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Sophie's swan song
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isledance
13-10-2013
Surely it is evident by now that Sophie's charleston is the only dance she will excel at.........
I do think it is time Brendon had another win,but his partner, could not execute ballroom and her samba was lacking depth and energy tonight. Freestyle (which is what Charleston really is) appears to be all that she excels in.......
An Thropologist
13-10-2013
Oooch. That's a tad harsh. I was totally underwhelmed by her samba. It seems one man's lack lustre is another man's cool. But give the girl a chance - its only week 3 and I think she is doing OK.
-Sid-
13-10-2013
The Samba was better than I hoped it would be (when it was announced earlier in the week that that's the dance Sophie would be doing) but not quite as good as the training clips suggested. Somewhere in between.

I think the issue was more to do with style of presentation and mood than the content and execution. Maybe someone with relevant dance knowledge can confirm or refute that. I thought Sophie managed to make the more laid back approach work (but I accept I'm in the minority and that this approach probably won't work with a Cha Cha or Salsa!).

However the steps, timing, musicality, balance (apart from the ending) all seemed fine to me unless I missed things that others saw. Could have had a more pronounced Samba bounce maybe?

Overall I was quite happy with what I saw.
MrJames
13-10-2013
Doesn't swansong mean the final thing that you do? The Charleston wasn't the final dance that she danced.

She said throughout the week that she was struggling with the Samba, which is notoriously the most difficult dance and a tall and lean body shape is known for not being the ideal shape for a latin dance. Despite this, she still got great scores and great comments, particularly for the content and especially for week three.

Ballroom is obviously going to be better suited to her and she could end up creating some particularly special moments. I think she is going to keep getting better and better in the latin and may even become a master of that too.

We shouldn't penalise her just because she had a fantastic dance one week, and a slightly less fantastic dance the next week. It is only week three after all.
ewoodie
13-10-2013
Originally Posted by -Sid-:
“The Samba was better than I hoped it would be (when it was announced earlier in the week that that's the dance Sophie would be doing) but not quite as good as the training clips suggested. Somewhere in between.

I think the issue was more to do with style of presentation and mood than the content and execution. Maybe someone with relevant dance knowledge can confirm or refute that. I thought Sophie managed to make the more laid back approach work (but I accept I'm in the minority and that this approach probably won't work with a Cha Cha or Salsa!).

However the steps, timing, musicality, balance (apart from the ending) all seemed fine to me unless I missed things that others saw. Could have had a more pronounced Samba bounce maybe?”

I'm with you Did. I liked Sophie's samba. I liked the way they began the dance. Good choreography and dancing throughout, I thought.
JohnCurry
13-10-2013
She might be like Cherie Lunghi, who was graceful and classy in the ballroom but struggled in the latin.
Alli-F
13-10-2013
Not a massive a Sophie fan, the mood of every dance is the same, cool and quirky, but way to write a girl off.

I have no doubt that she will make at least the semis, almost certainly the final and I wouldn't be surprised if she won.
An Thropologist
13-10-2013
Originally Posted by -Sid-:
“The Samba was better than I hoped it would be (when it was announced earlier in the week that that's the dance Sophie would be doing) but not quite as good as the training clips suggested. Somewhere in between.

I think the issue was more to do with style of presentation and mood than the content and execution. Maybe someone with relevant dance knowledge can confirm or refute that. I thought Sophie managed to make the more laid back approach work (but I accept I'm in the minority and that this approach probably won't work with a Cha Cha or Salsa!).

However the steps, timing, musicality, balance (apart from the ending) all seemed fine to me unless I missed things that others saw. Could have had a more pronounced Samba bounce maybe?”

Well I am no samba expert but do dance all the other Latin American styles in some shape or form and in my opinion cool and laid back is at odds with the style of the dance.

When the pros use a characterisation which is different to the one that belongs with the dance style it is usually to masque piss poor dancing. But Sophie isn't bad so there is no need to disguise her dancing with such distractions.

