs such a breach of contract that it allows you to terminate mid-term.

If your objective is to bully and hassle companies into giving you a £500 phone and then letting you out of the contract when you haven't even covered the phone price you're not going to get very far, even if you shout watchdog at them. If you really have lost coverage and it has changed significantly since you took the contract out and they can see a local cell site was decommissioned then they may well let you out of the contract.

I have no sympathy for professional complainers that just rip companies off and have the cost passed onto other consumers, but I do have sympathy for people if they genuinely have lost coverage or are experiencing such bad issues that they should be allowed to exit mid-term. Mild annoyances or letdowns have to be dealt with at the end of your contract though, at which point most re-sign to the same company after all the kicking and screaming they did during multiple outages etc..

Again what relevance has the cost of a phone to do with crap or no coverage? There is no balance when cancelling mid-term if a network who has previously supplied service suddenly stops it (i.e. decommissioning a cell) then they forfeit their right to have you honour that commitment, as again it has changed to your material disadvantage. Case law backs this up along with legislation.

I have YET to come across a person refused a penalty free exit for loss of service/signal over a lengthy period. The only time things may get fuzzy is when "reasonable" comes into play if the service is down for a week and then comes up again that doesn't give grounds for cancellation but as mentioned the removal of coverage or decommissioning of a mast which results in that (with no further plans for upgrades) is more than enough grounds for cancellation.

[Thine Wonk]

No network can guarantee that radio waves will be able to still be available at your property in the future, building work and many other factors may change coverage in some areas, that is why they specify that in the contract.

As I have said, it depends on a number of factors and isn't as simple as you suggest. It is at the networks discretion, and if they refuse then you have to go to the regulator or to the court.

Here is what Which say

Quote:

Consistently poor mobile signal
If the problem relates to a loss in service, your remedy will depend on whether you have no mobile signal in your area or just at home.
If there’s no mobile signal in your whole area and you’re constantly losing service, you may be able to terminate the contract for non-performance.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-righ...ontract-early/

They make the point about your house vs your area, they also make a point about what your contract says and they advise you of what to do, but they fall short of saying it is black and white as you suggest.

Here's what money.co.uk say

Quote:

Are mobile networks legally obliged to cancel your contract?
Under current UK law a mobile network is not required to cancel a mobile contract without charge due to poor network coverage.

http://www.money.co.uk/article/10077...#ixzz2h5Ac3itV

The reason why i talk about the handset is because when you take out a contract this is 'gifted' to you, and the mobile network must fund this. If everyone started trying to get out of contracts just because of reduced coverage then that will cost us all more in mobile phone bills.

Every situation is different, as far as the law is concerned the position is posted in the 2 links above, the general consensus is that nothing in law guarantees you mobile coverage throughout your house, in fact Orange's contract specifically warns you about in building coverage not being guaranteed.

If networks do release you from contract it is out of goodwill and not wanting bad publicity or large numbers of complaints to the regulator, not because they are obliged by law in most cases.

[Simon Rodgers]

I think if you can prove the service is getting bad and unacceptable you can press for a release in your contract as they have not fulfilled their part, although check the contract itself first.

I'm suprised Orange are having signal issues, I thought they merged with T-Mobile and as a result users of both networks could use each others signal? That said, T-Mobile's signal is poor too.

[Thine Wonk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Rodgers

I think if you can prove the service is getting bad and unacceptable you can press for a release in your contract as they have not fulfilled their part, although check the contract itself first.

I'm suprised Orange are having signal issues, I thought they merged with T-Mobile and as a result users of both networks could use each others signal? That said, T-Mobile's signal is poor too.

That doesn't mean they are keeping 2 networks, over the last 2 years they have been consolidating infrastructure and decommissioning masts. The old Orange network code won't exist soon as it is all moving over to T-mobile's network code. This is the cause of issues for a small number of people where they turn off infrastructure where there is an overlap, but obviously not enough of one for a small area that loses out.

