It's not a cat that she killed. She killed someone's daughter and someone's mother. What she took from Brenda and Molly, they can never replace it. It's a life sentence. And their lost daughter didn't even get some justice as one of the person responsible for her death got off scot free.

Brenda's daughter died a horrible death, I don't think a parent can ever get over the death of a child, and certainly not in those horrible circumstance.

star you need to back read the thread a bit ... Cain Dingle parked a van was it, across a blind corner to cause the chasing police car to crash into it .... he did it with malice of fore thought, causing the fatal accident ... or should I say crash... which made it murder ... now if you read back that was what the debate I was having was about... had Cain killed before and my arguement was that he had ...

No one is saying that. No one's underestimating Gennie's death. The person who murdered her has died. The person who caused the accident has to live with that guilt, and has been through a terrible ordeal. Yes, she should have got a prison sentence, but she evidently made a deal with the police. That's terrible for Brenda and Nikhil, but at least she got the justice of knowing the murderer has died. Debbie caused an accident. I sincerely doubt that she would have been tried or sentenced for murder - for a start a defence lawyer would have shot holes in that. I'm not saying she shouldn't have gone to jail, but that was evidently part of the deal of her agreeing to entrap Cameron, the murderer.

Eh


Debbie didn't kill Gennie go to Iplayer and watch episode again.

Why don't you go to itvplayer and watch Debbie admit she killed Gennie.

duplicate

unless it was done with the intention to kill it's not murder. It was done to stop another car in a chase - again you have to question what the person who committed the act's intentions were. Joyriders do stupid things all the time in cars and vans. Drunk drivers cause serious crashes. There is a difference between doing something with the intention that someone dies as a result (as with the quarry incident) and doing something in a moment of panic to evade arrest. what happened after that crash - did Cain try to help her or did he smother her? If Gennie had died as a result of her injuries, Cameron would not have murdered her. It was the fact that he chose to do something which he knew would kill her that makes him a murderer.

Your definition of scot free and mine are very different.

Debbie going to prison for life will not bring Gennie back. No matter what punishment she receives or sentence she serves; Brenda will never get her daughter back nor Molly her mother.

As wrong as what Debbie did was, she did not mean to kill Gennie. It was an accident, until Cameron killed her. Debbie was stupid and she made some very bad decisions. Prison will not make any difference to Brenda's pain and I think deep down even Brenda knows Debbie never intended to harm Gennie.

A few years back now I knew someone who's daughter died in a car crash. Her daughters friend was a new driver and was, apparently, speeding. It took a while but the person I know did forgive her daughters friend (who survived). Obviously she was angry and if the girl hadn't of been speeding then her daughter might still be alive today but it was an accident. The friend meant no harm to the other girl. She is now living with what she's done and it will haunt her forever. If she'd have just driven a bit more carefully someone's life could have been spared.

Debbie will now have to live with the same guilt. It is a harsher punishment than a few months in prison.


I apologise, I thought your post was referring to the accident Debbie caused. I did not watch ED back then so cannot comment on what Cain did. Once again my mistake

When I say life sentence - I mean it's life sentence for Brenda who'll never have a daughter again and it's a life sentence for Molly who will grow up without a mother and won't even remember her.

I know what Debbie did is not murder, IMO it's manslaughter. She should at least have done jail time for dangerous driving.

Debbie didn't do any prison time for any of her numerous crimes even the one who resulted in someone's death, nobody is giving her a hard time for her involvement in Gennie's death. She is free, has her kids, her house, her job and the support and love of her family. I think it's already a lot more than she deserves. Now on top of that she should also get forgiveness? And a OBE next?

exactly.

I dont think will ever agree on this subject but Ive emjoyed debating it with you


no probs star ... have a great evening

Well for those of us who watched it we know she didn't kill Gennie,

The one thing we agree on Lola is that. I do not think she deserves forgiveness. Especially not right now.

Everything she has done recently does not make up for what she did previously. Although we may disagree on the extent of her involvement, we do not disagree that she was involved. Gennie is dead. She isn't hurt, she won't get better in a few years. She is dead. Debbie can never take that back now. Hating herself for it, blaming herself, knowing what she did is all well and good but it will not bring Gennie back. It won't give Brenda back her daughter, it won't give Nikhil back his wife and it won't give Molly back her mother. Debbie deserves to live with that guilt for the rest of her life.

Yes totally agree with these points. The writers cannot let Debbie fall back to how she was, or that's the end of her, as nobody will like her and there'll be no point to her being there. She is obviously a popular character ( well outside of DS) or they wouldn't keep giving her these big front seat story lines, but even die hard fans would turn on her if she did that. The writers have been very lucky in hopefully being able to turn her around and redeem her, usually when they push a character so far up against a wall like that, its because they'll be killed of the next week to get their comeuppance. The only way they can redeem Debbie is to not send her spiralling backwards. Not make her completely bland, a la Katie or Pariah, as then she'd be boring and the actress would possibly leave from boredom, but certainly a lot nicer, and maybe still around but more background for awhile. Certainly none of that gangster sh!t and stuff from earlier in the year, though that was so far out I'm putting it down to a personality transplant to suit that story, and I also think it was the last work of SB being finished with.


