No IPhone 5S discussion?

PencilBreath · 27-10-2013, 17:16

Quote:

You do realise that any security system has flaws? Somebody could far more easily look over your shoulder as you're typing in your passcode. You do also realise that IOS7 does not allow phones to be wiped/reused without the users' Apple ID and pass?

The fact is this 'flaw' with Touch ID requires the person to have access to a perfect copy of the fingerprint used to unlocked your phone (you can only have four), have access to the technology to photograph, clean up, and reproduce the print, and have access to your phone; and the moment you notice your phone is missing you can remotely track/block it within seconds.

I've never heard such a ridiculous argument before in my life.

stick around, they'll be lots more on the way.

calico_pie · 27-10-2013, 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosetech

We dont require hypotheticals the exploit has been verified.

The only hypothetical was you having my phone. I didn't want to suggest you would steal it after all.

But now that you hypothetically have my phone, talk me through how you would actually go about gaining access to it.

What with it being so straightforward and all....

Stiggles · 27-10-2013, 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

The only hypothetical was you having my phone. I didn't want to suggest you would steal it after all.

But now that you hypothetically have my phone, talk me through how you would actually go about gaining access to it.

What with it being so straightforward and all....

You know when any exploit is found, it only gets easier to do right?

Point is i guess is it's not even close to as secure as apple made out.

My name's Scott · 27-10-2013, 17:34

There's nothing to discuss the phone is exactly the same as the last one with the addition of a novelty fingerprint scanner

CarrieNYC · 27-10-2013, 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by My name's Scott

There's nothing to discuss the phone is exactly the same as the last one with the addition of a novelty fingerprint scanner

And the faster processer, better battery life, improved camera etc. so whilst not a huge amount has changed its hardly "exactly" the same....things can't be "exactly" the same if they have additions......anyway carry on.

My name's Scott · 27-10-2013, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarrieNYC

And the faster processer, better battery life, improved camera etc. so whilst not a huge amount has changed its hardly "exactly" the same....things can't be "exactly" the same if they have additions......anyway carry on.

Average iPhone user won't notice or care hence the non-discussion going on here.

CarrieNYC · 27-10-2013, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by My name's Scott

Average iPhone user won't notice or care hence the non-discussion going on here.

I rarely wade into the "what's the best phone debate" or the "let's all hate Apple" debate as I find them incredibly dull...,I was just pointing out a small fact.

anyonefortennis · 27-10-2013, 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by My name's Scott

Average iPhone user won't notice or care hence the non-discussion going on here.

I'm an average iPhone user and I've seen a huge difference between my iPhone 5 and 5s. Especially the battery life which is much better and the gerneral increased speeds accessing Apps and Safari.

CarrieNYC · 27-10-2013, 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by anyonefortennis

I'm an average iPhone user and I've seen a huge difference between my iPhone 5 and 5s. Especially the battery life which is much better and the gerneral increased speeds accessing Apps and Safari.

Same here, but I've only ever had an iPhone 4 before so I guess I would notice a big improvement!

rosetech · 27-10-2013, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

The only hypothetical was you having my phone. I didn't want to suggest you would steal it after all.

But now that you hypothetically have my phone, talk me through how you would actually go about gaining access to it.

What with it being so straightforward and all....

Asked and answered.

As an iPhone user I thought you would be more adept at accessing information on the internet

Stuart_h · 27-10-2013, 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pessimist

You do realise that any security system has flaws? Somebody could far more easily look over your shoulder as you're typing in your passcode. You do also realise that IOS7 does not allow phones to be wiped/reused without the users' Apple ID and pass?

The fact is this 'flaw' with Touch ID requires the person to have access to a perfect copy of the fingerprint used to unlocked your phone (you can only have four), have access to the technology to photograph, clean up, and reproduce the print, and have access to your phone; and the moment you notice your phone is missing you can remotely track/block it within seconds.