For me the mood/style are integral to the dance and if you mess with this element, the essence of the dance goes for a burton too. One could dance a waltz in the style of an excited terrier or a pantomime horse but that's not what a waltz is supposed to be like.
Pet Monkey
13-10-2013
It was hard to judge because the Charleston was so amazing. The relative messes things around. I watched Rachel and thought she'd improved. I watched Sophie and thought she'd slipped. But which actually was the best?

Plus samba is more difficult... I think Rachel's personal mini-breakthrough was in getting more the spirit of the dance (still with errors). Sophie got into the feel of it in parts but not all the way through. Her training videos had made me hope for more.

But it's way too early to say Charleston is her only dance. I imagine a fantastic Quickstep, a very clean-looking jive... It's very early in the comp to say she's reached her limit.
Pet Monkey
13-10-2013
Originally Posted by An Thropologist:
“Well I am no samba expert but do dance all the other Latin American styles in some shape or form and in my opinion cool and laid back is at odds with the style of the dance.

When the pros use a characterisation which is different to the one that belongs with the dance style it is usually to masque piss poor dancing. But Sophie isn't bad so there is no need to disguise her dancing with such distractions.

For me the mood/style are integral to the dance and if you mess with this element, the essence of the dance goes for a burton too. One could dance a waltz in the style of an excited terrier or a pantomime horse but that's not what a waltz is supposed to be like.”

very funny

What did you think about Louis's samba last year? (Was that a samba, the cool cool dance that started by the bar?)
fabulist
13-10-2013
She was terrible tonight. It's a shame that the BBC are so desperate for the show to be at least slightly competitive that they will have the judges treat the public like idiots. I particularly liked their spin job on her "performance" trying to sell it as a cool and relaxed style. Erm no, she offered nothing, no fun, no effort. Brendan dragged her limp, lifeless body around like a corpse, in between her clumsy flat footed and out of time steps. For me, you could even argue that Dave was better tonight. At least he entertained (or at least tried).

I have nothing against her but when you combine a weak cast with a dance like the charleston (where even the likes of chris hollins and nicky byrne can impress) then there's always the danger of talking yourself into a corner with short sighted praise.
An Thropologist
13-10-2013
Originally Posted by fabulist:
“She was terrible tonight. It's a shame that the BBC are so desperate for the show to be at least slightly competitive that they will have the judges treat the public like idiots. I particularly liked their spin job on her "performance" trying to sell it as a cool and relaxed style. Erm no, she offered nothing, no fun, no effort. Brendan dragged her limp, lifeless body around like a corpse, in between her clumsy flat footed and out of time steps. For me, you could even argue that Dave was better tonight. At least he entertained (or at least tried).

I have nothing against her but when you combine a weak cast with a dance like the charleston (where even the likes of chris hollins and nicky byrne can impress) then there's always the danger of talking yourself into a corner with short sighted praise.”

I think this might be where she lost the spirit of samba. I wouldn't go so far as describing her as a corpse but have a vague recollection she didn't engage her core. (Translation -floppy from rib cage to hip).

However I might be jumping to conclusions because I have marvelled in the past that so many of Brendan's partners have this issue and it has crossed my mind whether it Is something he does or doesn't do that is the common factor. Maybe he can't bring himself to have the pelvic floor conversation - Nah that can't be it.


You know Monkey - I can't for the life of me remember Louis' samba now.
Pet Monkey
13-10-2013
Originally Posted by An Thropologist:
“I think this might be where she lost the spirit of samba. I wouldn't go so far as describing her as a corpse but have a vague recollection she didn't engage her core. (Translation -floppy from rib cage to hip).

However I might be jumping to conclusions because I have marvelled in the past that so many of Brendan's partners have this issue and it has crossed my mind whether it Is something he does or doesn't do that is the common factor. Maybe he can't bring himself to have the pelvic floor conversation - Nah that can't be it.


You know Monkey - I can't for the life of me remember Louis' samba now.”

