She didn't kill Gennie.
A revolting ending to the Cameron storyline - Debbie getting away with killing Gennie
3 of 8
Originally Posted by Aj_Whiles:
“She didn't kill Gennie.”
“She didn't kill Gennie.”
Yes her and Cameron killed Gennie and Princess Dobbeh admitted it herself.
I've seen a term for this sort of character on the website TV Tropes: Karma Houdini
For those interested: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KarmaHoudini
For those interested: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KarmaHoudini
Originally Posted by danyell:
“They should of made it that Cameron drove the car and ran Gennie off the road. It then would of been easier to forgive Debbie in her involvement in Gennies death.”
“They should of made it that Cameron drove the car and ran Gennie off the road. It then would of been easier to forgive Debbie in her involvement in Gennies death.”
I agree. I was gutted when I discovered she was the one driving
Originally Posted by Aj_Whiles:
“She didn't kill Gennie.”
“She didn't kill Gennie.”
I agree with this too. But I can see why others blame her. It is my like for the character that makes me think Gennie could have survived her injuries, I don't want to think of Debbie as a killer. Other's choose to believe that Gennie wouldn't have survived them. None of us can be proved right or wrong now.
Originally Posted by CollieWobbles:
“She really needs to split them up ( though eventually its guaranteed to happen, no one stays happy and together forever in soap land
). Their both bareable, tolerable and even quite likeable on their own, or with other villagers. But not together.
There is a vast difference between signing a false statement, keeping someone's dreadful secret or accidentally causing a crash, to actually taking someone's life. We all say it 'if you do such and such again, I'll kill you', even threaten them, doesn't meant we'd actually go through with it. Marlon could have shot Cameron, but couldn't go through with it, as its not in him, even though Cameron was a serious threat. Cain can beat people to a bloody pulp, and regularly threatens them, but no matter how far he's gone, he's never actually killed anyone, because he's not a killer. And neither is Debbie.”
“She really needs to split them up ( though eventually its guaranteed to happen, no one stays happy and together forever in soap land
). Their both bareable, tolerable and even quite likeable on their own, or with other villagers. But not together. There is a vast difference between signing a false statement, keeping someone's dreadful secret or accidentally causing a crash, to actually taking someone's life. We all say it 'if you do such and such again, I'll kill you', even threaten them, doesn't meant we'd actually go through with it. Marlon could have shot Cameron, but couldn't go through with it, as its not in him, even though Cameron was a serious threat. Cain can beat people to a bloody pulp, and regularly threatens them, but no matter how far he's gone, he's never actually killed anyone, because he's not a killer. And neither is Debbie.”
didnt Cain park his car across the road on a blind corner so the chasing police car crashed into it killing was it Angie ? The women he had an afair with ... so he has killed and wasnt Debs in prison for covering up a murder done by her doctor who side kick sweetie back when she was a carpet muncher
Originally Posted by Hoffmister:
“didnt Cain park his car across the road on a blind corner so the chasing police car crashed into it killing was it Angie ? The women he had an afair with ... so he has killed .”
“didnt Cain park his car across the road on a blind corner so the chasing police car crashed into it killing was it Angie ? The women he had an afair with ... so he has killed .”
Yes, he has killed but there is a difference between someone who has caused an accident which results in a death and a person like Cameron who deliberately sets out to murder someone. Cain did not intentionally kill Angie, he was trying to escape a police chase (and in fact tried to help her, just as Debbie tried to help Gennie). Just the same as he and Jimmy both bear some responsibility for the King's River deaths (in his vandalism of the house and Jimmy's neglecting to repair it safely) but it doesn't make them murderers. Debbie caused an accident which may or may not have resulted in a death. These are all terrible things to do, they're punishable by prison sentences and the people who have committed them have to live with that on their conscience.
They are not the same as cold bloodedly murdering someone. They are deaths caused accidentally or by carelessness or stupidity. They are not the same as deliberately setting out to take someone's life - and even worse to do it just because they are getting in your way. Even the law recognises that there is a difference between unintentionally causing a death and intentionally murdering someone.
