I was watching some of the episodes from S2-3 and noticed something I had not noticed before and it was Martin's reaction to Louisa when she was nice to him. It's almost as if he fell for Louisa because she was the only woman (besides AJ) who paid attention to him or showed him a level of love/concern that others did not. He was hard and gruff with everyone including Louisa and Aunt Joan at times, but these two women were the only ones he seemed to soften for. The end of S6 gave me hope we will see that side of him again as the look on his face in surgery really softened up. By the time he and Louisa were in the scene together at the end, they both realized they've got some serious stuff to work on and that it's time to get serious about their love and their marriage. Both have a lot to lose if they don't get it together.

As far as Edith goes, I always thought it seemed they had a relationship of convenience or just to have a relationship, and it was not a relationship of love. EM personality just didn't seem nurturing at all, whereas Louisa's does and that's what softens our gruff Doc.

Not to mention that he told her she smelled like cheese! That was his opinion in a nutshell..

Martin to,d Efith that her perfume smelled like cheese and Edith made a comment that there would be no more treatments for the infertile couple who gave it to her. Martin told Louisa that her perfume smelled like urine, and she broke up with him. Two different levels of education and sophistication

So true, and Mrs. T used that word since she clearly saw herself as better for Doc than a single woman school teacher. After all, she was a medical professional and could finally have an intelligent conversation!!! Oh, wait.....Louisa is a trollop for getting pregnant, but Mrs. T. is ok as a married woman chasing another man. Bit of a double standard there, I'd say........

Yes, I agree.

Also, I think there was a scene where Edith told Martin that his breath smelled bad and you then see him in the bathroom, examining his teeth, or brushing them, or something. But the point is, he appeared OK with the criticism.

I don't make any judgement here -- just point out that the writers put in these two parallels for our amusement.

New Park I think Edith and Martin did not interpret criticism in the same way Louisa does. They are both clinical (thus my reference to different type of education) were used to the larger world of London (sophistication level) and were not rattled by a straight forward comments from each other. I think Martin was used to saying anything to Edith when they were a couple as he was used to treating his London patients as he does those in Port Wenn. I think he was astonished when Louisa reacted to his comment about her breath in the taxi. If it had been Edith, she probably would have said "I've ruled out an esophogeal problem, Ellingham, I'll try doubling up on the mouthwash." Long way of saying he wasn't used to women reacting to his rude comments as Louisa does. And the writers made great use of the differences in the two women.

I watched this sequence against today. It reminded me of a tennis match. After dinner he says, "What is that perfume you're wearing?".....it smells of cheese. She says, "your breath smells metallic, Ellingham, you could be jaundiced.." I got the feeling that they were exchanging shots in an insulting, and unloving form of a match. That is not a normal way to interact. If she gave him lessons like that in deportment, she did him a disservice, because he had no other real lessons from anyone, except for the goodness and sensitivity he learned from Auntie Joan. Too bad.

When I read the bolded words, they gave me pause. I've read similar words in other posts and on other sites, so this is a general thought I've had as a result.

It makes me wonder why we (including myself) have come to think of Martin as not having other influences in his life. His schooling must have given him some social graces. His time in college must have given him ample opportunity to see the way people behaved. He had a relationship with Edith, whom he wanted to marry. He made it in a respected field into a position of responsibility and the world that doctors revolve in. Even on first coming to PW, he seems like a fairly regular person thrown into a very different situation from what he is used to.

Yes, we've been led to see his parents as vile people, but can they really be held responsible for the way Martin is? As though there were no other influences in his life for social behavior? I suppose this brings me back dangerously close to the Asperger's thing, and I'm also not willing to go there. People can be awkward socially simply by being more of an introvert than an extrovert. Doc understood what Louisa wanted when he was washing his car. And he asked her out. But it took all his gumption to get there. The intimation that "we don't want JH to be shy, do we?" is that Martin is shy. What is "shy" about? Or is that a euphemism for "stunted"?

Maybe the answer is that Martin has learned enough to get through a good deal of his adult life, and has now run into a situation that taxes his ability to cope. AJ reminds him of who he was, he falls for Louisa, and all combine to make him angrier and angrier until in S6, we see depression (anger turned inward) set in.