I've never heard such a ridiculous argument before in my life.

isnt the problem with fingerprint tech the fact that once someone has hacked it the security is gone .... forever ....

someone discovers your PIN - you change it.
someone discovers your pattern - you change it.

fingerprints (and faces to a degree) cant be changed .....

now for the average man/woman on the street probably not an issue - but for anyone wanting genuine security, and being in a position where someone would put time and effort into breaking your security, its a pretty easy one to crack.

anyonefortennis · 27-10-2013, 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart_h

isnt the problem with fingerprint tech the fact that once someone has hacked it the security is gone .... forever ....

someone discovers your PIN - you change it.
someone discovers your pattern - you change it.

fingerprints (and faces to a degree) cant be changed .....

now for the average man/woman on the street probably not an issue - but for anyone wanting genuine security, and being in a position where someone would put time and effort into breaking your security, its a pretty easy one to crack.

It isn't easy at all despite some peoples examples wihout providing proof.

Stiggles · 27-10-2013, 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by anyonefortennis

It isn't easy at all despite some peoples examples wihout providing proof.

Like i said, when an exploit is found, it only ever gets easier in time.

anyonefortennis · 27-10-2013, 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiggles

Like i said, when an exploit is found, it only ever gets easier in time.

Until then, me and millions of others are thrilled with the fingerprint ID.

calico_pie · 27-10-2013, 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosetech

Asked and answered.

As an iPhone user I thought you would be more adept at accessing information on the internet

I was hoping you could talk me through it as a typical opportunistic thief, rather than the very specific controlled environment that was written about on the net.

Stuart_h · 27-10-2013, 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by anyonefortennis

It isn't easy at all despite some peoples examples wihout providing proof.

no. im not saying its a 5 minute job. but taking the recent spate of celeb phone hacking. im sure that someone out there would be prepared to put a little time and effort into cloning celeb/politician fingerprints ..... once someone has a copy of your fingerprint you cant go out and change it again.

touch ID is at best useful for low level security - at worst its a little worrying IMHO. Biometrics really shouldnt be 'played with'.

Stiggles · 27-10-2013, 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by anyonefortennis

Until then, me and millions of others are thrilled with the fingerprint ID.

Good for you...

Stiggles · 27-10-2013, 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

I was hoping you could talk me through it as a typical opportunistic thief, rather than the very specific controlled environment that was written about on the net.

Controlled environment? I have all the stuff to do that at my work which is a hotel!!

calico_pie · 27-10-2013, 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stiggles

You know when any exploit is found, it only gets easier to do right?

Point is i guess is it's not even close to as secure as apple made out.

How secure did Apple make it out to be?

IIRC they made a big play about how many people (around 50%) don't bother using a passcode. And that Touch ID's main goal was, as much as anything, to make it more convenient so that more people would at least have some security rather than none.

Stuart_h · 27-10-2013, 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by anyonefortennis

Until then, me and millions of others are thrilled with the fingerprint ID.

i do think its a great little novelty item at face value. i just worry that if its not been made secure enough then it screws up fingerprint biometric use forever. someone figures out how to harvest all the apple fingerprint data and thats fingerprint use for online banking (etc) knackered. All for a quick unlock.

and thats not a dig at Apple - same goes for the HTC One Max (with fingerprint) and Dell laptops etc. Dont forget Apple arent the first to do this. Look at the recent news about the US monitoring calls and texts - stuff happens !

psionic · 27-10-2013, 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart_h

no. im not saying its a 5 minute job. but taking the recent spate of celeb phone hacking. im sure that someone out there would be prepared to put a little time and effort into cloning celeb/politician fingerprints ..... once someone has a copy of your fingerprint you cant go out and change it again.

touch ID is at best useful for low level security - at worst its a little worrying IMHO. Biometrics really shouldnt be 'played with'.

TouchID is an addition to pass codes and passwords (not instead of). It's more about convenience. Even if you can defeat the fingerprint reader, if you take too long, mess it up too many times, significantly change geographic position, let the battery run down, reboot the phone, or try and turn off location tracking or disable any security feature you will be forced to enter your password.

Stuart_h · 27-10-2013, 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

How secure did Apple make it out to be?

IIRC they made a big play about how many people (around 50%) don't bother using a passcode. And that Touch ID's main goal was, as much as anything, to make it more convenient so that more people would at least have some security rather than none.

I just worry that biometrics being stored for convenience factor is a very low key use for something quite so important. But im guessing we will disagree.

Stiggles · 27-10-2013, 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by calico_pie

How secure did Apple make it out to be?