Originally Posted by CollieWobbles:
“Debbie hasn't got away with it. As seen last night, she finally can accept all the things she's done was wrong, something I suspect she always knew, but couldn't admit it out loud, even to herself, as that would make it true, whereas by saying it wasn't her fault and 'forgetting' it, she could stay in denial. As we've seen many times, her tough as nails, don't care-wont care attitude is a face she puts on, underneath, she does care and it does affect her, regardless of what she says. She's been held hostage and had her life threatened by a murderer she detests, then by the same man, held hostage again, had a gun pointed at her several times, almost drowned several times, and now has to live for the rest of her life knowing what she's done. Every single time she sees Brenda she's going to be reminded and it will bring it all back. And that guilt will be there permanently, even if we as viewers can't see it ( because let's face it, they can't show her mourning and crying for the rest of all her scenes), doesn't mean it won't be there. I don't think that's getting away with it at all, that's a far bigger sentence than a few months in the clink for dangerous driving.”
“Debbie hasn't got away with it. As seen last night, she finally can accept all the things she's done was wrong, something I suspect she always knew, but couldn't admit it out loud, even to herself, as that would make it true, whereas by saying it wasn't her fault and 'forgetting' it, she could stay in denial. As we've seen many times, her tough as nails, don't care-wont care attitude is a face she puts on, underneath, she does care and it does affect her, regardless of what she says. She's been held hostage and had her life threatened by a murderer she detests, then by the same man, held hostage again, had a gun pointed at her several times, almost drowned several times, and now has to live for the rest of her life knowing what she's done. Every single time she sees Brenda she's going to be reminded and it will bring it all back. And that guilt will be there permanently, even if we as viewers can't see it ( because let's face it, they can't show her mourning and crying for the rest of all her scenes), doesn't mean it won't be there. I don't think that's getting away with it at all, that's a far bigger sentence than a few months in the clink for dangerous driving.”
I agree with everything you have posted.
Originally Posted by CollieWobbles:
“Debbie hasn't got away with it. As seen last night, she finally can accept all the things she's done was wrong, something I suspect she always knew, but couldn't admit it out loud, even to herself, as that would make it true, whereas by saying it wasn't her fault and 'forgetting' it, she could stay in denial. As we've seen many times, her tough as nails, don't care-wont care attitude is a face she puts on, underneath, she does care and it does affect her, regardless of what she says. She's been held hostage and had her life threatened by a murderer she detests, then by the same man, held hostage again, had a gun pointed at her several times, almost drowned several times, and now has to live for the rest of her life knowing what she's done. Every single time she sees Brenda she's going to be reminded and it will bring it all back. And that guilt will be there permanently, even if we as viewers can't see it ( because let's face it, they can't show her mourning and crying for the rest of all her scenes), doesn't mean it won't be there. I don't think that's getting away with it at all, that's a far bigger sentence than a few months in the clink for dangerous driving.”
“Debbie hasn't got away with it. As seen last night, she finally can accept all the things she's done was wrong, something I suspect she always knew, but couldn't admit it out loud, even to herself, as that would make it true, whereas by saying it wasn't her fault and 'forgetting' it, she could stay in denial. As we've seen many times, her tough as nails, don't care-wont care attitude is a face she puts on, underneath, she does care and it does affect her, regardless of what she says. She's been held hostage and had her life threatened by a murderer she detests, then by the same man, held hostage again, had a gun pointed at her several times, almost drowned several times, and now has to live for the rest of her life knowing what she's done. Every single time she sees Brenda she's going to be reminded and it will bring it all back. And that guilt will be there permanently, even if we as viewers can't see it ( because let's face it, they can't show her mourning and crying for the rest of all her scenes), doesn't mean it won't be there. I don't think that's getting away with it at all, that's a far bigger sentence than a few months in the clink for dangerous driving.”
Totally agree with that. I've heard people say in interviews and so on that it's actually better to go to prison, and take the punishment, because it helps the perpetrator deal with the guilt to some extent - they've had a punishment for their crime, they can then at least try on a practical level to get on with life after prison. I think psychologically it's far worse not to get the punishment, and still have all that weight of guilt to carry on top of that.
What made it more despicable to me is that Debbie knew Gennie was an inexperienced driver but went after her anyway knowing how scared Gennie was. So by chasing her and forcing Gennie off the road made her intentions clear what Debbie wanted to do to Gennie.
Here`s the part where Gennie was caught coming out of Debbies house.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GaCDBqadtI
Here`s the part where Gennie was caught coming out of Debbies house.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GaCDBqadtI
Originally Posted by star89:
“ I hope that Chas never forgives her”
“ I hope that Chas never forgives her”
Is this purely for dramatic purposes or do you not believe in forgiveness?
