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How to choose the perfect breed.
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GibsonGirl
04-11-2013
Originally Posted by CollieWobbles:
“First things first, whilst looks play a part, and obviously you want something that appeals to you, temperament is the most important factor in choosing a dog, especially if it is to live with children. The next most important factor is health. Every breed was bred for a specific purpose, some of those purposes will have undesirable traits in a pet dog, making certain breeds unsuitable to certain people.

Say, you like the look of the husky for instance, and decide that is what you want. But huskies are designed to be able to pull heavy loads across snow and ice for up to 60 miles a day, as part of a pack with other dogs. So, you would have a dog that fits in with you appearance wise, but personality wise not so much. The average pet home cannot provide the physical exercise they need, so they develop behavioural issues, and as working pack dog, they howl like wolves. Not easy to live with and not easy to live next to either!

Don't go after a dog for looks alone, the most stunningly beautiful pedigree could have a whole plague of health issues. The perfect looking puppy could turn into heartache when it ends up with completely the wrong disposition for the home it's in. What's on the inside is more important than what you see on the outside, you don't get huge vet bills because the fur isn't long enough, and you don't get serious behavioural problems because it's the wrong colour.

To help you out:

Generally speaking, a medium or larger dog is better suited to children, they can withstand the rough treatment more, are usually more docile and tolerable, and aren't highly strung or snappy like the smaller breeds can be. Toy breeds can be far too delicate, and terriers have a typical terrier temperament. The only toy breed I would recommend is the cavalier King Charles spaniel, their superb little dogs for family life, however they are plagued by health problems, so you would have to do some serious, careful research for a breeder.

Dogs with longer hair require more grooming, either professionally ( which can cost a bit) or yourself ( which will take your time doing so), so ask yourself how much time/ money would you be willing to put into grooming? You'll have a better idea then of whether to go for long or short coat.

There was a time when a mongrel was considered the healthier option. Not any more. Thanks to all these 'designer dogs' you can now get problems in mongrels like you can in pedigrees, as back yard breeders have been churning them out any old how to make a fast buck after seeing how popular they are. You now need to do as much research into the background of a cross or mongrel as a purebred, or find a breeder who health checks their crossbreeds. A crossbreed is no healthier than a purebreed, in fact if care isn't taken in the breeding, it can end up with the worst traits off each side, both in health and temperament! It wouldn't be any cheaper either, a lot of crosses now cost more than a pedigree, a Labrador could cost around £400-500, a poodle £300-400, but a Labradoodle could be £800+! There is also the fact that with a pedigree dog, you have a very good idea of how it will turn out, with a cross or mongrel you won't. If next door bought a poodle x cocker, and you liked the look of it, there is no guarantee at all that you would get a dog that looked the same if you bought one. Even two crossbreed puppies from the same litter could grow up nothing alike.

As a general rule, bitches are smaller and lighter than dogs. So a good compromise if you want a bigger dog and your wife wants a smaller one is to get a bitch, and for the opposite, a dog. Likewise, generally, a dog will have a fuller, heavier coat, so again for someone who wants a big dog with a shorter coat , whist the other wants the opposite, a bitch is a good compromise and again a dog for the opposite. Other general rules, though of course you can get exceptions, is that a bitch is usually more loving, wants to be with you and stays with you, compared to a dog, who is more inclined to wander. Bitches tend to learn faster but forget faster, while dogs remember better but take longer to learn. Dogs mark their territory, hump, get into scrapes with other dogs, wander off, and behave like a sex crazed teen. Bitches have seasons twice a year which they have to be kept away from all other dogs for at least a fortnight, they can have mood swings due to the hormones, phantom pregnancies and pyometra (a dangerous infection of the womb). All these can be cured in either sex however by neutering, so its not the be all and end all, but certainly something else to take into consideration.

