In terms or ratings, NBC certainly has improved, I remember it was having a horrific year in 2011 I think? And it's only just started to dig itself out. I'm hoping for a 1.8 for the return of About A Boy, and for NBC Friday, Grimm starting with 1.5 and Constantine at 1.4, both would be impressive for a Friday.

The only saving graces FOX has is... New Girl, yes, New Girl, it may have dropped a lot, but looking at other FOX shows, its 1.7 premiere looks solid, even if it does fall to around 1.3 soon, and will still look better than what FOX has been getting, and of course... GOTHAM. This show has drummed up apparently a lot of interest in the US (and even here), but we need to think about how badly FOX has done. If FOX was having a better year, then I would have easily suggested an easy 3.5+ demo and around 14m... but I am going to got for a 3.0 demo and around 11m.

Plus once season 4 is done, FOX have syndication in the bag so money money money

Curious to see how Sleepy hollow does for season 2.

Thurs finals:

CBS:
NFL- 7.34m (2.2), 11.88m (4.5)

NBC:
The Biggest Loser- 4.62m (1.3)
The Mysteries of Laura (r)- 3.94m (0.8)

ABC:
Greys Anatomy (r)- 3.81m (0.7)
Scandal (r)- 3.56m (0.7), 3.99m (0.8)

FOX:
Sleepy Hollow (r)- 2.07m (0.5), 2.07m (0.5)

CW:
The Vampire Diaries (r)- 540,000 (0.2)
The Originals (r)- 600,000 (0.2)

Am I missing something or did NFL do far worse than Big Bang Theory would have done on Thursday night?

It did indeed. Didn't notice really. Big Bang is usually at a solid 4.9-5.3.

Monday is the day it all starts properly!

Monday we have- Big Bang, Gotham, The Voice, Scorpion, Sleepy Hollow, The Blacklist and Forever.
Tuesday- NCIS, SHIELD, Chicago Fire, Person of Interest
Wednesday is another huge day with... The Middle, The Goldbergs, Modern Family, Law and Order, Survivor, Blackish, Chicago PD, Nashville.
Thursday- Bones, Greys, Scandal, Parenthood and How To Get Away with Murder.

Tomorrow also see's

The good wife return
Premiere of Madam Secretary
The final episode of American dad to ever air on FOX. It will return on TBS in November i think

While friday see's
the return of Hawaii 0-5 and Blue bloods

Very interesting they have put Madam Secretary as a lead in for The good wife as early reviews have branded this show "the new good wife"

Utopia

CBS:
Big Brother- 5.23m (1.6)
Hawaii Five 0 (r)- 4.83m (0.8)
Blue Bloods (r)- 6.06m (0.5)

NBC:
The Biggest Loser (r)- 5.23m (0.7)
Dateline- 5.14m (1.2)

ABC:
Last Man Standing (r)- 4.19m (0.7), 4.06m (0.7)
Shark Tank (r)- 4.34m (1.1)
20/20- 4.11m (0.9)

FOX:
Red Band Society (r)- 2.08m (0.6)
Utopia- 1.54m (0.5)

CW:
Masters of Illusion- 1.50m (0.4)
Who's Line? (r)- 1.26m (0.4)
Americas Next Top Model (r) - 650,000 (0.2)

Hmm tonight's schedule is interesting

Forever debuts and is up against The Blacklist, which was the biggest new hit of last season.
FOX have also put their newborn baby Gotham up against Big bang, The voice and Dancing

I assumed Fox wanted Gotham to succeed but have put it up against two highly rated reality shows, as well as the biggest sitcom on television right now. It wouldn't shock me if Gotham doesn't somehow manage around 5-6 million, which it's self could be viewed as average, for a show that has been hyped before a cast was even picked or before a scene was even filmed.

I think it's the pairing of Gotham and Sleepy Hollow that Fox really wanted, there's not many other places in the week they can go together - and it may well be that this is their only semi-successful strategy of their entire line up. I loved SH last season, and am really looking forward to Gotham. Were I in the States, the other shows would be further down my must-see list. But these two shows are up against behemoths - TBBT and The Voice especially. Gotham is not what I'd consider a broad audience appeal show, it's a 'geek' show, with comic book origins - I think it will do very well in the younger demographic, especially the 18-34's, but not so big in the overall viewers - The Voice and TBBT will scoop up the big numbers once again. 12-14 million for both, with demos in the high 3's or 4's. I think up against that, Gotham would be pretty respectable with a 5-6 million and 2.5 demo. The show will hopefully further benefit when TBBT moves back to Thursdays in a few weeks time, and will probably stay stable enough to count it as a success.

Hmm you could be right when you explain it like that

and i agree, SH and Gotham are pefect to be aside one another.

Madam Secretary, thanks to the football overrunning did 14.3m, that is more than I was expecting although it might be adjusted lower later on but a great start.

Yep, here are the full early ratings:

CBS:
NFL Overrun- 27.34m (8.3)
60 Minutes- 18.27m (3.6)
Madam Secretary- 14.28m (1.9)
The Good Wife- 9.95m (1.3)

NBC:
Football in America- 5.26m (1.6), 5.97m (2.2), 13.06m (5.0), 18.03m (7.2)

FOX:
Bobs Burgers (r)- 2.24m (0.9)
The Simpsons (r)- 2.19m (0.9) and 3.07m (1.3)
Family Guy (r)- 2.85m (1.3) and 3.06m (1.4)
American Dad (r)- 2.97m (1.4)

ABC:
Americas Funniest Videos (r)- 4.84m (0.8)
Once Upon A Time (r)- 2.67m (0.6)
Ressurection (r)- 2.51m (0.5)
Revenge (r)- 2.23m (0.5)

1.3 for good wife. This will more than likely be the final season. Sad that a show with high ratings, acclaim and awards being won just fails miserably in demo's these days. Plus that and the fact it bombed in syndication, to the point it was taken off the air.