I'd like to think this is a turning point for Debbie and that we see an end to her dodgy dealing and such like. She seemed genuinely remorseful when talking to Chas yesterday. I think this could be her epiphany.
What Debbie did was terrible, that car chase was ridiculous - it wasn't even as if the crash was the first time Gennie had lost control of the vehicle. Debbie said "what is she doing?", but instead of realising how dangerous it was and backing off, she kept on the pace until Gennie lost control again
At the end of the day though she has to live with her guilt (and she now accepts her share of the responsibility). Since finding out Cameron killed Gennie she had been through a great deal: having to pretend everything was normal - even sleep with him - in order to extract a confession, and then been held hostage by him, not once but twice! She is quite clearly sickened by Cameron's actions and her trauma was clearly evident when she came to see Cameron's body taken away. Debbie's guilt and shame will be her punishment.
Let's also not forget that she got Alicia and the other hostages out of the pub, was prepared to die for Chas, and then saved her life too. So yes she has made terrible, terrible mistakes, but she's also been through a heck of a lot and behaved selflessly this week. As long as she does genuinely go through a redemption then I think Debbie can, even should be forgiven.
Originally Posted by wavlovr:
“So by chasing her and forcing Gennie off the road made her intentions clear what Debbie wanted to do to Gennie.”
“So by chasing her and forcing Gennie off the road made her intentions clear what Debbie wanted to do to Gennie.”
I think that's going a bit far. If she had deliberately wanted to run her off the road she wouldn't have been puzzled by Gennie's erratic driving, e.g. "what is she doing?" as I mentioned above. What she did was irresponsibe and highly dangerous and she should have had the foresight to see that such an accident might occur, but I don't think it's right to suggest she intended to cause an accident.
Originally Posted by wavlovr:
“What made it more despicable to me is that Debbie knew Gennie was an inexperienced driver but went after her anyway knowing how scared Gennie was. So by chasing her and forcing Gennie off the road made her intentions clear what Debbie wanted to do to Gennie.
Here`s the part where Gennie was caught coming out of Debbies house.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GaCDBqadtI”
“What made it more despicable to me is that Debbie knew Gennie was an inexperienced driver but went after her anyway knowing how scared Gennie was. So by chasing her and forcing Gennie off the road made her intentions clear what Debbie wanted to do to Gennie.
Here`s the part where Gennie was caught coming out of Debbies house.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GaCDBqadtI”
Debbie might well have known that Gennie was an inexperienced driver. Would it have occurred to her at the time though? She just wanted to stop her. Again there's a huge difference between someone intentionally setting out to force someone off the road, seriously hurt or kill them and someone who isn't thinking beyond stopping the car. The only thing that was clear there and when they were driving is that they were both panicked. I don't even think Debbie had considered what might happen - certainly not going by her reaction to Gennie's death.
Originally Posted by Telly_Fan:
“Is this purely for dramatic purposes or do you not believe in forgiveness?
I'd like to think this is a turning point for Debbie and that we see an end to her dodgy dealing and such like. She seemed genuinely remorseful when talking to Chas yesterday. I think this could be her epiphany.
What Debbie did was terrible, that car chase was ridiculous - it wasn't even as if the crash was the first time Gennie had lost control of the vehicle. Debbie said "what is she doing?", but instead of realising how dangerous it was and backing off, she kept on the pace until Gennie lost control again
At the end of the day though she has to live with her guilt (and she now accepts her share of the responsibility). Since finding out Cameron killed Gennie she had been through a great deal - having to pretend everything was normal - even sleep with him - in order to extract a confession, and then been held hostage by him, not once but twice! She is quite clearly sickened by Cameron's actions and her trauma was clearly evident when she came to see Cameron's body taken away. Debbie's guilt and shame will be her punishment.
Let's also not forget that she got Alicia and the other hostages out of the pub, was prepared to die for Chas, and then saved her life too. So yes she has made terrible, terrible mistakes, but she's also been through a heck of a lot and behaved selflessly this week. As long as she does genuinely go through a redemption then I think Debbie can, even should be forgiven.”
“Is this purely for dramatic purposes or do you not believe in forgiveness?
I'd like to think this is a turning point for Debbie and that we see an end to her dodgy dealing and such like. She seemed genuinely remorseful when talking to Chas yesterday. I think this could be her epiphany.
