Can I have some of what you had for breakfast please?

I don't think Dave can learn to dance in the time span of the show. He has shown he can recall a routine and deliver it without mistakes but hasn't shown any consistent technique. His foot placing is really bad and I'm sure that focus on that and core training would help improve everything, even-2-ally.

Satan was a fallen angel, and lots of angels are hairy (see : Susan Boyle). Unless he want bald on the way down...

LOL This is on topic? Would love to be about when you go off topic!

But bIkers can dance, I can testify to that. I have known a number of very passable leads who are bikers. I have even danced with them while they were wearing their biker's boots without getting my toes crushed.

Whether TV chef's can dance or not remains to be seen. The track record is not good so far.

Forgive me asking - and I do not mean to question your beliefs at all - but have you actually taught dance, or are you someone who simply loves it?

I don't mind if you'd rather not say. I am just curious - not critical.

He's not in the same category as Widdecombe as a person, a Strictly contestant or... just anything. She refused to even attempt to learn most of the basics of the Latin dances because she deemed them "inappropriate". From what I've seen of their training Dave has never refused to do anything Karen has asked of him. Until proven otherwise I will continue to believe that he's trying his best but just doesn't get it and isn't afraid to look ridiculous trying.

I think this is very well put. I started dancing because I really wanted to do it, but I had to learn to listen to the music, move properly instead of stomping around. I could so easily have been written off as having no sense of rhythm, balance etc. Admittedly I didn't have anything physically stopping me, except a lack of core strength and bad habits in how I walked and held myself (and I assume that's the same with Dave). I really appreciate the teachers who had the patience to teach me properly, one in particular who still teaches me. And it is great to go somewhere new sometimes and see people actually quite enthusiastic about teaching me (or they're good actors ). So never write anyone off unless there is an insuperable physical obstacle, but they must really want to do it. The mark of a good teacher is someone who can make something of a student who is not a natural, rather than always taking the easy option, and many top dancers and teachers still enjoy doing that.

I still struggle with moving on from instructions to feeling it, but it is improving.

But in Strictly timescales and expectation, no, I don't think it is going to happen for Dave.

I'm struggling to think of a worse male dancer (talking about the dancing not the person: not sure how those two got conflated) than Dave.

Yep. Me too. Who was that bad tempered chef who was so useless?

Once it's over I forget every series. Was it Gary Rhodes. he was seriously bad, but I think Dave is worse.

Love this, An Thropologist - you're definitely a 'glass half full' sort of person.


Hear, hear.

I realise that Dave has now become the 'joke contestant'. I love him, but I felt quite nauseous when Tess dubbed him 'The People's Champion' yesterday, because it has rather condemned him to playing this role until his inevitable departure.

Maybe I've read it all wrong, but I felt from the beginning that Dave wanted to get it right and do a good job. Whether it's the format of the show that doesn't allow the time to 'feel' the dance, or whether Karen has tried and doesn't think he has it in him, I can't tell - I do sort of feel that she has no choice at this stage other than to choreograph comedic routines.

I cried with laughter at his paso yesterday - of course it was a parody of a paso, and I can totally understand how it would piss off a real dancer like sofakat, but I found it hugely entertaining. I'd rather watch that than the mediocre dances that hovered around the middle of the leaderboard like so many spare tyres on a middle-aged man.

This is all about that "Strictly isn't a level playing field" again.

You have the likes of Dave competing against someone like Natalie. Obviously, he's not going to be able to. And unfortunately, someone who simply tries to learn to dance but is hopeless at it isn't going to stick around. The viewers might give him credit for making a genuine effort but they're still going to vote for someone who's better/prettier/wittier etc.

So what's to do? Do you take it seriously, dance a bad, dull but actual dance and run the genuine risk that you're going to be first out? Or do you take the comedy route to at least try to stick around for as long as you can? If Dave actually tries, most people think he's boring. Many comments posted after his AS were evidence of this (Bless him, he tried but it wasn't as good as his cha cha - btw I'm paraphrasing).

I'm not saying I agree with what he and Karen appear to be doing but I do understand why they're doing it.