He did that side-steppy, fast, lean-against-the-bar thing. That's if it's not another dance entirely that I'm remembering. It was not a hot, party samba but a kind of cool almost menacing feel... I'm sure some of the people who supported him last year will be able to say. But maybe it is possible to go against the usual emotional tenor of a dance???
coppertop1
13-10-2013
Originally Posted by fabulist:
“She was terrible tonight. It's a shame that the BBC are so desperate for the show to be at least slightly competitive that they will have the judges treat the public like idiots. I particularly liked their spin job on her "performance" trying to sell it as a cool and relaxed style. Erm no, she offered nothing, no fun, no effort. Brendan dragged her limp, lifeless body around like a corpse, in between her clumsy flat footed and out of time steps. For me, you could even argue that Dave was better tonight. At least he entertained (or at least tried).

I have nothing against her but when you combine a weak cast with a dance like the charleston (where even the likes of chris hollins and nicky byrne can impress) then there's always the danger of talking yourself into a corner with short sighted praise.”

Well way to go with rose tinted glasses , ,Dave absolutely was not better than her tonight, she did a huge variety of steps in a very cool laid back way, .

Dave bless his heRt tried but stomped about a lot , it is fine if you don't like Sophie's style but it is foolish to now acknowledge the huge technical ability that she has that Dave could never bring in a million years.

It is also fine if you don't like her why not just say that rather than spout rubbish about Dave being better.
earthling13
13-10-2013
She danced well this week, just not quite the same standard as last week. I think she will be there for a while yet but there's something about her I just can't warm to. A touch of the Denise Van Outens maybe?
coppertop1
13-10-2013
I don't think so, no banter with her, she is just a quiet person, not everyone is "on " or bubbly all the time

I like her as she loves her husband and kids, she knows who she is and is working hard to produce unique dances , choreographed really well by Brendan.

If you want OTT happy smiley on persona you are not going to get that with Sophie.

If you appreciate fun and quirky , with cool and different then that's what you have with Sophie, I get more of a Holly persona from her, but better in that she is not a lazy moo. I love them both.
gerry23
13-10-2013
We always see a lot of celebs struggling with the "mood" of the dance. Dances such as the samba, salsa, cha-cha, rhumba take them way out of their comfort zone - looking sexy, or sensual in front of millions of people is something a lot of people would struggle with if they're not overtly this type of person, especially towards the beginning of the show. Sophie has perfected this "too cool for school" image and I think it's going to be hard for her to break free from it. I reckon she's going to get technically sounder - she certainly can dance but she'll need to match her personality to her technique.
fefster
13-10-2013
Give her a chance, it's only week 3. At least she has the opportunity to grow and is not the finished article like Natalie.
hannah_337
13-10-2013
How, after three dances can you say that she will only be good in the Charleston. There are so many dances she hasn't tried yet. Her samba did seem a little safe and lacking in energy, but it had content. And I thought her waltz was really great. She is one of about 3 people that I look forward to what she's going to do each week.
SaraV1308
13-10-2013
Thought Sophie's samba was a bit underwhelming. Didn't like the costume (and I saw it very up close). The body isolation was the best bit (and she looked happy and relaxed up to this bit). After that she seemed a bit tense - it didnt look very natural - she is obviously not a Latin party girl.

She obviously rehearsed right up to going live - as she and Brendan were practicing samba rolls and running promenades in the marquee right next to the studio as I popped to the loo as Tess was doing some pre-records just before going live.
dancingbearbear
13-10-2013
How on earth can the Charleston have been her swan song when she's still in the competition?
tinselgirl
13-10-2013
Originally Posted by fabulist:
“She was terrible tonight. It's a shame that the BBC are so desperate for the show to be at least slightly competitive that they will have the judges treat the public like idiots. I particularly liked their spin job on her "performance" trying to sell it as a cool and relaxed style. Erm no, she offered nothing, no fun, no effort. Brendan dragged her limp, lifeless body around like a corpse, in between her clumsy flat footed and out of time steps. For me, you could even argue that Dave was better tonight. At least he entertained (or at least tried).