What Debbie did was terrible, that car chase was ridiculous - it wasn't even as if the crash was the first time Gennie had lost control of the vehicle. Debbie said "what is she doing?", but instead of realising how dangerous it was and backing off, she kept on the pace until Gennie lost control again
At the end of the day though she has to live with her guilt (and she now accepts her share of the responsibility). Since finding out Cameron killed Gennie she had been through a great deal - having to pretend everything was normal - even sleep with him - in order to extract a confession, and then been held hostage by him, not once but twice! She is quite clearly sickened by Cameron's actions and her trauma was clearly evident when she came to see Cameron's body taken away. Debbie's guilt and shame will be her punishment.
Let's also not forget that she got Alicia and the other hostages out of the pub, was prepared to die for Chas, and then saved her life too. So yes she has made terrible, terrible mistakes, but she's also been through a heck of a lot and behaved selflessly this week. As long as she does genuinely go through a redemption then I think Debbie can, even should be forgiven.”
This is very surreal, me against Debbie and someone defending her to me lol
I agree with everything you have said and have probably said it all myself in the past. Trust me no one loves Debbie more than me but the things she has done to Chas do not warrant her forgiveness. She testified against her and tried to get her sent down for life. She held a gun to her head, she allowed Chas to think she killed a man when she didn't and then she aided in the death of Chas's sister. Don't mistake that for me not wanting them to make up. I love Debbie and Chas's relationship and always have. I'm glad they have made up. Chas will always love Debbie but whether she can truly forgive her for everything she has done is a very tall ask IMO.
Originally Posted by Telly_Fan:
“Is this purely for dramatic purposes or do you not believe in forgiveness?
I'd like to think this is a turning point for Debbie and that we see an end to her dodgy dealing and such like. She seemed genuinely remorseful when talking to Chas yesterday. I think this could be her epiphany.
What Debbie did was terrible, that car chase was ridiculous - it wasn't even as if the crash was the first time Gennie had lost control of the vehicle. Debbie said "what is she doing?", but instead of realising how dangerous it was and backing off, she kept on the pace until Gennie lost control again
At the end of the day though she has to live with her guilt (and she now accepts her share of the responsibility). Since finding out Cameron killed Gennie she had been through a great deal: having to pretend everything was normal - even sleep with him - in order to extract a confession, and then been held hostage by him, not once but twice! She is quite clearly sickened by Cameron's actions and her trauma was clearly evident when she came to see Cameron's body taken away. Debbie's guilt and shame will be her punishment.
Let's also not forget that she got Alicia and the other hostages out of the pub, was prepared to die for Chas, and then saved her life too. So yes she has made terrible, terrible mistakes, but she's also been through a heck of a lot and behaved selflessly this week. As long as she does genuinely go through a redemption then I think Debbie can, even should be forgiven.”
“Is this purely for dramatic purposes or do you not believe in forgiveness?
I'd like to think this is a turning point for Debbie and that we see an end to her dodgy dealing and such like. She seemed genuinely remorseful when talking to Chas yesterday. I think this could be her epiphany.
What Debbie did was terrible, that car chase was ridiculous - it wasn't even as if the crash was the first time Gennie had lost control of the vehicle. Debbie said "what is she doing?", but instead of realising how dangerous it was and backing off, she kept on the pace until Gennie lost control again
At the end of the day though she has to live with her guilt (and she now accepts her share of the responsibility). Since finding out Cameron killed Gennie she had been through a great deal: having to pretend everything was normal - even sleep with him - in order to extract a confession, and then been held hostage by him, not once but twice! She is quite clearly sickened by Cameron's actions and her trauma was clearly evident when she came to see Cameron's body taken away. Debbie's guilt and shame will be her punishment.
Let's also not forget that she got Alicia and the other hostages out of the pub, was prepared to die for Chas, and then saved her life too. So yes she has made terrible, terrible mistakes, but she's also been through a heck of a lot and behaved selflessly this week. As long as she does genuinely go through a redemption then I think Debbie can, even should be forgiven.”
It's all her own fault though. If she hadn't erased Cameron's confession in the first place she wouldn't have had to do any of the things she had to do to get a confession out of him.
The real victims are the innocent people, who have lost their lives or a loved ones through no fault of their own.
Brenda lost her daughter, A baby will grow without a mother, Nikhil lost the love of his life. Alex and Gennie had their lives ahead of them. Alicia has been shot and almost died. And Chas had been held at gun point by Cameron and Debbie, did jail time and lost her sister.
