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COM7 mux, Al Jazeera HD - LCN 108


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Old 16-10-2013, 21:58
jj20x
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Neither is AJE HD bespoke.
Nobody said it would be...

There must be some way for the AJE HD signal to reach the UK and NZ Freeview HD services from Doha, perhaps our current SD service is already downscaled from an unknown HD source (hidden on some encrypted sat transponder?) - AJE was played out in widescreen long before it became officially available in widescreen (the service was cropped 14:9 in the UK).
I really don't think that, with the resources available to it, there would be any problem funding a satellite link. Whether that would be a direct feed or a relay of a DTH service remains to be seen.
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Old 16-10-2013, 21:58
a516
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Probably with some negotiation with France, there just seems to be a reluctance to do this in general. More serious negotiations will be required if 700MHz is cleared, they probably don't want to rock the boat just to accommodate temporary multiplexes.
If 700 MHz clearance goes ahead, Dover will be lucky to get the basic Freeview service let alone anything else, looking at last year's Arqiva analysis. With Crystal Palace, Heathfield, Sudbury and their relays, plus French and Belgian transmitters to consider there's not many spare frequencies available at all. If I remember correctly, one Arqiva document stated that in the event of 700 MHz clearance, Dover would be left with just one of its assigned frequencies.
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Old 16-10-2013, 22:01
a516
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Nobody said it would be...



I really don't think that, with the resources available to it, there would be any problem funding a satellite link. Whether that would be a direct feed or a relay of a DTH service remains to be seen.
Well from the 1st November, Al Jazeera is somehow going to be broadcasting in HD on Freeview HD NZ Channel 16, so there's bound to be an unknown satellite link around. Here in the UK, I wonder if the loop shown on COM7 will change to a feed of AJE HD around that date, too?
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Old 16-10-2013, 22:02
jj20x
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If 700 MHz clearance goes ahead, Dover will be lucky to get the basic Freeview service let alone anything else, looking at last year's Arqiva analysis. With Crystal Palace, Heathfield, Sudbury and their relays, plus French and Belgian transmitters to consider there's not many spare frequencies available at all. If I remember correctly, one Arqiva document stated that in the event of 700 MHz clearance, Dover would be left with just one of its assigned frequencies.
Indeed and would need to swap frequencies with other locations in the UK and possibly with European neighbours to provide a full service. Hence the comment about not rocking the boat at this stage.
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Old 16-10-2013, 22:02
Roland Mouse
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as BBC Three/CBBC HD looks set to replace BBC RB HD on satellite as well as on Freeview, there is unlikely to be anything yet to see on satellite for a while.
What BBC RB HD events are still in the pipeline?

Dr Who 3D / 50th anniversary?

???
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Old 16-10-2013, 22:05
a516
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What BBC RB HD events are still in the pipeline?

Dr Who 3D / 50th anniversary?

???
Indeed. The BBC has confirmed that Dr Who 3D will be on the Red Button. BBC RB HD has been the home of BBC 3D since BBC HD channel closed and the end of the current 3D experiment also closes the need to have a bespoke outlet for it.
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Old 16-10-2013, 22:09
Roland Mouse
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If 700 MHz clearance goes ahead, Dover will be lucky to get the basic Freeview service let alone anything else, looking at last year's Arqiva analysis. With Crystal Palace, Heathfield, Sudbury and their relays, plus French and Belgian transmitters to consider there's not many spare frequencies available at all. If I remember correctly, one Arqiva document stated that in the event of 700 MHz clearance, Dover would be left with just one of its assigned frequencies.
That's good news as that being totally unacceptable, they might get their fingers out of their a**** and actually have to address the problem.

We currently have a full service (if you exclude COM 7), are we to have that taken away and have to go to Freeview lite or worse because they want to expand 4G. The outrage would/will be deafening.
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Old 16-10-2013, 22:13
a516
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That's good news as that being totally unacceptable, they might get their fingers out of their a**** and actually have to address the problem.