There is a lot more to choosing a dog than what you like the look of, the right breed will be a wonderful addition to the family, the wrong one however, could wreck it completely. I would borrow or buy a dog breed book and look at what the breeds were intended for. A good idea also is to visit a dog show where you can see virtually all the different breeds, Discover Dogs in Earls Court, or Crufts is a fantastic way to see and meet all the breeds. I hope this has been of some help to you, and good luck picking your perfect pup - take your time and choose right, it's a long relationship”

I was agreeing with you up to the point that you started to compare bitches and dogs. Bitches can be every bit as ready to get into fights with other dogs. The dog that attacked my male Lurcher was a female Staffie that lives down the street. That dog has a long history of attacking other dogs (gender doesn't enter the equation with her). Scent marking isn't uncommon in more dominant bitches either. And not every behavioural/health problem can be avoided/cured by spaying and neutering. In some cases, this can lead to heightened aggression and future health problems.
JJ75
04-11-2013
Originally Posted by GibsonGirl:
“I completely agree about all those ridiculous designer breeds. My Mum and I know somebody who got a Maltipoo (Maltese x Poodle) and these are the extremes she went to get him. Her daughter had fallen in love with them and there aren't too many breeders about. They absolutely had to have a Maltipoo! She ended up travelling from central Scotland to Wales to get a puppy. This was a round trip of more than 700 miles and the puppy cost £500+! A few months ago we learned that the dog developed aggressive tendencies after he was neutered. He was handed into the Dogs Trust for rehoming!

I simply cannot believe the mentality of this woman. There are thousands of dogs in Scottish shelters and she went all the way to Wales to get a designer mutt! A dog they only had about a year-and-a-half before being dumped in a rescue centre. As far as I am aware the dog was rehomed, so that's at least something.

My best advice is to go to a shelter with an open mind and remember that not every dog conforms to breed standards.”

Ahh yes Wales, the home of puppy farms.
GibsonGirl
04-11-2013
Originally Posted by molliepops:
“I don't understand why the cost and travelling are a problem we went from here in Surrey to Birmingham to get a rescue who also turned out to be a DA dog very nervous aggressive and had huge medical costs his entire life. Only difference is we loved him despite it all and cared for him for the rest of his life. It's the family that's the problem not the travelling or cost imo.”

The issue is that she travelled that far and spent that amount on a puppy when there are so many dogs in rescue shelters badly needing homes. I'm not completely against breeders (I commend the responsible ones that breed for temperament and health instead of quantity), but they have contributed to the massive problem of having countless dogs in shelters. I agree that the main problem with that particular dog was the family.
molliepops
04-11-2013
Originally Posted by GibsonGirl:
“The issue is that she travelled that far and spent that amount on a puppy when there are so many dogs in rescue shelters badly needing homes. I'm not completely against breeders (I commend the responsible ones that breed for temperament and health instead of quantity), but they have contributed to the massive problem of having countless dogs in shelters. I agree that the main problem with that particular dog was the family.”

But the point is she could have had the same experience with a rescue or had to travel to get one and still had the same experience. I know rescues have to be careful who they rehome to but the rules and hoops people have to go through will always mean some people prefer to not get a rescue, or even can't get a rescue.

After our experience we have opted for puppy rather than rescue again too.
GibsonGirl
04-11-2013
Originally Posted by molliepops:
“But the point is she could have had the same experience with a rescue or had to travel to get one and still had the same experience. I know rescues have to be careful who they rehome to but the rules and hoops people have to go through will always mean some people prefer to not get a rescue, or even can't get a rescue.

After our experience we have opted for puppy rather than rescue again too.”

Then again, there are a lot of rescues that aren't as strict. I have lost a lot of respect for the Dogs Trust because of their policies and 'professional advice', but take the Retired Greyhound Trust for example. It is far more laid back. That is where my Mum and I got our Greyhound from and they will deliver your new dog to you and don't have a problem with testing the reactions of potential new dogs and existing dogs in the existing dogs cars. This is a big test because if an existing dog will accept a new dog in their car, then it will indicate that the existing dog will also accept the new dog in the house. The Dogs Trust are very reluctant to do that and will not deliver new dogs to you. It should also be noted that we travelled from Livingston (West Lothian) to Reston (Scottish Borders) to get her. That was about a 125 mile round trip. I don't think we would have travelled much further though.