So I really don't get why Debbie having a hard time - mostly because of her own decisions - somehow redeem the character when so many have suffered and lost more than her and because of her.
Saying that Debbie will have to live with her guilt is ridiculous. She has barely expressed any guilt and whenever she does, people are quick to tell her that she is an innocent little angel who wouldn't hurt a fly.
Originally Posted by wavlovr:
“ So by chasing her and forcing Gennie off the road made her intentions clear what Debbie wanted to do to Gennie.”
“ So by chasing her and forcing Gennie off the road made her intentions clear what Debbie wanted to do to Gennie.”
Debbie did not intend to harm Gennie, if she had, she wouldn't have called an ambulance to come and help her. I expect, that Debbie was so caught up in wanting to stop her, she didn't think of the consequences, probably thinking, 'oh she'll be alright, she'll be alright' as nine times out of ten things usually are, but in this case, she got caught out and it wasn't. Now she has to live thinking ' if only I hadn't got in the car' ' if only I'd slowed down' ' if only I hadn't met Cameron', but she can't undo it and nothing will fix it, so she has the choice to either let it eat her up, or try to make things better and get on with her life.
Originally Posted by MissLola:
“It's all her own fault though. If she hadn't erased Cameron's confession in the first place she wouldn't have had to do any of the things she had to do to get a confession out of him.
The real victims are the innocent people, who have lost their lives or a loved ones through no fault of their own.
Brenda lost her daughter, A baby will grow without a mother, Nikhil lost the love of his life. Alex and Gennie had their lives ahead of them. Alicia has been shot and almost died. And Chas had been held at gun point by Cameron and Debbie, did jail time and lost her sister.
So I really don't get why Debbie having a hard time - mostly because of her own decisions - somehow redeem the character when so many have suffered and lost more than her and because of her.
Saying that Debbie will have to live with her guilt is ridiculous. She has barely expressed any guilt and whenever she does, people are quick to tell her that she is an innocent little angel who wouldn't hurt a fly.”
“It's all her own fault though. If she hadn't erased Cameron's confession in the first place she wouldn't have had to do any of the things she had to do to get a confession out of him.
The real victims are the innocent people, who have lost their lives or a loved ones through no fault of their own.
Brenda lost her daughter, A baby will grow without a mother, Nikhil lost the love of his life. Alex and Gennie had their lives ahead of them. Alicia has been shot and almost died. And Chas had been held at gun point by Cameron and Debbie, did jail time and lost her sister.
So I really don't get why Debbie having a hard time - mostly because of her own decisions - somehow redeem the character when so many have suffered and lost more than her and because of her.
Saying that Debbie will have to live with her guilt is ridiculous. She has barely expressed any guilt and whenever she does, people are quick to tell her that she is an innocent little angel who wouldn't hurt a fly.”
Actually what you say about Cameron's confession is entirely true of course - and that's what annoyed me about her initial reluctance to help the police. It was her DUTY after destroying the original evidence to obtain new evidence. It only occurred to me a minute ago that what on earth possessed her to delete it anyway? OK, she was happy to let him get away with Carl's murder and so had no use for the evidence as far as she was concerned. But, why not keep it somewhere safe so that if he ever hurt her again she could use it as revenge?
It's also obviously true that others have suffered much worse than her, but Debbie didn't kill Gennie. Yes she was behind the wheel but she clearly wasn't thinking about the consequences. That's no excuse of course, but in a civilised society surely if someone shows genuine remorse and mends their ways then forgiveness is something that should be worked towards.
Debbie's next steps are crucial - she can't slip back into old habits or she will be proving that she doesn't deserve forgiveness. But this is why I think that this could prove to be her epiphany. I'm sure the writers are aware of accusations that "Debbie never smiles" etc and is disliked by a lot of people - more so than ever now. I think the writers will try and take her in a different direction now, or at least, I think they should. She can still have a bit of an edge. Look what they've done with Eric say. He's quite a softy generally now, though he still has he's moments - e.g. with Edna's medals. Time will tell of course but I do think we will see that these events alter Debbie.