He did. Perhaps they made a comic routine after Karen realised he wasn't picking up the technique. I think that if he draws a ballroom dance next week there will be more seriousness on display.

I don't believe in miracles. Why would he want to learn to dance. He is doing very well without bothering to do that.

I don't mind answering. The answer is yes and no. Not in the official sense of being a ballet teacher or IDTA member. But I do teach even though I probably shouldn't. However I don't pass myself off as a dance teacher more as a facilitator of a social activity. The people I help teach are those that are looking for a pleasant activity to get them out one night a week, a bit of exercise, a social hobby etc.

I am evangelistic about dance having come to it late in life (I wanted to dance as a child but parents couldn't afford lessons) and found it to be the most joyful, life affirming thing I ever did. I didn't so much jump on the teaching bandwagon as got press-ganged onto it and to justify it to myself I think of it as helping people get fitter and happier as opposed to considering myself as teaching people to become dancers. But I am (as you may have noticed!) a bit embarrassed by my lack of credentials.

Having said that I am booked each year for a few weeks by a proper dance teacher at a performing arts college to show her students the basics in AT. The teacher that books me knows I lack the formalities but books me just the same.

Thank you Pet Monkey - Likewise

James Martin did OK in series 3, finishing in 4th place and just missing out on the Final. Was that not good enough for you? OK, his latin dancing might not have been up to much but he was pretty good at ballroom.

OK he is more fun than Widdy. But what I mean is his popularity with the general public is as high as Widdy's was. But she didn't have any redeeming features. Dave makes me laugh and I think he is a good comedy actor.

Oh yes he was good I had forgotten him. Apologies to James. He danced with Camilla didn't he? Thanks Angela you proved that TV chef and dance are not mutually exclusive!

I'm not convinced you can teach someone musicality and rhythm. I think its innate in some people but not in others. Len hit the nail on the head when he said that Mark "gets it". Whilst Mark may not be the best dancer, he does pick up the spirit of each dance, he does have a bit of grace and rhythm and his timing is OK. I feel Mark is using his comedic acting skills to add value to his not too good dancing, whilst Dave is acting the fool to mask his complete inability to dance. Someone said you can teach someone to dance but you can't teach them to be a dancer. Spot on, same as you can learn to hit the right keys on a piano but you can't learn to be a pianist.

James was creditable at ballroom, OK his latin was not so much. But blimey, when you look at some of his output and compare some of his judge's batterings he's positively Wayne Sleep compared with a few of this year's males who are getting soft soaped to death!

Had James danced a Foxtrot lke Patrick's he would have been slaughtered. Really. Slaughtered.

I don't agree, actually. IMO he's far from stupid and I think he is working hard, respecting Karen and trying his best. I think he does have musicality, sensitivity and timing but I think he's one of those people who's not terribly good with spatial awareness of their own body (I am the same - hideously clumsy and find it very difficult to remember step sequences, though I can learn music by ear quite quickly).

He needs some kind of breakthrough, as one of the judges said to stop him stomping, to make him feel the steps with his feet.

Deleted - duplicate

Doesn't it depend on why someone is not "getting it"? Sometimes our upbringing inhibits expression. So you may still find a dancer hidden inside an apparent non-dancer. Or you may not.

But there's a lot to do with Dave. I think he started out trying, looking at the original practice videos, but has given up now

It's all set up for a couple of weeks time when he has a waltz or a foxtrot and, after a less clownish performance, the judges praise him for actually dancing....which is when he'll get knocked out.

He can learn to dance with his own version of dancing. But the type of dancing that abides by certain techniques and styles,..well, how can any of us really know.

Good for you It is life affirming and I am delighted you found it.

AT is one of the few dances you can learn by simply re-focusing on how you to walk - and it does not demand athletics, or a perfect figure, nor does it discriminate against age or body shape. As you and I know, it is about The Walk.

It is the only dance of its kind that is simple but can be complex and challenging if you want it to be, and comes with extraordinary music. Canaro can reduce me to tears and Gotan can have me whizzing across the floor!

The other reason I think it appeals is that you can go as far as you want to with AT and enjoy it just for itself, or study and learn its complexities - as some of us do - and realise that we never stop learning. It is a truly social dance.

Long may you enjoy it.