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3G speed drop after 4G launch


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Old 13-10-2013, 20:05
Thine Wonk
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It seems customers are claiming 3G has got slower since the networks turned on 4G.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-complain.html

Has anyone here noticed a 3G slowdown since 4G went live?
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Old 13-10-2013, 20:07
el_bardos
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More likely it's just a consequence of more and more people using data services, making 3G more congested - which would be happening with or without 4G
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Old 13-10-2013, 20:14
enapace
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There could in theory be some credence to this. Both 3G and 4G are using the same backhaul so if 4G is getting priority it would slow 3G down.
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Old 13-10-2013, 20:18
matty1000kk
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I'm assuming that 3G and 4G share the same backhaul so I guess this increased speed people can now access would put extra strain on it. Also all operators have launched 4G on limited mast sites at the moment so I can see more devices holding onto a week 4G signal from a distance mast rather then a stronger 3G signal for a closet mast which would put extra strain on it.
All networks are going to struggle with this for next few years until they have upgraded the majority of there sites to support 4G.
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Old 13-10-2013, 20:22
psionic
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I know I've been using a hell of a lot more data since I got 4G. I used to go out of my way to use WiFi where possible in the past for data intensive things, now I just don't bother with WiFi. I suppose it is conceivable that if a lot more data is being used it will effect everyone, regardless of whether they use 3G or 4G.
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Old 13-10-2013, 21:08
el_bardos
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There could in theory be some credence to this. Both 3G and 4G are using the same backhaul so if 4G is getting priority it would slow 3G down.
Given that BT circuits can do hundreds of Mbps, way more than 3G and 4G combined, I'd be a bit surprised if the operators weren't dimensioning the backhaul to be sufficient to carry everything that both technologies together could produce. It's hardly in their interests to get a bad press...
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Old 13-10-2013, 21:12
enapace
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Given that BT circuits can do hundreds of Mbps, way more than 3G and 4G combined, I'd be a bit surprised if the operators weren't dimensioning the backhaul to be sufficient to carry everything that both technologies together could produce. It's hardly in their interests to get a bad press...
EE/Three Backhaul is 1GBs if only 50 people were connected to one mast and getting around 20MBs each that would max it out. Think it pretty safe assume it could actually happen as that would be an average amount they would need in some areas sure it could happen.

You are right in saying they have anticipated this and most are ready to switch to 10GBs backhaul.
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Old 13-10-2013, 21:18
psionic
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We need to be clear with small 'b' or large 'B' here.
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Old 13-10-2013, 21:37
Thine Wonk
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We need to be clear with small 'b' or large 'B' here.
Yes, or we'll be out by a factor of 8! 'B' is bytes and 'b' is bits. Enapace means Gbps

When we talk about a throughput amount, or a steam speed it is nearly always referred to in bits / gigabits per second. When we refer to data at rest it is almost always done in bytes eg a 2 terabyte drive.
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Old 13-10-2013, 21:38
el_bardos
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EE/Three Backhaul is 1GBs if only 50 people were connected to one mast and getting around 20MBs each that would max it out. Think it pretty safe assume it could actually happen as that would be an average amount they would need in some areas sure it could happen.

You are right in saying they have anticipated this and most are ready to switch to 10GBs backhaul.
It's a shared resource, you can't get that many people getting that speed, and it's very easy to make sure there is more than enough backhaul bandwidth available
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Old 13-10-2013, 21:48
enapace
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It's a shared resource, you can't get that many people getting that speed, and it's very easy to make sure there is more than enough backhaul bandwidth available
I know that I meant that is why it is possibly slowing down others because of that. When Backhaul is upgraded to 10Gbs it should help a lot.
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Old 13-10-2013, 21:55
el_bardos
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I know that I meant that is why it is possibly slowing down others because of that. When Backhaul is upgraded to 10Gbs it should help a lot.
And what I mean is that backhaul is not a bottleneck, it can be easily dimensioned to be greater than you can get over the air interface (3G/4G)
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Old 13-10-2013, 21:58
Thine Wonk
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And what I mean is that backhaul is not a bottleneck, it can be easily dimensioned to be greater than you can get over the air interface (3G/4G)
Not so easily, it's the switches that need upgrading as MBNL only put in 1Gig switches to start with, then they need the backhaul installed, then they need the core to be able to cope too.

Fibre may not be justified on cost grounds at some rural sites, so microwaves may be the bottleneck.
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Old 14-10-2013, 20:46
RAN Man
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I'm assuming that 3G and 4G share the same backhaul so I guess this increased speed people can now access would put extra strain on it. Also all operators have launched 4G on limited mast sites at the moment so I can see more devices holding onto a week 4G signal from a distance mast rather then a stronger 3G signal for a closet mast which would put extra strain on it.
All networks are going to struggle with this for next few years until they have upgraded the majority of there sites to support 4G.
3G/LTE generally share the same physical pipe but they are logically separate and have different overall bandwidths. From the networks I have seen, the 3G pipe has not been altered in any way. IMHO it's likely that it's simply due to the normal variance in 3G speeds as traffic and capacity go up and down. And for anyone who's noticed it, they've associated it with what they know is happening, which is 4G rollout.There's certainly zero truth to some of the comments around networks intentionally throttling 3G.

