Jonathan Creek's success is more than just people staying in.

The show has name recognition, many people have followed this show since it started about 10 years ago. These new versions of Miss Marple haven't established themselves and actually compare poorly for many people to the Joan Hickson version. Creek was always going to beat Marple I'm just surprised at the margin of victory

I'm really surprised (and pleased) at The Krypton Factor's rating, I thought it would struggle to get 3 million.

Those types of shows for Big Brother never really do that well. The only one that has made an impact is the auditions show from before BB9 which managed 0.5m, probably because we knew we could see potential housemates, and we did (Luke).

Poor Marple figures especially the last one with Geraldine McEwan...

JC - why oh why it did so well...

BBC will be pleased... Wallace and Gromit - just shows how popular the duo are!!!

Great ratings for Jonathan Creek, I expect another special will be on the cards, The Krypton Factor did pretty well against EE. Marple did poorly while BBC Two did well with Three Men in more than One Boat.

New Year Eve wise, BBC One did great with New Year's Live as did Hootenany though I wonder if the O2 shows on ITV1 are in doubt as the Elton one did worse than Take That at the O2. Channel 4 had a poor night while Five did okay with An Audience with Bruce Forsyth and Comedy Heroes though I expect themed nights in the future but not on NYE.

Care to make a prediction for tonight then? Surely you have to concur it's not going to be as high as a typical CBB launch?

The leaked lineup sounds better than what was originally touted however, so perhaps they can pull a decent series out of the bag and restore some faith in the format.

However axing the live feed was beyond stupid and has alienated many of the diehard fans of the show. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. Those that watch round the clock and discuss what's happening on forums like this help generate interest in the show and get the press talking about it more as well with reporters monitoring such sites closely for developments to write about.

It was one of the things that made the show unique, the "all access" aspect, even though they would often cut sound/video. Now the series itself is going to be more contrived than ever before I would imagine.

The reasons cited for cutting it were just pathetic; i.e. live stream declining in viewers - well in previous years it was carried on Freeview was it not? Take that away and the numbers were always going to be down! "Oh, but the video clips on the website are proving more popular." It's hardly the same is it - anyone with internet access can look at those whenever, and however many times they want. Why weren't they just honest and say look it's a cost cutting exercise, and we are scared of a possible repeat of last year, which are no doubt the real reasons.

This really is crunch time for the future of Big Brother in this country now IMO. Make or break time if you like. Those that think it's untouchable are way off the mark. It's fair to say I think that Channel 4 have relied on it heavily since it took off, but given recent controversies and the inevitable ratings slide, has it become more trouble than it's actually worth?

I don't see how axing the live feed was beyond stupid. Surely the proportion of people that actually care about it being axed and will stop watching the main show as a result is tiny.

Read the entire paragraph and the one below it because I do explain the reasons.

Agreed.

We know from the E4 ratings that the audience for the live action has collapsed, to the point where E4 had to draft in repeats to replace it on the schedule during parts of BB9.

If only 10,000 watched it on E4, how many people actually bothered pressing a red button to watch it? Cant be more than a few hundred.

It was the same for I'm a Celebrity - people stopped watching it.

It was a strange piece of television in the early 2000s which quickly got boring. It wont be long until its off E4 and Channel 4 completely.

The vast, vast majority of BB viewers will come in from a day at work, watch the soaps then watch CBB and not even notice its gone.

Reference to IAC noted - think we both can agree it has well and truly entered light entertainment territory now much like I'm a Celeb and is no longer the reality experiment it once was.

The live feed must cost next to nothing to run seeing as it uses capacity which C4 own already anyway and takes the same adverts as E4 so ratings aren't of great importance.

Certainly the live coverage used to rate well though, so C4/Endemol should be looking at WHY figures have dropped if they have to the degree you suggest, and start addressing issues at the top (casting, tasks, twists, etc) rather than abruptly axing the feed without even considering the other benefits it provides.

Taking everything into account (advertising, media coverage, BB9 final ratings, lack of competition etc) I think 5.7m is a sensible guess, perhaps up to 6m at a very big push. It will definitely peak above 6m though, probably around 10pm,


Personally I think they can- Sharon Powers is back in charge and she did CBB4 which is thought of as the best, and she was also involved in CBB3 (I think). Obviously, she was also behind BB9 which is thought of as a success for the brand, if not in ratings.

I agree that its crunch time for the show and I think it can definitely get a 3.8m average, but lets face it anything above a 2m average will be a success for Channel 4. When Big Brother isn't on its very rare that Channel 4 get 3-4m viewers per night with one of the top draws for 16-34 year olds, finishing in the top 3 without fail every night, a lot of the time coming top. Its also worth noting that Big Brother 9 won its slot numerous times, but it never got credit for that because it was under the shadow of being the worst rated series ever.

The reason for number of live feed viewers dropping is because a) it was only available on Sky and b) it was boring because whenever something remotely interesting happens they'd cut away. It also isn't new anymore and there is a more obvious emphasis on the highlights.

I don't see how anything can be seen as a success for the brand if nobody was even watching.

Wow I'm glad J.C did so well last night...I hope this leads to a new series in the near future..

There have been some good ratings over the festive fortnight for BBC1...I'm sure ITV1 will bounce back in the new year with its Dancing On Ice and Wild at Heart combo on Sunday nights!

Rating hey it'a all swings and roundabouts...

And begging Alan Davies too, the other crucial part of the equation.