Originally Posted by Telly_Fan:
“Debbie's next steps are crucial - she can't slip back into old habits or she will be proving that she doesn't deserve forgiveness. But this is why I think that this could prove to be her epiphany. I'm sure the writers are aware of accusations that "Debbie never smiles" etc and is disliked by a lot of people - more so than ever now. I think the writers will try and take her in a different direction now, or at least, I think they should. She can still have a bit of an edge. Look what they've done with Eric say. He's quite a softy generally now, though he still has he's moments - e.g. with Edna's medals. Time will tell of course but I do think we will see that these events alter Debbie.”
“Debbie's next steps are crucial - she can't slip back into old habits or she will be proving that she doesn't deserve forgiveness. But this is why I think that this could prove to be her epiphany. I'm sure the writers are aware of accusations that "Debbie never smiles" etc and is disliked by a lot of people - more so than ever now. I think the writers will try and take her in a different direction now, or at least, I think they should. She can still have a bit of an edge. Look what they've done with Eric say. He's quite a softy generally now, though he still has he's moments - e.g. with Edna's medals. Time will tell of course but I do think we will see that these events alter Debbie.”
I dont think the writers have any choice but to change Debbie's attitude now! Their arrogance with her over the past year has been unbelievable!
She needs to be kicked back down to being a background character for the foreseeable future to give the character (and this viewer) a badley needed break from all the bull shit she does! A brand new big storyline is the last thing she needs!
Originally Posted by CollieWobbles:
“Debbie did not intend to harm Gennie, if she had, she wouldn't have called an ambulance to come and help her. I expect, that Debbie was so caught up in wanting to stop her, she didn't think of the consequences, probably thinking, 'oh she'll be alright, she'll be alright' as nine times out of ten things usually are, but in this case, she got caught out and it wasn't. Now she has to live thinking ' if only I hadn't got in the car' ' if only I'd slowed down' ' if only I hadn't met Cameron', but she can't undo it and nothing will fix it, so she has the choice to either let it eat her up, or try to make things better and get on with her life.”
“Debbie did not intend to harm Gennie, if she had, she wouldn't have called an ambulance to come and help her. I expect, that Debbie was so caught up in wanting to stop her, she didn't think of the consequences, probably thinking, 'oh she'll be alright, she'll be alright' as nine times out of ten things usually are, but in this case, she got caught out and it wasn't. Now she has to live thinking ' if only I hadn't got in the car' ' if only I'd slowed down' ' if only I hadn't met Cameron', but she can't undo it and nothing will fix it, so she has the choice to either let it eat her up, or try to make things better and get on with her life.”
Exactly. She deserves a punishment for it but she also has the horror of having to live with guilt. Her family are being supportive because they love her, almost lost her twice in the space of a few weeks, and they know she's not as bad as Cameron. No one's saying that she didn't do anything terrible or that the victims' or their families haven't suffered.
Here's the thing - the victims families will suffer whatever punishment she gets, and there's nothing anyone can do to alter that, except them. At least they know she has had some sort of punishment, even if it's not what they would have chosen. How often do we hear murder victims' families say 'they might have got a life sentence, but they're still alive...'x' doesn't even have that,' or words to those effect. It will be hellish for poor Brenda having to face her every day though. Debbie should at least have the decency to leave the village.
Originally Posted by Glendarroch:
“Exactly. She deserves a punishment for it but she also has the horror of having to live with guilt. Her family are being supportive because they love her, almost lost her twice in the space of a few weeks, and they know she's not as bad as Cameron. No one's saying that she didn't do anything terrible or that the victims' or their families haven't suffered.
Here's the thing - the victims families will suffer whatever punishment she gets, and there's nothing anyone can do to alter that, except them. At least they know she has had some sort of punishment, even if it's not what they would have chosen. How often do we hear murder victims' families say 'they might have got a life sentence, but they're still alive...'x' doesn't even have that,' or words to those effect. It will be hellish for poor Brenda having to face her every day though. Debbie should at least have the decency to leave the village.”
“Exactly. She deserves a punishment for it but she also has the horror of having to live with guilt. Her family are being supportive because they love her, almost lost her twice in the space of a few weeks, and they know she's not as bad as Cameron. No one's saying that she didn't do anything terrible or that the victims' or their families haven't suffered.
Here's the thing - the victims families will suffer whatever punishment she gets, and there's nothing anyone can do to alter that, except them. At least they know she has had some sort of punishment, even if it's not what they would have chosen. How often do we hear murder victims' families say 'they might have got a life sentence, but they're still alive...'x' doesn't even have that,' or words to those effect. It will be hellish for poor Brenda having to face her every day though. Debbie should at least have the decency to leave the village.”