Very secure.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5949

Quote:

IIRC they made a big play about how many people (around 50%) don't bother using a passcode. And that Touch ID's main goal was, as much as anything, to make it more convenient so that more people would at least have some security rather than none.

They also said this which was probably nonsense and sheer guess work.

Quick question. Do you actually have to use the fingerprint scanner? Or can it be turned off?

Stuart_h · 27-10-2013, 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by psionic

TouchID is an addition to pass codes and passwords (not instead of). It's more about convenience. Even if you can defeat the fingerprint reader, if you take too long, mess it up too many times, significantly change geographic position, let the battery run down, reboot the phone, or try and turn off location tracking or disable any security feature you will be forced to enter your password.

So if someone clones my fingerprint they also need to enter a PIN ? I wasnt aware it worked that way ?

IslandNiles · 27-10-2013, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart_h

i do think its a great little novelty item at face value. i just worry that if its not been made secure enough then it screws up fingerprint biometric use forever. someone figures out how to harvest all the apple fingerprint data and thats fingerprint use for online banking (etc) knackered. All for a quick unlock.

and thats not a dig at Apple - same goes for the HTC One Max (with fingerprint) and Dell laptops etc. Dont forget Apple arent the first to do this. Look at the recent news about the US monitoring calls and texts - stuff happens !

Since the fingerprint is stored locally on the phone and isn't backed up to the cloud, nobody's going to harvest all the Apple fingerprints.

It's more about convenience than security. It provides the same level of security as a passcode lock but saves time, particularly as it can also be used for iTunes and App Store purchases.

It's worked really well for me so far, anyway. I just press the home button as I normally would to unlock, then keep my thumb on the button and I'm straight in. The whole thing takes under a second and is tied to an action that I would have taken anyway.

27-10-2013, 17:16	#51
PencilBreath Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Here. Posts: 3,345	Quote: Originally Posted by Pessimist You do realise that any security system has flaws? Somebody could far more easily look over your shoulder as you're typing in your passcode. You do also realise that IOS7 does not allow phones to be wiped/reused without the users' Apple ID and pass? The fact is this 'flaw' with Touch ID requires the person to have access to a perfect copy of the fingerprint used to unlocked your phone (you can only have four), have access to the technology to photograph, clean up, and reproduce the print, and have access to your phone; and the moment you notice your phone is missing you can remotely track/block it within seconds. I've never heard such a ridiculous argument before in my life. stick around, they'll be lots more on the way.

27-10-2013, 17:24	#52
calico_pie Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 9,428	Quote: Originally Posted by rosetech We dont require hypotheticals the exploit has been verified. The only hypothetical was you having my phone. I didn't want to suggest you would steal it after all. But now that you hypothetically have my phone, talk me through how you would actually go about gaining access to it. What with it being so straightforward and all....

27-10-2013, 17:29	#53
Stiggles Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Dundee, Scotland Posts: 9,293	Quote: Originally Posted by calico_pie The only hypothetical was you having my phone. I didn't want to suggest you would steal it after all. But now that you hypothetically have my phone, talk me through how you would actually go about gaining access to it. What with it being so straightforward and all.... You know when any exploit is found, it only gets easier to do right? Point is i guess is it's not even close to as secure as apple made out.

27-10-2013, 17:34	#54
My name's Scott Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Homerton, London, E9 Posts: 1,742	There's nothing to discuss the phone is exactly the same as the last one with the addition of a novelty fingerprint scanner

27-10-2013, 17:50	#55
CarrieNYC Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 404	Quote: Originally Posted by My name's Scott There's nothing to discuss the phone is exactly the same as the last one with the addition of a novelty fingerprint scanner And the faster processer, better battery life, improved camera etc. so whilst not a huge amount has changed its hardly "exactly" the same....things can't be "exactly" the same if they have additions......anyway carry on.

27-10-2013, 18:19	#56
My name's Scott Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Homerton, London, E9 Posts: 1,742	Quote: Originally Posted by CarrieNYC And the faster processer, better battery life, improved camera etc. so whilst not a huge amount has changed its hardly "exactly" the same....things can't be "exactly" the same if they have additions......anyway carry on. Average iPhone user won't notice or care hence the non-discussion going on here.