If an even longer trip means pulling a rescue dog out of death row, then I can understand that, but travelling such huge distances just to get to a specific breeder beggars belief in my opinion.
CollieWobbles
04-11-2013
Originally Posted by Blaise19:
“Very grateful for all the input.

CBF, I looked at the Lagotto but they look a bit like a 'before the groomer called' picture of a poodle So, I think I would really rather have another poodle!

I do love the temperament of the Tibetan, CW, but they are just a bit small.

OB, do you know about schnauzers please? I'm still drawn to the standard as I prefer a slightly larger dog. My daughter's godmother had a miniature salt and pepper called Max - he was gorgeous, and such a softy.”

Just a thought Blaise, but if you like the general look of the Tibetan, have you considered a Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier? They look quite similar to the Tibetan (depending if/how you have them clipped), are very low shedding, but more the size your after. Similarly, the Bearded Collie also looks very alike the Tibetan, though this breed is a moderate shedder, but again, a medium sized dog

Originally Posted by GibsonGirl:
“I was agreeing with you up to the point that you started to compare bitches and dogs. Bitches can be every bit as ready to get into fights with other dogs. The dog that attacked my male Lurcher was a female Staffie that lives down the street. That dog has a long history of attacking other dogs (gender doesn't enter the equation with her). Scent marking isn't uncommon in more dominant bitches either. And not every behavioural/health problem can be avoided/cured by spaying and neutering. In some cases, this can lead to heightened aggression and future health problems.”

Yes I know, that's why I put in general and that there can be exceptions. Some bitches can be nasty and stand offish whilst some dogs can be soppy, just like some men are shy and quiet but some women are loud and start fights. Partly the breed, partly the breeding/upbringing, and mainly the individual personality. Your right in saying castration doesn't always cure aggression or sex related behaviours but seasons, phantom pregnancies and pyometra can 100% be cured by spaying, so you can guarantee to clear three most undesired issues to consider in a female.
molliepops
05-11-2013
Originally Posted by GibsonGirl:
“Then again, there are a lot of rescues that aren't as strict. I have lost a lot of respect for the Dogs Trust because of their policies and 'professional advice', but take the Retired Greyhound Trust for example. It is far more laid back. That is where my Mum and I got our Greyhound from and they will deliver your new dog to you and don't have a problem with testing the reactions of potential new dogs and existing dogs in the existing dogs cars. This is a big test because if an existing dog will accept a new dog in their car, then it will indicate that the existing dog will also accept the new dog in the house. The Dogs Trust are very reluctant to do that and will not deliver new dogs to you. It should also be noted that we travelled from Livingston (West Lothian) to Reston (Scottish Borders) to get her. That was about a 125 mile round trip. I don't think we would have travelled much further though.

If an even longer trip means pulling a rescue dog out of death row, then I can understand that, but travelling such huge distances just to get to a specific breeder beggars belief in my opinion.”

We will have to agree to differ I would travel as far as necessary to get a Chihuahua if I wanted another. When we got Betty we were just lucky we found her just 50 miles away but we had been to see litters in Nottingham and Cornwall before we decided Betty was the one for us.

Not all dogs/puppies are the same and not all will fit into our home as easily as she did. Perhaps if people did put in more footwork before choosing a dog we would have less in rescue.
pie-eyed
05-11-2013
Originally Posted by GibsonGirl:
“Then again, there are a lot of rescues that aren't as strict. I have lost a lot of respect for the Dogs Trust because of their policies and 'professional advice', but take the Retired Greyhound Trust for example. It is far more laid back. That is where my Mum and I got our Greyhound from and they will deliver your new dog to you and don't have a problem with testing the reactions of potential new dogs and existing dogs in the existing dogs cars. This is a big test because if an existing dog will accept a new dog in their car, then it will indicate that the existing dog will also accept the new dog in the house. The Dogs Trust are very reluctant to do that and will not deliver new dogs to you. It should also be noted that we travelled from Livingston (West Lothian) to Reston (Scottish Borders) to get her. That was about a 125 mile round trip. I don't think we would have travelled much further though.