We currently have a full service (if you exclude COM 7), are we to have that taken away and have to go to Freeview lite or worse because they want to expand 4G. The outrage would/will be deafening.
Not that simple as it involves international diplomacy and co-operation. Ofcom will need to negotiate with other EU countries.
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Old 16-10-2013, 22:43
lotrjw
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Not that simple as it involves international diplomacy and co-operation. Ofcom will need to negotiate with other EU countries.
Ofcom better brush up on their diplomatic skills then as it will definitely be needed in the event of 700MHz clearance!
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Old 16-10-2013, 22:47
jj20x
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Ofcom better brush up on their diplomatic skills then as it will definitely be needed in the event of 700MHz clearance!
Bear in mind that France, Belgium etc will be in a similar position and may also want to swap frequencies. There will be some give and take. Belgium is already short of frequencies, so 700MHz clearance won't go down too well there.
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Old 16-10-2013, 22:51
M60
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Indeed. The BBC has confirmed that Dr Who 3D will be on the Red Button. BBC RB HD has been the home of BBC 3D since BBC HD channel closed and the end of the current 3D experiment also closes the need to have a bespoke outlet for it.
Isn't the Dr Who 3D special on the evening of the 23rd? I've asked this before and someone did tell me but can't remember!

I guess once this has finished, they could feasibly launch BBC Three HD & CBBC HD within a week or so? They'll want to get them up and running before Christmas, I wonder too if the beeb may launch BBC Four/Cbeebies and BBC News on to COM7 if the plan is now to achieve a 50% rollout before Christmas at more than the originally intended number of sites? Commercially it makes sense from a selling point so guess if the rollout has been speeded up then the other partners in this deal (C4 and the beeb) may get their channels on-board sooner. Two BBC services, two C4 services and AJE HD would make five in total and fill the Mux.

What's the maximum time a placeholder can be utilised before a service must launch on an LCN?
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Old 16-10-2013, 23:10
jj20x
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What's the maximum time a placeholder can be utilised before a service must launch on an LCN?
That probably won't be enforced too strictly on the interim multiplexes in the test phase.
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Old 16-10-2013, 23:16
Roland Mouse
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Dr Who is the 23rd of November (I think)

So maybe after that, on satellite the RB service might just get renamed BBC Three HD. In that case it is already up and running.

All speculation of course.
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Old 16-10-2013, 23:22
lbear
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Isn't the Dr Who 3D special on the evening of the 23rd? I've asked this before and someone did tell me but can't remember!

I guess once this has finished, they could feasibly launch BBC Three HD & CBBC HD within a week or so? They'll want to get them up and running before Christmas, I wonder too if the beeb may launch BBC Four/Cbeebies and BBC News on to COM7 if the plan is now to achieve a 50% rollout before Christmas at more than the originally intended number of sites? Commercially it makes sense from a selling point so guess if the rollout has been speeded up then the other partners in this deal (C4 and the beeb) may get their channels on-board sooner. Two BBC services, two C4 services and AJE HD would make five in total and fill the Mux.

What's the maximum time a placeholder can be utilised before a service must launch on an LCN?
Doesn't the 50% rollout indicate the percentage of the population which will be able to receive COM7 if they had a T2 set, not 50% of sites or 50% of the land area?

IIRC, the only transmitter sites that are now due to start operating the extra mux(es) this year are Crystal Palace and Sutton Coldfield - which accounts for the 50% of population figure.
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Old 16-10-2013, 23:32
jj20x
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IIRC, the only transmitter sites that are now due to start operating the extra mux(es) this year are Crystal Palace and Sutton Coldfield - which accounts for the 50% of population figure.
Crystal Palace and Sutton Coldfield don't even reach 50% of the population from the full powered sites. It would be less than 30% which would have to be adjusted down to account for the lower power.
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Old 16-10-2013, 23:35
lbear
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Al Jazeera HD is now transmitting a promotional loop on LCN 108 from Crystal Palace.
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Old 16-10-2013, 23:35
lotrjw
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Isn't the Dr Who 3D special on the evening of the 23rd? I've asked this before and someone did tell me but can't remember!

I guess once this has finished, they could feasibly launch BBC Three HD & CBBC HD within a week or so? They'll want to get them up and running before Christmas, I wonder too if the beeb may launch BBC Four/Cbeebies and BBC News on to COM7 if the plan is now to achieve a 50% rollout before Christmas at more than the originally intended number of sites? Commercially it makes sense from a selling point so guess if the rollout has been speeded up then the other partners in this deal (C4 and the beeb) may get their channels on-board sooner. Two BBC services, two C4 services and AJE HD would make five in total and fill the Mux.