Glenda!! Wash your mouth out 
Originally Posted by JR_THELEGEND:
“I dont think the writers have any choice but to change Debbie's attitude now! Their arrogance with her over the past year has been unbelievable!
She needs to be kicked back down to being a background character for the foreseeable future to give the character (and this viewer) a badley needed break from all the bull shit she does! A brand new big storyline is the last thing she needs!”
“I dont think the writers have any choice but to change Debbie's attitude now! Their arrogance with her over the past year has been unbelievable!
She needs to be kicked back down to being a background character for the foreseeable future to give the character (and this viewer) a badley needed break from all the bull shit she does! A brand new big storyline is the last thing she needs!”
Yes, she does need to take a step back into the background for a while, take a good look at herself, look after her kids, run her garage and not raise her head above the parapet.
Originally Posted by star89:
“ Glenda!! Wash your mouth out ”
“
Glenda!! Wash your mouth out ”
I don't want her to leave either
I really meant that in real life you would, out of consideration for Brenda's grief.
Originally Posted by Telly_Fan:
“Actually what you say about Cameron's confession is entirely true of course - and that's what annoyed me about her initial reluctance to help the police. It was her DUTY after destroying the original evidence to obtain new evidence. It only occurred to me a minute ago that what on earth possessed her to delete it anyway? OK, she was happy to let him get away with Carl's murder and so had no use for the evidence as far as she was concerned. But, why not keep it somewhere safe so that if he ever hurt her again she could use it as revenge?
It's also obviously true that others have suffered much worse than her, but Debbie didn't kill Gennie. Yes she was behind the wheel but she clearly wasn't thinking about the consequences. That's no excuse of course, but in a civilised society surely if someone shows genuine remorse and mends their ways then forgiveness is something that should be worked towards.
Debbie's next steps are crucial - she can't slip back into old habits or she will be proving that she doesn't deserve forgiveness. But this is why I think that this could prove to be her epiphany. I'm sure the writers are aware of accusations that "Debbie never smiles" etc and is disliked by a lot of people - more so than ever now. I think the writers will try and take her in a different direction now, or at least, I think they should. She can still have a bit of an edge. Look what they've done with Eric say. He's quite a softy generally now, though he still has he's moments - e.g. with Edna's medals. Time will tell of course but I do think we will see that these events alter Debbie.”
“Actually what you say about Cameron's confession is entirely true of course - and that's what annoyed me about her initial reluctance to help the police. It was her DUTY after destroying the original evidence to obtain new evidence. It only occurred to me a minute ago that what on earth possessed her to delete it anyway? OK, she was happy to let him get away with Carl's murder and so had no use for the evidence as far as she was concerned. But, why not keep it somewhere safe so that if he ever hurt her again she could use it as revenge?
It's also obviously true that others have suffered much worse than her, but Debbie didn't kill Gennie. Yes she was behind the wheel but she clearly wasn't thinking about the consequences. That's no excuse of course, but in a civilised society surely if someone shows genuine remorse and mends their ways then forgiveness is something that should be worked towards.
Debbie's next steps are crucial - she can't slip back into old habits or she will be proving that she doesn't deserve forgiveness. But this is why I think that this could prove to be her epiphany. I'm sure the writers are aware of accusations that "Debbie never smiles" etc and is disliked by a lot of people - more so than ever now. I think the writers will try and take her in a different direction now, or at least, I think they should. She can still have a bit of an edge. Look what they've done with Eric say. He's quite a softy generally now, though he still has he's moments - e.g. with Edna's medals. Time will tell of course but I do think we will see that these events alter Debbie.”
So it's all OK because she finally admitted her mistake? Isn't a bit too easy.
I still haven't seen much concern for the real victims though. All she could talk about was herself - not one words or though for the victims. She is still selfish to the chore and can't show empathy. In Debbie's world there is on Debbie.
Originally Posted by Glendarroch:
“Yes, he has killed but there is a difference between someone who has caused an accident which results in a death and a person like Cameron who deliberately sets out to murder someone. Cain did not intentionally kill Angie, he was trying to escape a police chase (and in fact tried to help her, just as Debbie tried to help Gennie). Just the same as he and Jimmy both bear some responsibility for the King's River deaths (in his vandalism of the house and Jimmy's neglecting to repair it safely) but it doesn't make them murderers. Debbie caused an accident which may or may not have resulted in a death. These are all terrible things to do, they're punishable by prison sentences and the people who have committed them have to live with that on their conscience.