[klendathu]

UPDATE

Spoken to a manager in the technical department this morning . They have admitted , again, that the service in my area is unacceptable, and that they are losing customers as a result .
My local mast is being worked on at the minute and has been not functioning correctly over the last 3 months .
I have been assured that the signal problems will be resolved in 1 months time . A note has been left on my account stating that if it hasn't been resolved , then I would be within my rights to be released early.
That is straight from the horses mouth .

In the meantime , as a gesture of goodwill and an apology , my line rental is been HALVED , for the reaming 12 months of my 2 year contract

Even if they fix the problem and I stay , my 50 percent discount is permanent for this current term

What I found was that as soon as I mentioned I am missing work calls , and that I can prove lack of service , they take action .

Perhaps my decade of loyalty has been recognised after all .


Cunningly I shall dig out an old phone , and stick a PAYG SIM in for emergencies and work notifications. Where there's a will there's a way .

[Thine Wonk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by klendathu

UPDATE

Spoken to a manager in the technical department this morning . They have admitted , again, that the service in my area is unacceptable, and that they are losing customers as a result .
My local mast is being worked on at the minute and has been not functioning correctly over the last 3 months .
I have been assured that the signal problems will be resolved in 1 months time . A note has been left on my account stating that if it hasn't been resolved , then I would be within my rights to be released early.
That is straight from the horses mouth .

In the meantime , as a gesture of goodwill and an apology , my line rental is been HALVED , for the reaming 12 months of my 2 year contract

Even if they fix the problem and I stay , my 50 percent discount is permanent for this current term

What I found was that as soon as I mentioned I am missing work calls , and that I can prove lack of service , they take action .

Perhaps my decade of loyalty has been recognised after all .


Cunningly I shall dig out an old phone , and stick a PAYG SIM in for emergencies and work notifications. Where there's a will there's a way .

Congratulations, I would still do your research and look around at the end of the contract though as loyalty as a customer only tends to have you paying 30% over the odds and missing out on things you could get elsewhere.

[anyonefortennis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by klendathu

UPDATE

Spoken to a manager in the technical department this morning . They have admitted , again, that the service in my area is unacceptable, and that they are losing customers as a result .
My local mast is being worked on at the minute and has been not functioning correctly over the last 3 months .
I have been assured that the signal problems will be resolved in 1 months time . A note has been left on my account stating that if it hasn't been resolved , then I would be within my rights to be released early.
That is straight from the horses mouth .

In the meantime , as a gesture of goodwill and an apology , my line rental is been HALVED , for the reaming 12 months of my 2 year contract

Even if they fix the problem and I stay , my 50 percent discount is permanent for this current term

What I found was that as soon as I mentioned I am missing work calls , and that I can prove lack of service , they take action .

Perhaps my decade of loyalty has been recognised after all .


Cunningly I shall dig out an old phone , and stick a PAYG SIM in for emergencies and work notifications. Where there's a will there's a way .

Good for you. I knew you'd get somewhere with them if you persisted and dealt with the 3rd tier technical support. I have been offered only 25% off my bill so far but that was only with the 1st tier customer support. I am holding out for more or cancelling my contract if I don't get satisfaction. It's unaccaptable paying so much money and being anable to make or receive calls.

[Zee_Bukhari]

I would contact the ombudsman, big chance they will cancel your contract. I had issues with Virgin Mobile, tried several ways, even writing to them, and I was ignored. After contacting the ombudsman within 2 weeks I was contacted and had my 24 month contract cancelled after the 9th month.

Its really worth a shot

[Andrew_Adams]

Had to cancel account drupe to my phone being lost but due to and advisor in an overseas contact centre failing to log my call and barring all calls ended up with call charges to Egypt which I have never visited or know anyone there. Tried to log a complaint 4 times to be told no and told they do not send letters out for a deadlock. They would not give me the address for the dispute resolution service so had to find it myself.

Orange you really need to look at your policies and training of staff hence you have the worst customer services in the uk