That's a very good point, Mofromco. In fact, it comes home to roost at the S3 finale, when DM has learned that if he cannot make LG happy and if she cannot make him happy, they should not marry, instead of feeling that he must marry as he cannot be happy without her. In her own way, LG learned the same.

I suppose DM did bear to be without her when LG took off to teach in London; we are not sure of what type of life he had, but he was apparently still a very high functioning physician and wasn't just sitting around all day in his "y fronts". So, he could bear to be without her, although he did miss her deeply. LG seemed similarly miserable in London, in her "bed-sit", even worse when they let her go when her out of wedlock pregnancy began showing. So, our characters are stronger than they think, but still, it was a pretty miserable 9 months for both of them.

Is LG really that nurturing to DM? When she brought him that breakfast tray in S6, it was very sweet and touching, but have we really seen that many actions of that sort by LG directed to DM? Mostly, LG is over-reactive to DM's inappropriate errors of romance, and shuts him out; she has tantrums and she breaks up with him and/or runs away. At least, when I think of her interactions with DM, that's been a fairly decent amount of them.

We have her putting the flower in his suit jacket, which was also very sweet. We have her putting her arm around his in S5 after he returns from his visit to AJ's home. Strewn throughout the six seasons we can pick out a rare moment when she nurtured him. What are other moments you all can think of, areas in the series where we see LG really being nurturing to DM, that is, being supportive and encouraging, protecting, (as per the dictionary definition).

She nurtures her students much more, I think. She is very good as a teacher and Head Mistress in that regard.

It's not only due to education and sophistication--it's about having a sense of humor, and not being extremely over-sensitive, which people without education and sophistication can also have as traits of their personality.

That's a good rant!

Excellent commentary this evening, Mona!

Concerning other instances of L being nurturing: well, there is the S1 finale in which LG asks DM about his hemophobia and then listens to his account in a supportive, nonjudgmental, noncritical way. There was also the episode "Out of the Woods" in which, at the end when DM comes back, she tells him she was worried about him. She also behaves in a nurturing way when DM passes out drunk, although DM of course was unaware of it. As much as I hated the non-wedding episode, L does have a nice moment when she asks DM on the phone how he is doing.

After S3 I have a hard time thinking of any more, other than some of the scenes after AJ's death and then in S6E1 when she turned the gun on Bellamy and demanded he apologize for his rudeness to DM.

This is fun! Anyone else?
Last edited by Zarwen : 04-06-2014 at 07:13

Well, she does bring him the hangover remedy at the end of S2E8.

She pats him on the cheek after Mrs. Wilson slaps him.

She brings Delphine's mother over to apologize to him.

She gives him space to get on with his doctoring at end of S5E1, instead of going home to rest and feed JH. ( I consider that nurturing, b/c she is recognizing what is central to him and facilitating it)

Very broadly -at the end of S4, she welcomes him with open arms (eventually) to the birth of their child and literally offers him the child and a renewed opportunity to be a parent -- surely nurturing in the sense that he is being given an enormous opportunity for growth and emotional development, which he does profit from.

Even more broadly, her willingness to try to engage with him in an intimate relationship, despite his many difficulties with intimacy, and her own inability to cope and tendency to run away, is nurturing his capacity to become emotionally adult, instead of a stunted adolescent..

I guess it depends on what you think nurturing is -- it's not all just sweet gestures and pampering.

Here's another question:

How nurturable do you think Martin Ellingham is, on a scale of 1 to 10 where
1 means: purrs like a cat when his ears are stroked and 10 means: curls up in a ball like a hedgehog when someone comes too close

My vote: he secretly wants to have his ears stroked (and his belly rubbed) but is most likely to curl up in a spiky ball to pretend (to others and himself) that he doesn't want and need this.

Interesting....another fan friend and I just recently discussed an issue that relates to this. Let's see....we are able to establish the fact that ME and LG were attracted to each other almost from the first time they met. Certainly there was chemistry even at the primary care board meeting. It was like a lightening strike. Various frustrated flirtatiions and aborted attempts at physical contact followed until S3 when they consummated their relationship (that's a funny, stuffy term, isn't it?). After all the disastrous events that followed...even into S6 something made them still want to be together.

