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Old 15-10-2013, 01:25
jsmith99
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I thought it was worth putting this in a separate thread, hoping it might attract comments from anyone actually in the business.

This is what the government says about Personal Licences :

https://www.gov.uk/government/organi...sonal-licences

Note the :
Your local council will want to know of any relevant criminal convictions, and these may impact on whether or not you’re found to be suitable as a licensee.
so a conviction isn't an absolute bar.

and this is what the body responsible for training courses says :

http://biiab.bii.org/qualifications/...rsonal-licence.

Presumably neither steve, michelle, tina nor sean have done the course, got the qualification and passed a CRB check in the two weeks since steve decided to buy the pub.
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Old 15-10-2013, 01:27
FusionFury
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This is too logical for soap land..
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Old 15-10-2013, 01:40
Frogjuice
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At the point that the DPS of a site leaves you can declare this and be granted an intermin premises licence, generally for no longer than a month, whilst another candidate is found. This allows the business to carry on trading in the meanwhile.
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Old 15-10-2013, 02:01
Mel94
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Another thing... for Michelle to be a part owner somehow, wouldn't she need to sign some paper work?
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Old 15-10-2013, 06:59
norbitonite
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You don't need to be the owner to hold the licence.

I thought that when Steve owned the Rovers before, Liz had to hold the license as Steve was ineligible because of his'record'. Or am I misremembering?
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Old 15-10-2013, 07:17
Frogjuice
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You don't need to be the owner to hold the licence.

I did think that when Steve owned the Rovers before, Liz had to hold the license as Steve was ineligible because of his'record'. Or am I misremembering?
You may not need the owner themselves to be the licence holder on the premises licence but at any point the business is open for trading there should be a personal licence holder on shift (it is usually a management requirement)
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Old 15-10-2013, 08:52
TrishaS
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Michelle's name is over the door, but wouldn't she have had to appear personally to get the licence Surely you can't just put someone's name down
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Old 15-10-2013, 09:04
mrsdaisychain
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Michelle would have to sign forms to be the name on the door.
I may be mistaken but I'm sure Steve's name couldn't be on the door before as he had been in prison! Liz's name was.
If Liz was part owner, why isn't her name up there?
Stupid sl
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Old 15-10-2013, 09:04
kitkat1971
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You don't need to be the owner to hold the licence.

I thought that when Steve owned the Rovers before, Liz had to hold the license as Steve was ineligible because of his'record'. Or am I misremembering?
No that is correct - it was mentioned when they first bought it and again when Stave was trying to oust Liz so he could sell.

I think some criminal convictions will be set aside but anything relating to drugs or fraud would be a no-no. Why was Steve in Prison? I've forgotten the details but have a feeling it was fraud related. Alfie's definitely was in EE so he should be barred and Kat was in for Soliciting which again I'd think would stop being granted a license - chances of it being a front for a brothel are rather increased.

As far as I'm aware the person applying for the license has to attend Court in person so Michelle couldn't have been cleared this quickly without her knowledge. Unless she was granted that ststus when they were running the Poub before.
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Old 15-10-2013, 09:12
kitkat1971
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You may not need the owner themselves to be the licence holder on the premises licence but at any point the business is open for trading there should be a personal licence holder on shift (it is usually a management requirement)
Yes, again that came up when they were selling. Liz told them that as the licensee she had to be living there or they would have to close.

So, the owner doesn't have to be the licensee but the manager does qnd yes, there should always be one available. That is why nearly all Landlords ore married couples both of whom are usually named. Technically they should be on shift but one definitely needs to be on site, even if upstairs in case of a spot check by the Police or Trading standards.

I know we're discussing Corrie here but the Vic is currently trading illegally with both Alfie and Roxy away. Yes Phil is the owner but he is not the Licensee and he isn't living there.

Of course a pub or bar without living premises doesn't need someone living there but generally they are city locations and part of a chain so they will have several managers (who will also be licensees) on a rota.

I only know a bit about it because the advertising agency I worked for had an on premises bar and my boss (the Finance Director) had to be declared the Licensee.
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Old 15-10-2013, 11:41
jsmith99
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At the point that the DPS of a site leaves you can declare this and be granted an intermin premises licence, generally for no longer than a month, whilst another candidate is found. This allows the business to carry on trading in the meanwhile.
This is the official Home Office guidance on DPS (what used to be called the landlord):

http://www.medway.gov.uk/pdf/role-de...ises-super.pdf

Note that the DPS doesn't have to be on the premises at all times, in fact they can be the nominated DPS at up two four premises.