They are not the same as cold bloodedly murdering someone. They are deaths caused accidentally or by carelessness or stupidity. They are not the same as deliberately setting out to take someone's life - and even worse to do it just because they are getting in your way. Even the law recognises that there is a difference between unintentionally causing a death and intentionally murdering someone.”
“Yes, he has killed but there is a difference between someone who has caused an accident which results in a death and a person like Cameron who deliberately sets out to murder someone. Cain did not intentionally kill Angie, he was trying to escape a police chase (and in fact tried to help her, just as Debbie tried to help Gennie). Just the same as he and Jimmy both bear some responsibility for the King's River deaths (in his vandalism of the house and Jimmy's neglecting to repair it safely) but it doesn't make them murderers. Debbie caused an accident which may or may not have resulted in a death. These are all terrible things to do, they're punishable by prison sentences and the people who have committed them have to live with that on their conscience.
They are not the same as cold bloodedly murdering someone. They are deaths caused accidentally or by carelessness or stupidity. They are not the same as deliberately setting out to take someone's life - and even worse to do it just because they are getting in your way. Even the law recognises that there is a difference between unintentionally causing a death and intentionally murdering someone.”
wow, so its not murder you engineer a massive accident, its only murder if you nick zaks shot gun and zap someone in the face
remind me not to move to Emerdale
Originally Posted by Hoffmister:
“wow, so its not murder you engineer a massive accident, its only murder if you nick zaks shot gun and zap someone in the face remind me not to move to Emerdale ”
“wow, so its not murder you engineer a massive accident, its only murder if you nick zaks shot gun and zap someone in the face
remind me not to move to Emerdale ”
It's not murder if you cause an accident which leads to someone's death. The clue is in the word 'accident'. That's what it is, an accident.
Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human, and generally this premeditated state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide (such as manslaughter).
Originally Posted by MissLola:
“So it's all OK because she finally admitted her mistake? Isn't a bit too easy.”
“So it's all OK because she finally admitted her mistake? Isn't a bit too easy.”
I think you've been missing crucial parts of my posts:
Originally Posted by Telly_Fan:
“As long as she does genuinely go through a redemption then I think Debbie can, even should be forgiven.”
“As long as she does genuinely go through a redemption then I think Debbie can, even should be forgiven.”
Originally Posted by Telly_Fan:
“if someone shows genuine remorse and mends their ways then forgiveness is something that should be worked towards.
Debbie's next steps are crucial ”
“if someone shows genuine remorse and mends their ways then forgiveness is something that should be worked towards.
Debbie's next steps are crucial ”
It's not all OK yet, but it ought to be, in time, if she proves her remorse.
Originally Posted by MissLola:
“I still haven't seen much concern for the real victims though. All she could talk about was herself - not one words or though for the victims. She is still selfish to the chore and can't show empathy. In Debbie's world there is on Debbie”
“I still haven't seen much concern for the real victims though. All she could talk about was herself - not one words or though for the victims. She is still selfish to the chore and can't show empathy. In Debbie's world there is on Debbie”
Debbie didn't only talk about herself. She talked about Gennie and how she treated Chas. I think she can show empathy and certainly believes there is more to the world than just her - her kids for a start.
Originally Posted by Hoffmister:
“wow, so its not murder you engineer a massive accident, its only murder if you nick zaks shot gun and zap someone in the face remind me not to move to Emerdale ”
“wow, so its not murder you engineer a massive accident, its only murder if you nick zaks shot gun and zap someone in the face
remind me not to move to Emerdale ”
Did Cain intend to kill? Did he cause an accident purely to escape the police - an accident between two cars of the type which people often survive and are unharmed? If you drink drive and cause an accident is that the same as deliberately choosing to kill someone? Does it make you a murderer? If you choose to speed or drive carelessly and someone gets killed, does that make you a murderer?I'll say it again there is a huge difference between someone choosing to kill, and someone choosing to do something careless, stupid and criminal which results in a death. Morally and legally there's a difference. that's why we have sentences like 'causing death by dangerous driving,' 'culpable homicide/manslaughter' - they're not regarded as an act committed with the deliberate intention of taking a life. Had Cain killed Cameron at the quarry it would have been murder - but he wasn't so far gone that he couldn't be talked out of it, and then persuaded not to do anything more.
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