If an even longer trip means pulling a rescue dog out of death row, then I can understand that, but travelling such huge distances just to get to a specific breeder beggars belief in my opinion.”

I agree the Retired Greyhound Trust are excellent. I asked them to choose a dog for me as I needed one who would be able to live with my cats and was prepared to wait for as long as it took to find the right one. They kept in touch with me, matched us with a dog, delivered him and tested with our existing dog and cats and kept in touch afterwards to ask how we were getting on. Dogs Trust do a great job but when we got a pup from them I did find them less than helpful on a few issues.
molliepops
05-11-2013
Originally Posted by pie-eyed:
“I agree the Retired Greyhound Trust are excellent. I asked them to choose a dog for me as I needed one who would be able to live with my cats and was prepared to wait for as long as it took to find the right one. They kept in touch with me, matched us with a dog, delivered him and tested with our existing dog and cats and kept in touch afterwards to ask how we were getting on. Dogs Trust do a great job but when we got a pup from them I did find them less than helpful on a few issues.”

I think the shear size of some of these rescues, the numbers of dogs going through them mean they cannot be as personal as the smaller rescues. They have lost the heart in their fervour to be bigger and better.
Blaise19
05-11-2013
Thanks again CW. When I had my border collie there was a wheaten terrier just along the road; he was the only dog my collie ever had a go at, probably because he couldn't see his eyes! Do they have much personality? The neigbour's dog didn't, particularly....

When I think "bearded collie" I see daily brushing! Not sure I'm up for that..... (willing, but no time).
kiviraat
05-11-2013
We tried a lovely rescue dog from just across the water a few years ago, but he just didn't get on with our house rabbit and wanted to kill her. The rescue were fantastic though as we already had a backup plan in place incase this
happened - he went to a loving family in town and is doing really well. I see him out and about sometimes!

We just got a puppy from a local breeder a month ago and it was important that we got a dog that got on well with the rabbit, didn't have any terrier/chasing instincts. and was small due to living in a flat. So we settled on a chihuahua as they fit the bill perfectly plus coincidentally there was a respected breeder on one of the local islands and she even brought him over for us. Great wee dog!
CBFreak
06-11-2013
Just another quick search for dog breeds for you Blaise. No real descriptions other then they came up as medium sized and low shedding in my search

Airedale Terrier
Portuguese Water Dog
Ibizen Hound (large?)
Pharoah Hound (large?)
Hungarian Puli (too small?)
Blaise19
08-11-2013
Thanks again CB. I think you must be a mind reader! I certainly like what I've read about pharaoh hounds, and Ibiza hounds. I think the puli and Portuguese Water Dog are still a bit too poodly, iyswim!

Now, I am sorely tempted to an Airedale, but there is one thing that puts me off: the word 'terrier' in the name But am I being unfairly prejudiced?
pie-eyed
08-11-2013
Originally Posted by Blaise19:
“Thanks again CB. I think you must be a mind reader! I certainly like what I've read about pharaoh hounds, and Ibiza hounds. I think the puli and Portuguese Water Dog are still a bit too poodly, iyswim!

Now, I am sorely tempted to an Airedale, but there is one thing that puts me off: the word 'terrier' in the name But am I being unfairly prejudiced?”

I love the character of terriers. Bold, afraid of nothing and mostly really funny! On the other hand, can be difficult and need a firm hand.
CBFreak
08-11-2013
Originally Posted by Blaise19:
“Thanks again CB. I think you must be a mind reader! I certainly like what I've read about pharaoh hounds, and Ibiza hounds. I think the puli and Portuguese Water Dog are still a bit too poodly, iyswim!

Now, I am sorely tempted to an Airedale, but there is one thing that puts me off: the word 'terrier' in the name But am I being unfairly prejudiced?”

Pharoah and Ibiza's are very pretty dogs.

Is there anything specific about the terrier personality you find off putting?