Rather good for MS but expected a much higher demo though. At least 2.2

TGW bombed in syndication??? Quite surprising as I thought Lifetime audiences (assuming that's where it went) would embrace it. Would TNT or USA even bother?? Numerous Emmy wins can only get you so far. Perhaps that's why fans and cast were pissed that TGW missed out on Outstanding Drama Series nomination.

Average debut for Madam Secretary. Great sampling in total viewers but it's an older skewing drama. Nonetheless, CBS should beat ABC Sunday lineup with ease upon return. Yes, even TGW/CSI (depending on overrun) might beat Revenge at 10pm.

The $50 million next big thing - 0.5
A repeat of an animated series against NFL - over double that

How long before The Simpsons, Family Guy and American Dad are moved to prop up the weekday schedule?

Bob's Burgers is also another likely candidate!!! American Dad moved to TBS. Maybe they might extend Glee, although that would do more harm than good. If Gotham don't do well, FOX is screwed for this season. It would be hilarious if The CW can overtake FOX at this stage.

It would be better if Fox do not extend Glee. Glee is quite frankly a flop and no where near the money maker it once was. The soundtracks barely sell and the demos and ratings are absolutley terrible. It will make them money in Syndication, but right now, the show isn't earning a lot of money for FOX. It was a big mistake for FOX to have given it a 2 season pick up anyway after Season 4. The less money they spend on the final season, the better. They must be losing enough money from Utopia.

Fox have a new animated series for next year. Bordertown, by none other than Mr Macfarlane. I wonder how well that will do. I predict a cancellation for Bob's Burgers as once Season 5 has finished, they have more than enough for syndication. It's a shame as it is a great show and is loved by critics and recently bagged the best animated series at the emmy's but that doesn't take you far.

I was shocked as well but like you said, all of what you listed only gets you so far.

Actually it aired on Hallmark. It was on there for less than a month and they dumped it. Hallmark paid 2 million an episode for the first four seasons and exclusive access to air season 5 once it aired. I haven't got a clue if another channel picked it up since.

The Good Wife has a three way syndication with Hallmark, Hulu and Amazon Prime plus broadcast syndication, I think its a show that would do better with online consumption to the serialized nature of the show. Hallmark themselves didn't pay $2m an episode, that was combined.

FOX seems to be slowly abandoning the animation block with Mulaney and Brooklyn 99, I think animation will still have a place but its clear that FOX hasn't found a hit like they have with Simpsons, Family Guy etc I think perhaps they need to break away from the family format, all the shows with the exception of failed shows have all been deviation of the family sitcom, maybe an animated workplace sitcom or an animated friends sitcom would be worth trying or even a non comedy animated series

Before the big day ratings are released for the start of the fall, here are the finals for Sunday. GW, Madam Secretary and American Dad adjusted up, 60 Mins, down.

CBS:
NFL Overrun- 26.99m (9.0)
60 Minutes- 17.87m (3.5)
Madam Secretary- 14.75m (2.0)
The Good Wife- 11.06m (1.4)

NBC:
Football in America- 2.43m (0.8), 9.95m (3.7), 19.66m (7.8)

FOX:
Bobs Burgers (r)- 1.88m (0.8)
The Simpsons (r)- 2.16m (0.9) and 3.03m (1.3)
Family Guy (r)- 2.83m (1.3) and 3.05m (1.4)
American Dad (r)- 3.03m (1.5)

ABC:
Americas Funniest Videos (r)- 4.94m (0.9)
Once Upon A Time (r)- 3.20m (0.8)
Ressurection (r)- 3.13m (0.7)
Revenge (r)- 2.58m (0.6)

Top 3 cable ratings (excl repeats and films)

FX:
The Strain- 2.28m (1.2)

DISC:
Naked and Afraid- 2.27m (0.9)

HBOM:
Broadwalk Empire- 2.11m (0.9)

Witches of East End was up and got 1.24m (0.5) on Lifetime.

Gotham - 3.2 (7.99m)
Sleepy Hollow - 2.0 (5.55m)

Big Bang Theory - 5.4 (17.87m)
Scorpion - 3.3 (14.01m)
Under The Dome - 1.8 (7.56m)

The Voice - 3.9 (12.74m)
Blacklist - 3.4 (12.45m)

DWTS - 2.0 (11.97m)
Forever - 1.5 (8.26m)

Sources: TVMoJoe, TV Media Insights

Promising start demo wise for Gotham, Scorpion debuted okay and The Blacklist still doing performing well, Forever didn't do so well, it may struggle against Person of Interest and Chicago Fire.

Some great starts there! Scorpion at around 6 tenths higher than what The Millers usually did after TBBT, so if it stays above 2.8 after it, it's very safe. Brilliant for The Blacklist.Very good start for Gotham.

I'm in the middle of typing all of the ratings up, but saw this now... DAMN.

Brilliant for Gotham and Scorpion

2.0 for Sleepy hollow is good
1.5 for Forever, well that seems alright, especially for ABC.

debuted ok? It premiered incredibly well. 3.3 is fantastic.