I'm rambling from one thing to another, so I'll leave off here.

Susie. You are spot on. I interact with many people like Martin and just consider them smart but introverted or shy. I have worked with people from the top public schools in Britain and they are often introverted but still are courteous. In meetings they always stand when women enter a conference room and say please and thank you generously despite their "social awkwardness."

I hate to sound classist but when Martin came to Port Wenn he may have thought he did not have to be polite to the lower class villagers, thus his rudeness to them. Recall his speech at Pintire Castle. He does not like the villagers but his ingrained duty of care forces him to tolerate them.

Recall that scene at Imperial Hospital with his mentor, Robert. His entire demeanor changed. He stood taller, he looked in command, he spoke to Robert in the way he would have spoken to his colleagues. Terse but believable. He almost smiled when Robert brought up old colleagues and their reaction to his return He was ready to return to the life he understood

In Martin's next scene he encounters a villager on the train and is immediately rude and dismissive until the heart attack when he is forced to care for the man by pronouncing him dead

The real problem is that he was frustrated by his phobia and his fall from grace. The only relief he had from the turmoil was Louisa and he was frustrated by his feelings for her. He didn't like the villagers but she was one of them. She was Ina gray area. He had dealt with women, probably mostly like Edith, his entire life. But how to deal with this outlier in a village of people he did not like or understand.

I believe it takes time for depression to reach the point of a medical crisis. The depression has always been there but we didn't see it as Martin contained it by being grumpy. He at least had the sanctuary of his cottage, books and clocks after the patients were treated

After the wedding, he could not retreat to those comforts. He was nearly 50 years old and now had a wife and child pulling him away from what had comforted him in the past. Rather than being comforted through their presence, he was annoyed by them. He had no place to retreat. I won't go to Asperger's Syndrome either, but a classic symptom is inability to withstand the chaotic situations depicted in Series 6

The depression grew into a full physical condition with weight loss, insomnia and loss of appetite. Martin ruled out physical maladies, and Aunt Ruth had to provide the diagnosis he tried to ignore.

In Series 7 the writers must reconcile how Martin and Louisa interact but more importantly how he can learn to tolerate the villagers. He is not going back to London and must reconcile his feelings toward them as much as Louisa. A significant step forward was his apology to the singer. To me that seemed like the well raised Martin Ellingham treating a patient completely and not in the limited way of his duty of care

I agree so much with both of the above posts. His demeanor change when he is with someone he codes as his social equal is quite marked. You can see another brief snippet of this when he talks on the phone in the second episode of S5, when he is arranging for a longer stay in Portwenn. Also, in general when he speaks to Chris Parsons. I also think it explains a lot of his interactions with Edith -- she is a woman of a kind he is quite familiar with and even comfortable with. Their banter is clinical, as was pointed out earlier, and quite easy, so much in contrast to the way he communicates with Louisa.

What it may boil down to, is that he needs to learn genuine humility, as opposed to anger at himself for his "fall from grace" and anger at the village and the villagers whom he must feel to be largely instruments in his daily humiliation. And also a humility which is not based on an inward sense that he doesn't deserve to be happy. I agree, his apology to the hippie patient that he offended is pivotal, and does as much as anything else to indicate to us his intent to change.

I also agree with Bloodphobia's analysis of how his breakdown came about. To a person who is used to controlling his anxieties and even depression by a tight control over his environment and highly structured leisure time, being in the middle of a living situation that he could in no way control or order must have been excruciating, in some respects.

I don't know how plausible this all is, but I think this is what the writers meant to get across.

Thanks for bringing this up, Susie. I know I am veering off course a little here, but I remember when I first saw the scene about not wanting JH to be "shy," it actually made my blood boil. LE is a teacher, as you and I are, and here she is speaking of shyness in a pejorative manner! Her career would have had her working with children of every conceivable temperament and disposition. As a professional, she should regard "shyness" as a neutral trait, not a negative one. As a mother, she should be prepared to accept her son's natural temperament, whatever it may be. Very disappointing.