Whilst I agree that should be done in real life, I don't want Debbie to leave, so sorry Brenda, suck it up


How do you want her to show her sorrow and concern though? By being stood at the graves with flowers in every episode? We only see 3 hours of their lives a week, that doesn't show every single thing they do. And if if they did show her doing that, people would complain it was getting boring. There's nothing much she can do, she can't wind the clock back, she can't bring them back, she's just got to move on, like everyone else. That doesn't mean she doesn't feel guilt or remorse, but she can't spend the rest of her life doing nothing but feel guilty, if that's all she does, she might as well have let Cameron drown her, as it wouldn't be much of a life. I'm not saying this for the sympathy vote, but I've lost my nan this last fortnight. For a few days I sat doing nothing except posting here, too grief stricken to want to do anything. Certainly nothing I liked, as it felt wrong, wrong that I could carry on with things when she couldn't. Then I woke up one morning last week, and realised that sitting around moping wouldn't fix anything, or help anyone, all it would do is take some more hours of my own time, and life's too short for that. Just because she's gone, doesn't mean I need to put my life on hold, but enjoying myself, laughing again and joking around on here doesn't mean I've forgotten or got over her either. I never will, she'll always be in my thoughts somewhere, but I'm not going to stop living because she has. Because if I do one day I'll wake up and realise what I've wasted and it'll be too late to change it. You can't put your life on hold for other people, you have to move on.

Sorry but the example you are giving is totally different. Gennie died because she was chased at high speed by a murderer and his moll who both new Gennie was scared. Then they lied to her face and to the police while engaging in PDA in Brenda's cafe when Gennie's body wasn't even in the ground.
Brenda has no family left now, as Nikhil was so traumatised he left the country with her grandchild.

Indeed prison does not change anything to the pain of the victim - but impunity makes it even worse for the victims.

Yes but you didn't kill your nan - you don't have to deal with the guilt of causing the death of a young mother, the guilt of knowing that because of you a child will never know her mother. The loss of a grandparent doesn't compare to the loss of a child - in horrible violent unfair circumstance. I've lost my grandparents and my father - so I know how horrible it is to lose a loved one. But the circumstances are totally different.

Saying that it would be boring to show Debbie's guilt is a bit unfair. We've had two years of nothing but her being a nasty piece of work. So if they can devote so much time to show her as a cow then surely they can slot it some time for guilt and remorse ... if she is capable of feeling those emotions for longer than 5 minutes that is.

Gennie died because Cameron covered her mouth to stop her breathing

Yes and he could easily finish her off because thanks to Debbie she had had a massive car accident who caused her many injuries that would have killed her anyway. That's why Debbie told Chas she killed Gennie and finally took responsibility for her part in Gennie's death. Cameron and Debbie both killed Gennie - one through murder and the other through manslaughter.

Could.

But she didn't kill Gennie.

So maybe Chas killed Carl because she hit his head first.

They are trying to redeem Debbie because she is one of the main female leads in the show so yes the writing in regaurd to Gennie is far fetched to a degree but she helped out the police in catching Cameron so she was let off .

But i have to say Gennie should have minded her own buisness and also she became a lit of a bitch with Nikill and the B n B towards the end so i was glad to see her leave .

In reality the actress who played Gennie was leaving the show and Charley Webb is not so they have to focus on the character who is there and not justice for the one who is gone .

No I didn't, but I still felt guilty about getting on with things. All I'm saying is doing so doesn't mean I've forgotten, and the same with Debbie, she might get on with her life, but she won't forget. But she needs to put it to the back of her mind otherwise she's going to get eaten up by guilt and never be able to move on.


Might have killed her, she may have recovered, we'll never know. And the difference is, one did it deliberately the other did it by accident. Though I do think TPTB should have kept Debbie out of the car scenes altogether, it should hav just been Cameron.

I think they did that last bit deliberately to muddy the waters a bit though, just like they did with the quarry scene. She knows she bore responsibility for the accident, and Cain had Moira point out to him that if he had cold bloodedly killed Cameron he would have been just as bad. It's been done to make both characters more aware of their own faults as well.

It can't be manslaughter because whether or not Gennie would have died without Cameron's intervention is unprovable. Debbie got off a dangerous driving charge for helping to catch a serial killer. That's just the way it is. Would you be more inclined to forgive her do you think if she had spent time in prison?

...Well actually, thinking about it, she's already served time on remand on suspicion of a murder she hadn't committed. So in actual fact it's all balanced out! OK, not balanced but the police made their decision and Debbie's hardly going to volunteer to go to prison when she has children is she?! So it's done, no amount of being angry that she isn't in prison is going to change the way the police dealt with it.


For saving Alicia? Why not? Seriously though, what is wrong with forgiveness all of sudden? I know by and large as a society we've turned our backs on religion, but the fundamentals of humanity should surely remain? Cameron is a different kettle of fish of course, I'm sure even Edna Birch won't contemplate forgiving him. But as far as Gennie's death is concerned, all Debbie did was drive irrationally and dangerously.

Which is exactly (though with different circumstances) what happened here:


Which is why star89, given that you're supposedly Debbie's biggest defender, I find you're stance:


so puzzling.

edna struggled to forgive Ashley - she'll have a hard job with VietCam (although saying that she's seemed a little softer and kinder lately, I'm beginning to like her again)