What's the maximum time a placeholder can be utilised before a service must launch on an LCN?
If the BBC timed things right they could do a BBC RB HD to BBC 3 HD switchover with Dr Who as their crossover program.

This would mean that on Sky the BBC could map BBC RB HD to an LNC for BBC 3 HD during the day on 23rd of Nov, then it would just become BBC 3 HD as soon as Dr Who is finished. CBBC HD would go live the morning of the 24th then.
Added to this the BBC could (if all was ready) also launch BBC 4 HD and BBC News HD on the 23rd too, with CBeeBies HD going live on the 24th too.
Other than things not being ready technically, I cant see why this wouldnt be possible?

Regarding COM 7 being filled, as that has happened so quick, the othe COM 8 MUX could go live quite soon in the new year, if we have other channels being launched to fill it.
I kindof hope that there is more than 10 channels that are part time to pee off Digital UK into rethinking the stupid HD genre on freeview!!
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Old 17-10-2013, 00:13
M60
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Cheers for that info everyone, I thought it was on the 23rd.

Interesting suggestion there lotrjw, maybe this is how the beeb would get round the Sky RB HD issue as it's never been available on that platform.

When I mentioned coverage as a percentage, I was referring to population as is generally the case. The original plan was to have just CP and SC but both of them wouldn't be near that figure so I guess Winter Hill, Black Hill and Wenvoe may also be part of the initial plan?
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Old 17-10-2013, 08:35
mossy2103
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The Arqiva propsal at http://www.arqiva.com/documentation/...start%20v9.pdf shows Sutton Coldfield and Crystal Palace as the first two sites to go live - anyone tried seeing if they can get anything from Sutton Coldfield yet?
I tried a manual scan on channels 33 and 35 on Tuesday afternoon but nothing was found.
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Old 17-10-2013, 10:43
bayards
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As a follower of this thread and Doctor who too, confirm that 23.11.63 is where it all started (I wad 8 years old)....good the BBC have the 50th on same day and a Saturday night. Where's that sofa....
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Old 17-10-2013, 11:09
OwenSmith
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We know already what else is going to go on COM7.
You might but I don't. Unless you're simply assuming that BBC4/CBeebies HD and BBC News HD are going on COM7.
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Old 17-10-2013, 12:16
lbear
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10 December is apparently the launch date for the new BBC HD channels on Virginmedia. That would be logical as it will give time for the most new transmitters to be up and running but to be available for the Christmas period.
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Old 17-10-2013, 12:50
Toxteth O'Grady
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Can't understand the DTT fixation with placeholders that are there for months without a real programme coming on. Coming soon...

Also where is the Al J HD signal coming from? I don't know any satellite that yet transmits it.
It's been originated in HD since it launched, but as you say it's never (as far as I know) ever been broadcast in HD.

Their internal network (for contribution, feeds and inter-studio links) is carried by fibre and there is an HD version of the channel on that which I assume is what they'll use to get it to the UK
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Old 17-10-2013, 13:17
Toxteth O'Grady
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There was talk of an Al Jazeera UK at one point. Not heard anything more recently.
As far as I know it's still happening, and with the move onto HD on Freeview I'd imagine is connected.

AJE's London centre is moving to The Shard at some point, AJ UK won't launch until after then. The launch of AJ US has also got in the way - they had to send staff from the English channel to help launch the US channel.


We know Arqiva and Al Jazeera have the means to produce a unique version of the channel - last year in the form of "Al Jazeera 6-8", which was different to the main AJE service, so it doesn't surprise me that there's a way of getting an HD version on the Freeview.
The HD version of AJE is distributed internally at AJ so it's just a case of getting it across London to Arqiva
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Old 17-10-2013, 16:28
Roland Mouse
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I understand that there are problems but isn't this whole idea of COM7 and COM8 that many many people just won't be able to get ever, doing Freeview a dis-service and putting it back years as the poor cousin of everything else?

Especially if important channels like BBC4 and BBC News go on it.

Which seems more attractive: Unrestricted Freesat or Freeview with some major channels missing?

So Freeview instead of improving is actually going backwards by years.
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