And what was worse was how her remark came across as a slam at DM. I always thought loving a man meant you accept his faults and foibles, but in 6 seasons, I have yet to see L do that. This scene made it look as though she has finally given up on changing DM, but she is gonna make damn sure their son doesn't turn out like his daddy, and she's letting him know it! And then her use of the word "we," as an adult typically speaks to a child, not another adult. Again, very disappointing.

Well, that's my rant for the day

Zarwen. I second your rant.

Definitely not one of Louisa's better moments. Besides the points you mention, there is the silliness of imagining that a "play group" for infants too young for even parallel play will do much for JH's socializing skills, plus knowing that her husband will be very uncomfortable in the situation and pressing him to do it anyway, for no very good reason evidently except that she could.

I thought, though, that they might have had a conversation about Martin's own painful childhood experiences of being "shy and introverted," given the significant look she gave him and that he appeared to recognize what she was talking about. In the most generous interpretation, which few think that Louisa deserves, she may be wanting her child to learn enough social skills early to avoid a painful feeling of being left out and the butt of classroom bullying. She went about it the wrong way, but I think there's at least a possibility that she wanted to spare her son the same painful school experiences that Martin experienced.

Because, surely, as teachers you know that shy and introverted children are often the ones who are made (more) unhappy by teasing of other children and the very painful feeling that comes with exclusion. So helping them learn a few social skills early on may be a way to help them avoid this.

However, that is perhaps giving Louisa too much credit. She did say that she didn't want him to grow up to be "shy and introverted" which indicates that she might not want to accept a shy and introverted child (or husband) for what they are, but insists on molding them to her way of thinking that they should be. IT comes down to her insistence on trying to change Martin.

Does she do this because she's convinced he'd be better off if he did things her way, or because she's uncomfortable socially with the reactions his behavior elicits? Not clear.

Martin was socially isolated to the extreme. I don't think it is too much to ask a father to take his son to a sing-a-long activity. It has been proven that babies do get a lot from these types of groups. You can see how the much the baby that Martin was holding enjoyed it.

Putting him on the spot to make a speech was unfair of her, but the playtime activity was completely appropriate.

No argument about the benefits of playgroups, but asking a dad to do it is another story. I don't know a man on the planet who would do such a thing without duress, so DM's reluctance was normal. LE was acting as if JH would be permanently damaged if he missed it even once. More silliness on LE's part, IMHO.

Since we're talking about the playgroup, is there anyone besides me who thinks Millie's choice of "Nobody Likes Me" was bizarrely inappropriate for this age group?

me, for one.

Not even the idea of a Mom or Dad taking the baby to play group.....Martin is a busy professional whose lunchtime is a respite from the pressure of his job and probably catch up on office "housework". Maybe if it had been his day off or something.

The song......just part of the script........appropriate for the Doc in their way of thinking.

Uh, it is 2014. Dads do lots of things they didn't do even 10 years ago. Even Doc Martin was progressive enough to have a male child minder.

Have to sort of agree here. I recently did a storytime in a bookstore, and ended up with two four year olds brought by their daddies, who were so totally engaged and lovely, it made my heart swell.

But I also realize there are still some Neanderthals in existence as well.

I have always been quite pleased with how much care of JH the Doc takes on, and I do think he has JH's welfare at heart as well as Louisa's when he tries to get her to stay home with JH and for both their sakes. He is a man stuck between the old ways and the new though, not really comfortable in either.

But a child minder was necessary due to them both working, and he didn't go all the way to a live-in nanny. (If they had, I'd have loved to see how the DM builders worked another bedroom into that house!!!) But I don't think we've heard of Doc having a nanny either, have we?

Only in fanfics

Well, if Port Wenn is that progressive, we should have seen a few other dads at the playgroup besides DM.

They don't have wives like Louisa?

And it is Port Wenn, after all.........

They were all out on the boats fishing!

Mofromco, you make a good point here, and one that I had forgotten. L was not in the routine of taking JH to playgroup herself---it was the nanny's job! At least, during the school year, anyway. Still think it was not appropriate for her to demand it of DM. If he was covering for the nanny, then JH's activities should have been at his discretion, not hers. Given DM's busy schedule, some one-on-one time with his son wouldn't have been unreasonable.

Susie, you are hilarious!