I have nothing against her but when you combine a weak cast with a dance like the charleston (where even the likes of chris hollins and nicky byrne can impress) then there's always the danger of talking yourself into a corner with short sighted praise.”

As a member of the GBP who knows nothing about the technical aspects of dancing - I am stunned by fabulist's comment ! I am not a particular Sophie supporter and appreciate that Sophie!s samba was not traditional, but IMO she did brilliantly for the 3rd week of an amateur dance competition. She took it seriously, tried to do what she was taught, put her own spin on it and added to the general overall entertainment of the programme. Maybe it wasn't as knockout as the Charleston, but that!s all to the good as far as I am concerned.

SCD is so much better when people evolve and grow with the odd set back on the way. Starting off as Natalie has done looking as though she could easily stand in for one of the pro dancers if one was suddenly taken ill makes for dull, dull, dull television.

I'm loving this series so far.
Spin turn
13-10-2013
Originally Posted by -Sid-:
“The Samba was better than I hoped it would be (when it was announced earlier in the week that that's the dance Sophie would be doing) but not quite as good as the training clips suggested. Somewhere in between.

I think the issue was more to do with style of presentation and mood than the content and execution. Maybe someone with relevant dance knowledge can confirm or refute that. I thought Sophie managed to make the more laid back approach work (but I accept I'm in the minority and that this approach probably won't work with a Cha Cha or Salsa!).

However the steps, timing, musicality, balance (apart from the ending) all seemed fine to me unless I missed things that others saw. Could have had a more pronounced Samba bounce maybe?

Overall I was quite happy with what I saw.”

Tend to agree. Generally speaking her samba wasn't bad at all I thought. Lots of content and reasonably well executed. It would be easy to pick holes in the technique, but then it is early days. Maybe the mood wasn't exactly carnival/party dance. I.e. She could have let go more, but I think that's asking for quite a lot at this stage.

Cha cha is a sharper, flirty dance, but very slinky (sort of oily) hip, leg movements. The common issue with Strictly cha chas is the lack of floor contact, which for the basic movements and much of the more advanced should be contnuous and very "into the floor".
musicangel
13-10-2013
Originally Posted by fabulist:
“She was terrible tonight. It's a shame that the BBC are so desperate for the show to be at least slightly competitive that they will have the judges treat the public like idiots. I particularly liked their spin job on her "performance" trying to sell it as a cool and relaxed style. Erm no, she offered nothing, no fun, no effort. Brendan dragged her limp, lifeless body around like a corpse, in between her clumsy flat footed and out of time steps. For me, you could even argue that Dave was better tonight. At least he entertained (or at least tried).

I have nothing against her but when you combine a weak cast with a dance like the charleston (where even the likes of chris hollins and nicky byrne can impress) then there's always the danger of talking yourself into a corner with short sighted praise.”

That is the most un educated post about dance quality I have ever seen on this forum... Dragging her around?? Have you danced a samba a or learnt it in a week.. The opening post is appauling and nice to see Sophie got positive comments following it, it wasn't a ten but for week three was a good effort I really hope they get to finals

To then say I have nothing against her but... You obviously do, I remember Chris Charleston as overrated and full of silly moves, nickys I don't even remember, sophies was classic and in another week would have been all tens
musicangel
13-10-2013
Originally Posted by tinselgirl:
“As a member of the GBP who knows nothing about the technical aspects of dancing - I am stunned by fabulist's comment ! I am not a particular Sophie supporter and appreciate that Sophie!s samba was not traditional, but IMO she did brilliantly for the 3rd week of an amateur dance competition. She took it seriously, tried to do what she was taught, put her own spin on it and added to the general overall entertainment of the programme. Maybe it wasn't as knockout as the Charleston, but that!s all to the good as far as I am concerned.

SCD is so much better when people evolve and grow with the odd set back on the way. Starting off as Natalie has done looking as though she could easily stand in for one of the pro dancers if one was suddenly taken ill makes for dull, dull, dull television.

I'm loving this series so far.”

good post
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