ME is wrapped up as tight as a drum. He is persistently angry, hostile and I believe anxious......all a part of his behavioral disorder. It's a bit of a wonder that he was ever able to sleep. That is why sexual undertones and their implication in the story attract some of us so much, I believe. Making love, and doing it well is probably one venue that ME can use to express love, tenderness and devotion. In the same sense, it is probably one of the situations where he can be relaxed.....physically obviously....and emotionally. It is lovely and stimulating to imagine the lovely words and affection that may be able to transpire in that lovely post coital state. It may be that Louisa has seen and heard from Martin things that a viewer would never imagine. That's why she loves him.

On the other hand, he can be a huge pain in the arse and she finally broke in S6. Her behavior is no great shakes either....I'm with a lot of you on that. But it's this fascinating, subliminal dichotomy the fuels fans' imaginations, delivered through excellent script writing and brilliant acting.

I think he would allow his belly to be rubbed...or kissed under certain circumstances, like you say.

Yup, yup and yup.

I especially like the thought that one of the things that is magnetically attractive about the series is the suspicion that there is a whole different side of DM that only Louisa gets to see, and in the intimate side of their relationship, to which only they are privy, but which we are forever hoping to catch a glimpse of!

Actually, we did get a little tiny, tantalizing glimpse in the first few minutes of the honeymoon, but that was about it.

It HAS to be there -- otherwise, frankly, I can't see why she's stayed with him as long as she has, heroic virtues or not.

Well, I'm not sure he is persistently angry and hostile. When he is at home, he is happy to cook, and work on his clocks, and read, and he can be quite content and satisfied. With his aunts he is also well behaved in general, he listens to them, takes their counsel, and appreciates their company. We also saw in S3 that he is considerate, kind, and thoughtful with LG, during their brief mating episodes. He can apologize to Peter Cronk; he is helpful to the teen with no breast development; he allows Pauline to do her thing a lot, even make fun of him.

What seems to set him off the most are his patients, and the officious idiots he has to at times deal with. In general, with patients he is short, curt, rude, and impatient. On the one hand, in reality, many of his patients are really difficult people and some deserve that attitude; they come to chat without medical conditions; they want to be fed tea and cookies; they are rude; or, very stupid; they are just wasting his time. All the other ones who aren't like that, which is a lot of them, can also, anyway, be treated poorly, or at times, like Al, and that "fish odor" patient, and Eddie Rix, and Mrs. Tishell's husband, and the kids of the man who dressed in his wife's clothes, and Stewart, are treated fairly decently.

So, I do not feel it is fair to describe DM's character as "persistently angry and hostile" all the time--that is reducing a very complicated man, with a very complex personality to a bit of a cartoonish presentation. All in all, DM is a very good man, with a very good heart, with good morals and ethics, super smart, amazingly competent, with a seriously traumatic childhood, who can be in puppy dog love or haughty and arrogant or lost in confusion or terrified of intimacy or judgmental or thoughtful or cringeworthy awkward or bluntly outrageous, etc, etc, and so many other emotions given individual situations.

With Martin's apparent behavioral disorders of depression, hemophobia, social anxiety and panic attacks, in season 7 will the writers work in anorexia to reflect his considerable weight loss

If he's like most people who've lost a lot of weight, quite rapidly, I imagine at least some of it will be put back on, and he'll look a lot less gaunt. And it does take a while for body contours to reshape after a big weight loss, also. So I don't think that anorexia will have to be explicitly dealt with.

I think we're meant to believe that his brief conversation with Aunt Ruth has started him down a path of individual change, and that what S7 will show is how he and Louisa attempt to put their marriage back together, rather than how he puts himself back together. Louisa has to have some insights into her own issues, perhaps, and certainly has to be convinced that she can trust the changes that Martin is trying to make.

I have often wondered if MC had the writers for S6 purposely insert the weight loss issue in the episodes which gave him the incentive to lose weight, but I think it got out of hand. In the past, his weight has fluctuated so now I think he wants to look his best as he is in the 50's decade and hold down on the extra baggage. S6 was the first time in this series he had his jacket and shirt off to do the EKG self exam. If he was still as heavy as in S5, that scene would never have occurred.

