Hi!

No one had posted the link to Episode 12, so I thought I ought to do it. I won't have time to open the discussion tonight though, so either Jack or someone else will have to do it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkWsQuMGbUs

Enjoy!

Incidentally, there is a statue in this episode that looks just like Zoe Plummer.

I'll open it tonight. Sorry, I was busy yesterday.

Sir Alan: Hello Ladies

Interesting to watch this knowing, as we do now, that the result is based on the candidates working for Sir Alan for a few months rather than the final task.
Certainly Saira managed to clearly demonstrate why she didn't win - though really she should've known that picking Paul would end in rucktions. Problem was of those left they were either useless or she'd also had previous run ins with. Also note that only Raj could be considered Saira's "mate" whilst Tim got Ben, Seb and Miriam.
In the "You're Hired" show Sir Alan did make the point that Tim's management style was what really won it for him. Whilst Saira's style probably works well in certain situations, there will be lots where it won't. It was interesting how much of "You're Hired" was spent on how badly the women performed, especially when in all female teams.

If we assume Tim and Saira were pretty close going into the final so effectively the final task was the decider.

From the beginning Saira made mistakes, picking Raj? then Paul really appalling decisions. Raj is useless, and Paul needs careful management as he is so volatile. He clearly didn't like her and they had already fallen out.

Tim's choices were better and easier he chose his mates.

The task itself, at least Tim had a theme, Saira clearly just hoped for the best, and had no ideas that came from her or her team.

Tim deserved the win.
Would have been interested in the choices Margret and Nick made, for some reason that wasn't shown

Were they close? Tim didn't have that much real show success but Saira didn't have a great show record, multiple mistakes to her name, and the difficult label and salesperson title had been stuck upon her repeatedly.There's no one else to choose from by the final . On just ability, i think two better winners had already gone. We don't know how working for Sir Alan changed or reinforced that view.

Tim fitted the young man with no major flaws, who needs a chance, and a helping hand, model. He had the journey from East end poor roots story. Saira looked a bit more limited, more difficult, and dangerous, and less in need I thought.

I don't think there's much choice left to be made when he's picked his finalists - a disaster from Tim would make it difficult, but anything less can be fudged.

I think the result began early the question of whether some poeple are unlikely to win however good they are - because they don't fit the concept of an apprentice , or the job on offer , or have too narrow experience, or too much experience, or he takes against something in their CV.

Sometimes he does hire them if they aren't an in the Apprentice mould - look at Stella.

By then though he had got rid of the nearest thing left to Sugar- like Apprentice material - because he didn't want to take on the amount of work (Joanna) With Tim, he had someone a bit more experienced. He talked about the time it would take working with Tim in the SF- and decided he was prepared to take it on with him. His own age may matter in later series, if he doesn't want the burden any more ? He also preserved his Baggs option in series 6 far too long - losing his highest flyer and some more of the younger potential apprentice options in the process. That resulted in the series 1 situation again where Stella and Chris were all that the was left. Chris had gone into banking like Stella but with less success to show for it. He also lacked Tim's journey story and the last chance argument didn't apply.. Stella probably won on ability - wheras she might well not have if the high flyers hadn't gone already .Its not coincidence that those are the two series where he ends up apologising for who he let go before the final.

I get the reference to Liz, but who are you talking about with the other two? The only other candidates who were fired over Stuart were Melissa and Dan, neither of whom I would describe in that way.

Good points, but, I really don't see whom else could have taken their places apart from Mirriam.

Of the candidates that survived to the later stages; Raj was useless, Ben tended to fade out and hide, Seb was all square jaw no substance. Paul was clearly too arrogant and volatile just not worth the risk. James was ruled out as not apprentice material as they couldn't understand his motivation for applying.

So that leaves Mirriam, I thought she deserved a second chance as she really blossomed through the series.

Would be interested on which candidates you think should have been in the final..

i think Miriam was the contender if he read apprentice to include taking someone who was good and established from some other field and developing their business skills. He had no intelligent reason for firing her when he did. James raised the other issue of what went wrong. The media career interest arguments against him seemed to come from nowhere, and if they were in his CV why was he there? If not where did the idea come from - surely he wouldn't have said so in an unseen bit of the interview or leakfrom off screen discussion? If its his experience being too much , or the wrong type, why is he there at all? He woud have been a very senior looking Apprentice - but if he couldn't win he shouldn't have been allowed to waste his time.

Didn't mean it that literally- that Stuart has to go in when he's in a boardroom before the week he's up against Liz. I meant more that he was the one who Lord Sugar took an interest in as he dumped other options, and things change for future boardrooms if he starts changing who goes to protect other candidates. . Liz is clearly better when he does get to a Stuart- Liz choice. The "will make more and do better elsewhere " (selling multi-million apartments for the Candys) argument applies to her, but it needn't the week he fires her. .

I agree he's got a problem getting there, when he only has certain options each week, but he could have found a better candidate for a younger apprentice than Stuart or Stella if he had looked.wider earlier. There were quite a few firings that series where the You're Fired audience/panel found other people to go, and where people like Chris and Jaimie might not have made it till near the end - if people like Sandeesh had brought the right people into the boardroom. Stella could easily have gone over Truffles leaving Laura, Christopher going was changeable. Joanna got to the final with a good show record (better than Chris) and definitely looked like a business self starter. She failed because he didn't want to pick up an apprentice at her lower level of experience and expertise. Again he could have said that in week one , if he was never going to give her a chance.