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So lots of people think the show is manipulated or fixed.... |
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#1 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,543
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So lots of people think the show is manipulated or fixed....
Do you think that it's a good thing if they do that, so that the "right" people go the furthest in the show?
Also, if no, what would you do to make it fairer? |
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#2 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,852
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The end/aim of the show is finding contestants that can sell. As long as the "ballots" aren't stuffed, I'm fine.
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#3 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,009
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Of course it's manipulated, it's a soap opera. I never vote so it doesn't bother me on any personal level but it makes me see the show as a bit of a joke as the tripe stays and the good goes.
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#4 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Sparkmesh
Posts: 3,099
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It's not fixed, in the sense that the vote totals are real, but it is heavily manipulated. Everything from act placement to song choice and backing support to judges' comments is carefully calibrated. And then there's the fact that the audience doesn't control who goes until the final ~4.
It didn't bother me once I realized there's still a somewhat fair game that's played, just not the surface game. You win by being one of the ~4 acts that appears to have commercial potential. And it's very much possible for a preseason favorite or underdog to move in or out of that pool, pushed there by the audience (see: Little Mix). Truth be told, it's fairly inevitable. The recency effect, for example, is a well documented psychological phenomenon where people recall the last thing in a list the best. And conversely, over the years early slots have been very lethal. So producers have to take account of those things. They'd be fools to give an act they think will be a big draw the death slot in the first live show, before the audience has really connected with them, or to put a deadly dull one last. Plus I think some early experiences made the producers realize that the overall audience was likely to vote for certain acts (particularly older skewing singers with nice but not amazing voices and little star power) and then not buy their albums. |
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#5 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,374
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Quote:
It's not fixed, in the sense that the vote totals are real, but it is heavily manipulated. Everything from act placement to song choice and backing support to judges' comments is carefully calibrated. And then there's the fact that the audience doesn't control who goes until the final ~4.
It didn't bother me once I realized there's still a somewhat fair game that's played, just not the surface game. You win by being one of the ~4 acts that appears to have commercial potential. And it's very much possible for a preseason favorite or underdog to move in or out of that pool, pushed there by the audience (see: Little Mix). Truth be told, it's fairly inevitable. The recency effect, for example, is a well documented psychological phenomenon where people recall the last thing in a list the best. And conversely, over the years early slots have been very lethal. So producers have to take account of those things. They'd be fools to give an act they think will be a big draw the death slot in the first live show, before the audience has really connected with them, or to put a deadly dull one last. Plus I think some early experiences made the producers realize that the overall audience was likely to vote for certain acts (particularly older skewing singers with nice but not amazing voices and little star power) and then not buy their albums. There's nothing wrong with it, I'd say. It IS an entertainment show. Though it's annoying when genuinely good acts like Misha B/Ella suffer and I think the producers feel the same way. |
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#6 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 7,744
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The votes are not fixed, however editing...such as
"This is Oscar, Oscar is one of twenty four and left home at 13 to provide...he's also bringing up dead wife's son from another marriage. Go on Oscar, sing now" *Westlife song* However the public can rebel...as seen with Cheryl's MiniMe and Only Sixteen. |
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#7 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 671
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"Last man in" or LMI as I call it - the pimp slot is well known as being nearly the safest seat to have. Most acts would like this as they are obviously fresh in the voting public mind.
However the section of song that is montage with their vote details (number etc) also has a part to play. A "money note" will get votes, whereas a dull part won't. Clever editing by the production team has a lot to answer for! |
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#8 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Sparkmesh
Posts: 3,099
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Quote:
Clever editing by the production team has a lot to answer for!
In general it's easier to dump an act, thereby protecting other acts, than guarantee a big vote for an act. Other easy "deramping" tactics to spot are a lack of stage support (even with a ballad there will usually be effects), lukewarm judges comments ("you look like you were really having fun up there") and interestingly red/black lighting. If you're interested in more, Sofabet has detailed analyses of the Wagner, Nu Vibe, and Janet Devlin assassinations where the tactics run into the double digits. The Wagner assassination is a completely by the books one that lays out all of the standard tactics, while the Devlin one is interesting because she was set up as a favorite with a passionate regional base and had to be ground down over a number of weeks after she started feuding with the producers. |
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#9 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 907
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The very first thing I would do to make things fairer is to abandon the "categories". They should simply have the best 12 acts they see regardless of who they are. This is a talent show, not a variety show.
The second is I would abandon the "themed" nights on the live shows. They are utterly useless and prove nothing. A brilliant act can get voted off cos they were crap on "Band Night". I believe that they should all be allowed to choose what they want to do from start to finish and demonstrate exactly what got them there in the first place. I mean, Metallica started out as a heavy metal band. No-one ever turned around and said, "What ? Is that all you can do ?". |
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#10 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,374
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Quote:
The very first thing I would do to make things fairer is to abandon the "categories". They should simply have the best 12 acts they see regardless of who they are. This is a talent show, not a variety show.
The second is I would abandon the "themed" nights on the live shows. They are utterly useless and prove nothing. A brilliant act can get voted off cos they were crap on "Band Night". I believe that they should all be allowed to choose what they want to do from start to finish and demonstrate exactly what got them there in the first place. I mean, Metallica started out as a heavy metal band. No-one ever turned around and said, "What ? Is that all you can do ?". |
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#11 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 907
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Quote:
By eliminating the two things (the themed live nights and the judge's categories!) which the X Factor is all about - what's left?!