27-10-2013, 18:25	#57
CarrieNYC Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 404	Quote: Originally Posted by My name's Scott Average iPhone user won't notice or care hence the non-discussion going on here. I rarely wade into the "what's the best phone debate" or the "let's all hate Apple" debate as I find them incredibly dull...,I was just pointing out a small fact.

27-10-2013, 18:28	#58
anyonefortennis Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: 🇬🇧 Posts: 60,865	Quote: Originally Posted by My name's Scott Average iPhone user won't notice or care hence the non-discussion going on here. I'm an average iPhone user and I've seen a huge difference between my iPhone 5 and 5s. Especially the battery life which is much better and the gerneral increased speeds accessing Apps and Safari.

27-10-2013, 18:30	#59
CarrieNYC Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 404	Quote: Originally Posted by anyonefortennis I'm an average iPhone user and I've seen a huge difference between my iPhone 5 and 5s. Especially the battery life which is much better and the gerneral increased speeds accessing Apps and Safari. Same here, but I've only ever had an iPhone 4 before so I guess I would notice a big improvement!

27-10-2013, 19:06	#60
rosetech Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,058	Quote: Originally Posted by calico_pie The only hypothetical was you having my phone. I didn't want to suggest you would steal it after all. But now that you hypothetically have my phone, talk me through how you would actually go about gaining access to it. What with it being so straightforward and all.... Asked and answered. As an iPhone user I thought you would be more adept at accessing information on the internet

27-10-2013, 19:16	#61
Stuart_h Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,474	Quote: Originally Posted by Pessimist You do realise that any security system has flaws? Somebody could far more easily look over your shoulder as you're typing in your passcode. You do also realise that IOS7 does not allow phones to be wiped/reused without the users' Apple ID and pass? The fact is this 'flaw' with Touch ID requires the person to have access to a perfect copy of the fingerprint used to unlocked your phone (you can only have four), have access to the technology to photograph, clean up, and reproduce the print, and have access to your phone; and the moment you notice your phone is missing you can remotely track/block it within seconds. I've never heard such a ridiculous argument before in my life. isnt the problem with fingerprint tech the fact that once someone has hacked it the security is gone .... forever .... someone discovers your PIN - you change it. someone discovers your pattern - you change it. fingerprints (and faces to a degree) cant be changed ..... now for the average man/woman on the street probably not an issue - but for anyone wanting genuine security, and being in a position where someone would put time and effort into breaking your security, its a pretty easy one to crack.

27-10-2013, 19:22	#62
anyonefortennis Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: 🇬🇧 Posts: 60,865	Quote: Originally Posted by Stuart_h isnt the problem with fingerprint tech the fact that once someone has hacked it the security is gone .... forever .... someone discovers your PIN - you change it. someone discovers your pattern - you change it. fingerprints (and faces to a degree) cant be changed ..... now for the average man/woman on the street probably not an issue - but for anyone wanting genuine security, and being in a position where someone would put time and effort into breaking your security, its a pretty easy one to crack. It isn't easy at all despite some peoples examples wihout providing proof.

27-10-2013, 19:27	#63
Stiggles Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Dundee, Scotland Posts: 9,293	Quote: Originally Posted by anyonefortennis It isn't easy at all despite some peoples examples wihout providing proof. Like i said, when an exploit is found, it only ever gets easier in time.

27-10-2013, 19:31	#64
anyonefortennis Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: 🇬🇧 Posts: 60,865	Quote: Originally Posted by Stiggles Like i said, when an exploit is found, it only ever gets easier in time. Until then, me and millions of others are thrilled with the fingerprint ID.

27-10-2013, 19:31	#65
calico_pie Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 9,428	Quote: Originally Posted by rosetech Asked and answered. As an iPhone user I thought you would be more adept at accessing information on the internet I was hoping you could talk me through it as a typical opportunistic thief, rather than the very specific controlled environment that was written about on the net.

27-10-2013, 19:32	#68
Stiggles Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Dundee, Scotland Posts: 9,293	Quote: Originally Posted by calico_pie I was hoping you could talk me through it as a typical opportunistic thief, rather than the very specific controlled environment that was written about on the net. Controlled environment? I have all the stuff to do that at my work which is a hotel!!