Airedale's do have that tenacity of most terriers. And like to dig. But generally though I would not call them scrappy. Ready to stand up for themselves if necessary but not scrappy.
I met an Airedale once and it was a happy friendly well behaved dog. It wanted to play with my own dog. And was not giving off any negative vibes.
CollieWobbles
09-11-2013
Originally Posted by Blaise19:
“Thanks again CB. I think you must be a mind reader! I certainly like what I've read about pharaoh hounds, and Ibiza hounds. I think the puli and Portuguese Water Dog are still a bit too poodly, iyswim!

Now, I am sorely tempted to an Airedale, but there is one thing that puts me off: the word 'terrier' in the name But am I being unfairly prejudiced?”

Yes a beardie would need a fair amount of grooming, like all th collie breeds!

Pharaoh and Ibiza hounds are sight hounds so will be attracted to fast moving objects so that's something to consider, and they've also got great stamina, bred to locate prey by sight and give chase.

Airedales are the largest Terrier breed you can get. They need to be hand stripped if you want the coat to remain correct, but a pet dog could easily be clipped (clipping a breed that is normally hand stripped can affect the coat, which is why show dogs are always stripped not clipped). If you leave the 'beard' on the face, they can drip water around after drinking, so a neat freak might find that off putting, but in a pet you could opt to clip the fur right down. They are territorial and make great guard dogs, but their also friendly, good with kids and make good pets. They can be be very obedient with strict training/ upbringing, but also have that typical terrier stubbornness that if something more enticing ( ie. squirrel on a walk) appears, the obedience tends to disappear, and like most terriers, they love to dig.

If you like the appearance of the Airedale, these breeds might also interest you:

Wire haired fox terrier
Welsh terrier
Irish terrier
Black Russian terrier ( very similar in looks to the Schnauzer)

Another breed you could look at is the Briard (a French herding breed), who although have a lot of hair, don't shed much, and you could have the coat clipped down to be manageable.

A small tip for you, to help narrow down such a vast selection to choose from, if you don't want a big shedder, I would generally avoid the gundog, working and pastoral (herding) breeds. Although there's a few exceptions, most of these have a thick double coat due to being outdoor workers, and therefore shed profusely. Also don't make the mistake of believing a short coated dog will shed less. They actually shed more, its just the hair is shorter so you can't really see it easily. A dog's hair grows continuously in a cycle of re growth breaking off after a certain length, (the poodle is the only breed whose hair would carry on growing like human hair), so the shorter it is, the quicker it reaches the end of its cycle and gets shed out.
Fizzee Rascal
10-11-2013
A Black Russian Terrier is massive. Much larger than any Airedale
CollieWobbles
11-11-2013
Originally Posted by Fizzee Rascal:
“A Black Russian Terrier is massive. Much larger than any Airedale”

Yes it is quite a large dog ( 25-29") which is slightly out of the size category Blaise requested, it is very low shedding, so thought I'd mention it anyway, incase size could be compromised on. The other 3 terriers are all roughly the same size though.
Lizaj
21-11-2013
If you can be persuaded towards the hairy, I reckon you could do a lot worse than my girl - a Keeshond. They are hardy and affectionate. They're a " basic" dog with a Wolfie face and a glorious thick double coat of grey black and cream undercoat. By basic, I mean they have not been messed with and have few health issues. Despite the coat which does need grooming every other day if not every,she sheds very little ( a .lot less than a friend's retriever). They need about an hours exercise and should not be left for more than 2-3 hours as the are very sociable. They like people especially little ones and usually other dogs. They were companion dogs on Rhine barges so used to company. The are chunky medium sized and very agile. Downside they can bark for the Netherlands but then they were watchdogs and for intelligent read mischievous and devious but for all that lovable. Ours is loopy and boisterous and destructive but then she in 10 months and we are in our sixties and it's 35 years sin ce we owned a cross breed Shepherd/Chow that my husband arrived home with aged 6 months and tucked under his arm because his mate said he was putting her down.
I have to say I think the Snauser ( sorry missed sp) seems like a good compromise coat wise and my I add that the best behaved dogs we meet in the park wether owned by track-suited lads or the middle aged are Staffies and the worst Labs on the loose followed by green Wellie wearing middle class older women
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