Whats left is exactly what the show is meant to be. A search for the best talent this country has to offer. This is not a platform for the judges and their opinions. |
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#12 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 4,442
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I don't give a monkeys if it is fixed or manipulated - I just watch the show and enjoy it
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#13 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,374
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Quote:
Whats left is exactly what the show is meant to be. A search for the best talent this country has to offer. This is not a platform for the judges and their opinions.
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#14 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 19,591
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Quote:
Yep.
In general it's easier to dump an act, thereby protecting other acts, than guarantee a big vote for an act. Other easy "deramping" tactics to spot are a lack of stage support (even with a ballad there will usually be effects), lukewarm judges comments ("you look like you were really having fun up there") and interestingly red/black lighting. If you're interested in more, Sofabet has detailed analyses of the Wagner, Nu Vibe, and Janet Devlin assassinations where the tactics run into the double digits. The Wagner assassination is a completely by the books one that lays out all of the standard tactics, while the Devlin one is interesting because she was set up as a favorite with a passionate regional base and had to be ground down over a number of weeks after she started feuding with the producers. |
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#15 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Sparkmesh
Posts: 3,099
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Quote:
Thats really enthralling, have you a link to sofabet, I would love to read it.
Wagner Nu Vibe pre-kill and post-kill Janet Devlin - note the link to Craig Colton as well; a large majority of 2011 eliminations were highly directed kills that were a bit sloppier and more obvious with Simon gone. |
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#16 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,587
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Another one for you here. It's a really interesting site
![]() X Factor 2011 Week 8 Review: Janet Devlin - the Princess Diana of the X Factor http://sofabet.com/2011/11/28/x-fact...-the-x-factor/ |
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#17 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,817
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people really get too wrapped up in the conspiracy theories about the janet devlin exit
the far simpler explanation is she attracted a big following after an outstanding first audition but once the live shows started and she flopped badly, a lot of that following initially gave her the benefit of the doubt and kept voting for her hoping she would live up to that first audition but when that never happened they just lost patience |
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#18 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,664
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The producers were quite arrogant last year in the way they tried to sabotage Christopher Maloney, from the looks of hatred every week from the "judges" (LOL) to the bad song choices and backdrops and ambiguous comments from his so called mentor.
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#19 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: The House of Elle
Posts: 5,397
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Quote:
people really get too wrapped up in the conspiracy theories about the janet devlin exit
the far simpler explanation is she attracted a big following after an outstanding first audition but once the live shows started and she flopped badly, a lot of that following initially gave her the benefit of the doubt and kept voting for her hoping she would live up to that first audition but when that never happened they just lost patience ![]() It's also pretty obvious that the show is not a level playing field for all, some get preferential treatment. And while I can understand the need to manipulate proceedings in order to try and maintain ratings (and therefore advertising revenues), it's still an underhanded and shady practice.
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#20 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 673
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Quote:
people really get too wrapped up in the conspiracy theories about the janet devlin exit
the far simpler explanation is she attracted a big following after an outstanding first audition but once the live shows started and she flopped badly, a lot of that following initially gave her the benefit of the doubt and kept voting for her hoping she would live up to that first audition but when that never happened they just lost patience Logical and well thought out explains too a have no place on this kind of forum!!
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#21 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,051
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All TV shows are manipulated. Even with the most sincere attempt to film a warts and all documentary, without commentary or angle, somne footage is included and some excluded and it becomes manipulated, however unconsciously.
X ~Factor is not even such an attempt, never has been and has never pretended to be. It's an entertainment show and they get more votes, more publicity, more viewers, hence more advertising revenue this way. TV is a business. Edit to say that it's a common missaprehension to assume that any of the owners of the show care who wins. Of course they don't. They care who they can make a story around and create an interest, but the end result? Nope |
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#22 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,051
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Quote:
The very first thing I would do to make things fairer is to abandon the "categories". They should simply have the best 12 acts they see regardless of who they are. This is a talent show, not a variety show.
The second is I would abandon the "themed" nights on the live shows. They are utterly useless and prove nothing. A brilliant act can get voted off cos they were crap on "Band Night". I believe that they should all be allowed to choose what they want to do from start to finish and demonstrate exactly what got them there in the first place. I mean, Metallica started out as a heavy metal band. No-one ever turned around and said, "What ? Is that all you can do ?". Another year, the final 12 might include 4 handsome boys with great voices and 3 not bad looking boys with absolutely spine tingling voices. What would most viewers be thinking? "Oh God, not another cute boy singing Westlife, boring!" |
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#23 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,051
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Quote:
The producers were quite arrogant last year in the way they tried to sabotage Christopher Maloney, from the looks of hatred every week from the "judges" (LOL) to the bad song choices and backdrops and ambiguous comments from his so called mentor.
I remember his name and know exactly who he is, as I do for Kitty from the previous year but not for some of their more talented co-contestants. That's not a bad position to be in for reasonably ok singers who want to make a living out of it. |
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#24 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,374
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Quote:
Get out!
Logical and well thought out explains too a have no place on this kind of forum!! |
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#25 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 673
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Quote:
Get out!
Logical and well thought out explains too a have no place on this kind of forum!!"Explains too" should be explanations, incase anyone was wondering...
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Logical and well thought out explains too a have no place on this kind of forum!!