27-10-2013, 19:35	#69
calico_pie Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 9,428	Quote: Originally Posted by Stiggles You know when any exploit is found, it only gets easier to do right? Point is i guess is it's not even close to as secure as apple made out. How secure did Apple make it out to be? IIRC they made a big play about how many people (around 50%) don't bother using a passcode. And that Touch ID's main goal was, as much as anything, to make it more convenient so that more people would at least have some security rather than none.

27-10-2013, 19:38	#70
Stuart_h Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,474	Quote: Originally Posted by anyonefortennis Until then, me and millions of others are thrilled with the fingerprint ID. i do think its a great little novelty item at face value. i just worry that if its not been made secure enough then it screws up fingerprint biometric use forever. someone figures out how to harvest all the apple fingerprint data and thats fingerprint use for online banking (etc) knackered. All for a quick unlock. and thats not a dig at Apple - same goes for the HTC One Max (with fingerprint) and Dell laptops etc. Dont forget Apple arent the first to do this. Look at the recent news about the US monitoring calls and texts - stuff happens !

27-10-2013, 19:39	#71
psionic Forum Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Crystal Palace TX Posts: 19,702	Quote: Originally Posted by Stuart_h no. im not saying its a 5 minute job. but taking the recent spate of celeb phone hacking. im sure that someone out there would be prepared to put a little time and effort into cloning celeb/politician fingerprints ..... once someone has a copy of your fingerprint you cant go out and change it again. touch ID is at best useful for low level security - at worst its a little worrying IMHO. Biometrics really shouldnt be 'played with'. TouchID is an addition to pass codes and passwords (not instead of). It's more about convenience. Even if you can defeat the fingerprint reader, if you take too long, mess it up too many times, significantly change geographic position, let the battery run down, reboot the phone, or try and turn off location tracking or disable any security feature you will be forced to enter your password.

27-10-2013, 19:40	#72
Stuart_h Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,474	Quote: Originally Posted by calico_pie How secure did Apple make it out to be? IIRC they made a big play about how many people (around 50%) don't bother using a passcode. And that Touch ID's main goal was, as much as anything, to make it more convenient so that more people would at least have some security rather than none. I just worry that biometrics being stored for convenience factor is a very low key use for something quite so important. But im guessing we will disagree.

27-10-2013, 19:41	#73
Stiggles Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Dundee, Scotland Posts: 9,293	Quote: Originally Posted by calico_pie How secure did Apple make it out to be? Very secure. http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5949 Quote: IIRC they made a big play about how many people (around 50%) don't bother using a passcode. And that Touch ID's main goal was, as much as anything, to make it more convenient so that more people would at least have some security rather than none. They also said this which was probably nonsense and sheer guess work. Quick question. Do you actually have to use the fingerprint scanner? Or can it be turned off?

DS Forums

No IPhone 5S discussion?

27-10-2013, 19:41	#74
Stuart_h Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,474	Quote: Originally Posted by psionic TouchID is an addition to pass codes and passwords (not instead of). It's more about convenience. Even if you can defeat the fingerprint reader, if you take too long, mess it up too many times, significantly change geographic position, let the battery run down, reboot the phone, or try and turn off location tracking or disable any security feature you will be forced to enter your password. So if someone clones my fingerprint they also need to enter a PIN ? I wasnt aware it worked that way ?

27-10-2013, 19:43	#75
IslandNiles Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 13,091	Quote: Originally Posted by Stuart_h i do think its a great little novelty item at face value. i just worry that if its not been made secure enough then it screws up fingerprint biometric use forever. someone figures out how to harvest all the apple fingerprint data and thats fingerprint use for online banking (etc) knackered. All for a quick unlock. and thats not a dig at Apple - same goes for the HTC One Max (with fingerprint) and Dell laptops etc. Dont forget Apple arent the first to do this. Look at the recent news about the US monitoring calls and texts - stuff happens ! Since the fingerprint is stored locally on the phone and isn't backed up to the cloud, nobody's going to harvest all the Apple fingerprints. It's more about convenience than security. It provides the same level of security as a passcode lock but saves time, particularly as it can also be used for iTunes and App Store purchases. It's worked really well for me so far, anyway. I just press the home button as I normally would to unlock, then keep my thumb on the button and I'm straight in. The whole thing takes under a second and is tied to an action that I would have taken anyway.