My understanding is that he had lost some weight on purpose and then was off the set for a period of weeks starting in May, laid low by a wicked virus. He lost some additional amount of weight then, and probably wasn't tip-top when he got back. I would bet the writers had to insert something to account for his weight loss, which was probably fine, as he was supposed to be on a downhill slide anyway at that point.

Yes, once you reach your 50's, if not before, I think there is increased motivation to get into better shape, to weather the coming decades. I hope he keeps it off, for his sake (if not for more shirtless scenes).

I know some people dislike our discussing "gossipy" things so I'll make this quick. I read somewhere ....I wish I could remember where....that after S5 his agent spoke to him about his weight. He suggested that if he didn't do something about it soon that it would never go away. MC agreed and obviously took action. Sounds plausible.....seems like something an agent would say to the client they represent...from a business, salability and health perspective. I think he's gone too far myself....looking gaunt and unhealthy...just my take. That's it..no more personal gossip.

She bought the lavender oil to try to help him sleep. And even when he left the bed so that his tossing and turning wouldn't keep her awake, she couldn't sleep because she was worried about him not sleeping.

And I think that first scene in S3E6 when he is sitting on the end of the bed fixing his tie is another glimpse. There was just something so intimate about that scene. Every time I watch it, I get a little chill when he first comes into view.

Another thing I noticed that morning is that he initiates both of the kisses. Most of the time it is Louisa who initiates, but the two that morning and then the one on the balcony a day or so later were all him. There was a very short time there where he had quite a bit of self-confidence when it came to the engagement. It was very sweet to watch.

I've watched that episode probably close to 50 times, I love it so much. What just occurred to me after your post, Shop Girl, is how fortunate it was that Louisa woke up. The first time I saw it I suspected that he might be sneaking away.....but I guess he wouldn't take his time to put on his tie and knot it on the end of the bed if he were trying to be sneaky. A really wonderful scene...and yes, he initiated the kisses. I've always wondered why Louisa didn't answer the bedroom kiss or the kiss at the door. It seems that the glow of the night before would still be hanging on.

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There were two scenes in S6E6 wherein Margaret touches MC as he picked up the white plate off the table and then dropped it, and another towards the end of the episode where Margaret says "We are all the family we've got. . ." and paws him, straightening his tie and running her hand over it: I knew of someone who did not get along with his mother as a child and when a grownup his mother did similar things. He felt it was a form of seduction and seeking of affection from his mother that was lacking as a child. Did anyone else read those scenes that way?

Yes, I think some people did -- expressed here on the Forum as I remember. There was even talk, swiftly rebutted, that perhaps this was a hint at actual misconduct in that direction when Martin was a child.

I don't believe that, and I don't think she was being sexually seductive, but to the extent there is a difference, I think she was just using her "feminine" wiles to try to bring him around to some sympathy for her. But I believe the general consensus here was also that it was creepy.

Perhaps seduction was my wrong choice of a word in the context of Margaret - DM, but if my memory serves me correctly this was the word the person I knew used in describing his mother's conduct. New Park - can the word seduction be used without it being sexual in meaning but meaning "feminine" wiles? In the DM instance it was Margaret seeking money for a place in Portugal.

Well, that raises an interesting question, which I think I indicated I was unsure about. I think you were (or your friend was) talking about an underlying erotic component.. I don't necessarily think that was the case with Margaret - DM.

I suppose more generally, seduction just means leading someone away from something that their more rational self feels to be right -- like the aroma of freshly baked chocolate chip cookies would almost always seduce me from eating habits I try to maintain.

So here Margaret is using touch to establish familiarity and a sense of intimacy; to remind DM of the old primal tie between mothers and sons, and that as such, she (in her own mind at least) has a claim on him. So, in a way, it's an attempt to seduce him -- lead him out of his stance of reserve and distance. Maybe a less loaded term is that it is manipulative. But it feels a bit seductive, to me, maybe because she uses touch and a presumption of intimacy to do the manipulating.

Clear as mud, I know.

Spot on, NewPark, in my humble opinion. But also "creepy" that she'd even do that as a mum. Yuck.