As for EE pt2, I think some migration away was inevitable without a big show to fill the gap (contrast with W&G on Christmas Day) and with the continuity announcers not being too prompt in plugging the second part (they plugged Celeb MM before reminding viewers to return in 30 mins). Many viewers won't even have known there was another episode on. And if they did, because it was only CMM in the filler slot, I imagine a number of people flicked to BBC2 or even The Bill for half an hour to fill the gap and then forgot to come back.

I'm convinced the BBC Schedulers had intelligence that ITV were slotting in a 30 min episode of Corrie at 8pm (with Marple perhaps at 8.30??), because the only times EE has aired with a 30 min gap like this on NYD is when ITV has shown Corrie.

Lots of spin on this thread today. Should point out at this stage that numerous people on this thread work/have worked on a Big Brother fansite

Thing is though - its pretty obvious why ratings are declining. People are tired of Big Brother. Its been flogged to death over the past decade with 9 main series and 6 celebrity series - plus IIRC one hijak series and one teen series. That makes CBB6 the SEVENTEENTH time we've seen this. Its no wonder things are starting to drag. People don't watch the live feed because they've seen it all before - sixteen times before.

There is simply no type of promotion, character, task or twist left that they haven't already exploited. People can moan about the promotion, the timeslots, the live feed and mostly the producers - but seem reluctant to admit that Big Brother, as a format, is just on its last legs. CBB6 may see a boost if they attract a really huge name to go into the house or get a really big revelation or something. But these days - those boosts will only be temporary.

I actually think the producers are starting to come to terms with their shows inevitable decline and so are re-fashioning it somewhat as "light entertainment" along the lines of I'm a Celeb and I actually don't think thats a bad idea in terms of the shows future. Those avid few hardcore fans of the live feed may be alienated to an extent (though they're hardly going to stop watching the series) - but those fans are not enough to secure the future of the show, or justify the live feed.

No those are playgrounds!

I think that we might be underestimating how well Celebrity Big Brother will do. I thought Gavin and Stacey was underperforming with its repeats and then the new episode got around 7 million. Curiosity always brings people in for the first Big Brother.

Makes no sense. ITV don't schedule NYD as if it's Christmas Day in the same way that BBC One does, and never have to my knowledge. Corrie doesn't air on a Thursday so it was never going to be airing last night.

They did the double episode last year as well I'm sure - no idea what they had in between then, because there was no Corrie last year either.

For the avoidance of any doubt, that doesn't include me.

Surprised they have launched CBB in what is still the Xmas holidays for most people. Without the usual "working week" media assault (the regular weekly/weekday shows, radio breakfast shows, free commuter papers etc), it could go unnoticed. I've not been aware of much publicity for it.

Not complaining though, the sooner this rubbish is off the telly, the better. The irony is that when CBB launched (with nightly highlights on BBC1, lest we forget, for a Comic Relief "one off") it was actually quite good, Jack Dee was a revelation on it, it had other guests on you might vaguely have heard of, and got some bloody good ratings too - I think the biggest ever BB audience is still for the Comic Relief night final on BBC1 with a 14m peak?

Like to reveal any names?

For Channel 4, 3.6m is hardly "noone" is it? And by a success for the brand I mean very positive feedback about it, something not had since CBB4. BB6 and BB7 both split people, CBB5 and BB8 are on the whole thought of as awful.


Theres been quite a lot of coverage in the papers, on teletext etc about possible housemates. Also across C4/E4/4Music there has been an advert in almost every ad break. Also most people will have been out Wednesday and yesterday so won't tonight- there is not any competition at 9pm. It should do quite well by its recent standards.

Well within the context of Big Brother then - ratings are declining. More alarmingly, that decline hasn't been gradual either.

Not really, that would just be petty. But I know of at least 3 for sure, perhaps more, all working for the same site. It's no biggie, but occasionally these individuals don't even attempt to offer a balanced view which irks me somewhat. Not all of them are guilty of this though

The only sharp jump was inbetween BB7 and BB8 from 4.7m to 3.9m. Before that the figures were jumping allover the place from as high as 5.8m to as low as 4.4m. And the reason for the sudden decline lies in the last celebrity series ...

BB9 was slightly down on BB8 (0.3m), which is roughly in line with other drops in other years, probably for the reason that BB8 was rubbish so people expected BB9 to go the same way.

But as usual the solid BB fan base (currently around 3m) will tune in tonight, as well as a lot of casual viewers and people who have never watched the show before to see about the celebrities. The thing about Big Brother is with its ratings you can't write it off because of the previous series. I'm not saying CBB6 will rate amazingly. I'm expecting it to be the worst CBB series (ratings wise, lets be real here) but I think it can definitely beat BB9, perhaps even BB8.

I'd be surprised if it managed that much. I predicted 4.8m for the ratings game, but looking at the huge number of people watching TV just now and the poor competition, I think it should push past 5m.


She worked for C4 at the time of BB5/CBB3 as Commissioning Editor for Big Brother and was responsible for the return of Celebrity Big Brother before jumping ship to Brighter Pictures/Endemol.

The show has faded out across the world. BBUK remains the most successful version of the show anywhere, but I can see it heading to pretty consistent losses every year on, a bit like the soaps. No matter how good they are, they just won't improve. BB is one of the few shows on TV that airs a similar number of hours to the soaps.

At least if the drops are at the level of BB9, it has a few years left. It just can't afford to have BB8 style declines of a million viewers.