The Daily Mails use of Bristols rootmetrics reports showing all 3G networks had got slower, when only one had launched LTE, and the measure before/after for EE were based predominantly on LTE speeds, was frankly laughable.
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Old 14-10-2013, 21:45
enapace
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3G/LTE generally share the same physical pipe but they are logically separate and have different overall bandwidths. From the networks I have seen, the 3G pipe has not been altered in any way. IMHO it's likely that it's simply due to the normal variance in 3G speeds as traffic and capacity go up and down. And for anyone who's noticed it, they've associated it with what they know is happening, which is 4G rollout.There's certainly zero truth to some of the comments around networks intentionally throttling 3G.

The Daily Mails use of Bristols rootmetrics reports showing all 3G networks had got slower, when only one had launched LTE, and the measure before/after for EE were based predominantly on LTE speeds, was frankly laughable.
Well unless you count Vodafone capping 2G/3G customers to 10mbs. With only people on 4G plans having full 3G speeds.
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Old 14-10-2013, 22:24
RAN Man
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Well unless you count Vodafone capping 2G/3G customers to 10mbs. With only people on 4G plans having full 3G speeds.
Good point. Although based on their average speeds, that's not throttling! .

Doesn't that only apply to new subs since August though. That's not quite the same as throttling the network?
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Old 14-10-2013, 22:32
thebtman
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It seems customers are claiming 3G has got slower since the networks turned on 4G.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-complain.html

Has anyone here noticed a 3G slowdown since 4G went live?
Yes, most definitely.

As someone who has been 100% pleased with Three I have touched a massive slow down.

They can say whatever they want. When so many people consistently had good speeds and now so many people consistently have bad speeds, its obvious the network is struggling.

Three.co.uk as usual telling people to reboot their phone or take their sim out etc etc.....

I just hope Three upgrade everything and speeds go back to normal.....
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Old 14-10-2013, 22:45
jabbamk1
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Good point. Although based on their average speeds, that's not throttling! .

Doesn't that only apply to new subs since August though. That's not quite the same as throttling the network?
I agree. Can hardly call it throttling.

Especially when 10Mbps is more than the average by far.
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Old 14-10-2013, 22:59
enapace
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In fairness I had a speed problem over the weekend at my house signal was fine but speeds were all over the place from struggling to get 2mbs to 20mbs sometimes. Gone back to normal now. So obviously they were doing some type, of optimising in my area, which is to be expected from time to time. I think Three are offering the best service they can for the best value. There was always going be teething problems with such a massive upgrade to 3G coverage [MBNL] and upcoming 4G turn on. Think we just got bare with it for a while but in end I think it going be far better coverage then we have ever had on phones in the past.

Jabba out of curiosity you mentioned 99.2% population coverage for 3G by end of 2014 is that basic 3G or DC-HSDPA? Would be extremely nice if it was the latter of the two.
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Old 14-10-2013, 23:22
jabbamk1
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In fairness I had a speed problem over the weekend at my house signal was fine but speeds were all over the place from struggling to get 2mbs to 20mbs sometimes. Gone back to normal now. So obviously they were doing some type, of optimising in my area, which is to be expected from time to time. I think Three are offering the best service they can for the best value. There was always going be teething problems with such a massive upgrade to 3G coverage [MBNL] and upcoming 4G turn on. Think we just got bare with it for a while but in end I think it going be far better coverage then we have ever had on phones in the past.

Jabba out of curiosity you mentioned 99.2% population coverage for 3G by end of 2014 is that basic 3G or DC-HSDPA? Would be extremely nice if it was the latter of the two.
It's either HSPA+ 21 or DC-HSPA+ 42. It'll only be those two really.

Three currently have 98% HSPA+ coverage and 85% DC-HSPA+ coverage.
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Old 14-10-2013, 23:24
Mark in Essex
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I have found the H+ data speed to have dropped right down in Harlow.

I use to get at least 3G down but for the last 2+ months I've never got above 130kbps (.13Meg) and it does not matter any time of the day (have tried speed tests over 20 times over the last 2 months) !

Ive logged it with Vodafone and somebody else says they are having the same problem.
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Old 14-10-2013, 23:43
enapace
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It's either HSPA+ 21 or DC-HSPA+ 42. It'll only be those two really.

Three currently have 98% HSPA+ coverage and 85% DC-HSPA+ coverage.
That's certainly going be an impressive 3G network then. Average download speeds should be 5-20Mbs then across entire network. Hopefully won't be to much longer till the UMTS masts are decommissioned or upgraded annoying to get connected to one of those like being on 2G.
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