But they're must always be a holder of a Personal Licence on the premises.

However, I can find no mention of what happens to the pub when the DPS leaves. It reads as though, if the DPS is also the Premises Licence holder, then that must be surrendered at the same time.

........

I think some criminal convictions will be set aside but anything relating to drugs or fraud would be a no-no. .............
The Licensing Act of 2003 gives full details of treatment of past offences. I keep meaning to take a copy of the para.
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Old 15-10-2013, 12:58
Glendarroch
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A neighbour of mine is on our local Community Council. She's been taking issue with what she suspects is simply a means of the council generating extra cash by really clamping down on licenses for small businesses.

She told me that one of the local pubs had hired a new member of staff and was training her. The inspector from the council told them to send her home because she didn't have a license. The manager put in a complaint to the council because apparently there was no need for her to have a license while she was officially on a trial period- if she proved up to the job then they'd put her through the course. Thanks to the nice man from the licensing dept not knowing the law, the girl could have lost her trial period and the chance at a more permanent job and useful qualification.
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Old 15-10-2013, 13:04
sarahj1986
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I knew that a person with a criminal conviction couldn't hold a license but I didn't know that the licensee had to be present at all times.

You learn something new everyday
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Old 15-10-2013, 13:39
jazzyjazzy
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As managers were also not allowed to sleep away from the premises when we were not on official holiday.
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Old 15-10-2013, 15:07
jsmith99
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I knew that a person with a criminal conviction couldn't hold a license but I didn't know that the licensee had to be present at all times.

You learn something new everyday
If by "licensee" you mean the DPS, then they don't. Someone holding a Personal Licence has to be present when alcohol is served. There can be several of these in a pub.

Designated Premises Supervisor (DPS) is an individual who holds a valid personal licence and is named on a
premises licence which authorises the sale by retail of alcohol.
As managers were also not allowed to sleep away from the premises when we were not on official holiday.
This seems to conflict with the Home Office publication I linked to earlier :

A premises licence may only specify one DPS, but an individual may be specified on more than one premises
licence
as DPS as long as they are able to ensure that the four licensing objectives are promoted and the
management of the premises is in compliance with the Licensing Act 2003.
(Sorry, I was wrong in an earlier post about a limit of four premises).
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Old 15-10-2013, 15:51
sarahj1986
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If by "licensee" you mean the DPS, then they don't. Someone holding a Personal Licence has to be present when alcohol is served. There can be several of these in a pub.





This seems to conflict with the Home Office publication I linked to earlier :



(Sorry, I was wrong in an earlier post about a limit of four premises).
thank you for clarification
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Old 15-10-2013, 16:04
grauniad
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It can be very easy. I went out last night and bought 5, all vacated by midday today. Just one hitch, the owner of one of the pubs has left a toothbrush behind, but my brief's on to it.
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Old 15-10-2013, 17:40
Frogjuice
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I am DPS for the centre where I work hence why I know a fair amount about the requirements.

When the manager who was DPS prior to myself left the company we operated under an interim order whilst the change was made to the licence to have my name put on the premises licence. This took roughly 5 weeks to complete but the council have the paperwork throughout so the business can trade as usual.

If a licensing enforcement officer enters the premises they can ask to see the personal license of whoever is running that particular shift, hence why all four of us on our management team have our own personal licence, with only mine linked to the premises licence.

All alcohol sold on the premises in done so under my authorisation as the DPS of the centre, this falls as a fairly blanket stipulation which does not require my presence on site for all licensable hours.
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Old 15-10-2013, 23:26
jsmith99
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Thanks for making that clear.

As regards the criminal offence, the relevant paragraphs of the Licensing Act 2003 are:

120Determination of application for grant

(1)This section applies where an application for the grant of a personal licence is made to a licensing authority in accordance with section 117.
(2)The authority must grant the licence if it appears to it that—
(a)the applicant is aged 18 or over,
(b)he possesses a licensing qualification or is a person of a prescribed description,
(c)no personal licence held by him has been forfeited in the period of five years ending with the day the application was made, and
(d)he has not been convicted of any relevant offence or any foreign offence.
There is a long list of relevant offences at :

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/17/schedule/4

mainly concerned with financial probity, and drink and drug offences.

However :

114Spent convictions

For the purposes of this Part a conviction for a relevant offence or a foreign offence must be disregarded if it is spent for the purposes of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (c. 53).

So if steve's conviction (for conspiracy to pervert the course of justice, if I remember) is spent then he can do the course and apply for a Personal Licence.
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