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Old 25-10-2013, 21:19
finbaar
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Watching the rundown of Pete's career on that **** Morgan show I was again struck by the thought that every single song he had a hand in was absolute crap stating with pass the duchie.

Or was he ever involved in anything good.?
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Old 26-10-2013, 08:55
mushymanrob
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Watching the rundown of Pete's career on that **** Morgan show I was again struck by the thought that every single song he had a hand in was absolute crap stating with pass the duchie.

Or was he ever involved in anything good.?
hey...im no fan by a mile (as many fans know lol) but i dont think everything he did was crap... his (s)hit factory just took that same formula too far but before that he did produce a few decent pop songs.

erm... he also did songs before pass the duchie...
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Old 26-10-2013, 10:44
DRAGON LANCE
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Yeah its a bit extreme to say everything he touched was bad. Some of its pretty wretched and some of it was decent enough pop. I would say everything after the 80's was pretty naff though (I'm looking at you Steps).

I think I once saw he say something like "What's the best selling music the world? Middle of the road." And he was pretty happy to be that. Not everyone wants to change the world and I guess Waterman knows his audience.
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Old 26-10-2013, 10:57
mgvsmith
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Waterman did work on some reggae records including Susan Cadogan's 'Hurt so Good' according to Wikipedia.
And I did like the Nik Kershaw big songs but if you look at the SAW greatest hits stuff.......
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Old 26-10-2013, 12:31
mushymanrob
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ill give him one thing.... he is a great businessman. pity about the product.
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Old 26-10-2013, 12:33
Jon O
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he gave the public what they wanted, Steps were extremely popular at one time
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Old 26-10-2013, 18:18
mushymanrob
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he gave the public what they wanted, Steps were extremely popular at one time
only some members of the public.... ones who only wanted a brain dead 3 minute pop ditty...
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Old 29-10-2013, 12:47
scrilla
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Watching the rundown of Pete's career on that **** Morgan show I was again struck by the thought that every single song he had a hand in was absolute crap stating with pass the duchie.

Or was he ever involved in anything good.?
Princess - Say I'm Your Number One
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehVskhiS2x8

Princess - After The Love Has Gone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBTlyD1xHtI

Princess - I'll Keep On Loving You
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9-AoPpjlA8

Brilliant - It's a Man's Man's Man's World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btYwCT97VaU

Brilliant - Love Is War
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V57lEVzJn8g

Stock Aitken Waterman - Roadblock
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF28Z_lr3t4
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Old 29-10-2013, 13:09
Mixmas
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It depends what you think of as good and crap. Everyone has their own taste in music. If you don't like it it doesn't make it crap. You don't have to justify not liking it by trying to make out it something to do with the way it's produced. If the Beatles write a song in 10 minutes they are geniuses, if you are Stock Aitken and waterman then you have no talent and have obviously thrown it together. In reality it doesn't matter how long it took. You either get it or you don't. I know someone who thinks the Beatles and the stones were crap by the way. And people look at him stupid because he dares to say it.
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Old 29-10-2013, 13:43
Deep Purple
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I think crap is a fair summary.
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Old 29-10-2013, 13:48
mushymanrob
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It depends what you think of as good and crap. Everyone has their own taste in music. If you don't like it it doesn't make it crap. You don't have to justify not liking it by trying to make out it something to do with the way it's produced. If the Beatles write a song in 10 minutes they are geniuses, if you are Stock Aitken and waterman then you have no talent and have obviously thrown it together. In reality it doesn't matter how long it took. You either get it or you don't. I know someone who thinks the Beatles and the stones were crap by the way. And people look at him stupid because he dares to say it.
strange...you joined in june 2012 but have only just started posting!

no...its not about taste. musicianship can be measured, assessed by experts, a songs impact can be seen through time on its influence on others. so on that count the beatles will always be miles superior to s/a/w.

however, personal taste is different, anyone is free to like or dislike wtf they want. you dont have to like the beatles, but to deny their impact on music (ie calling them crap) just makes the person saying it look stupid.
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Old 29-10-2013, 14:48
zx50
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Watching the rundown of Pete's career on that **** Morgan show I was again struck by the thought that every single song he had a hand in was absolute crap stating with pass the duchie.

Or was he ever involved in anything good.?
I certainly wouldn't say that I Should Be So Lucky was absolute crap. That was very catchy.
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Old 29-10-2013, 16:54
MrMarple
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I'm 50/50 with the 'SAW were crap' argument.

I actually liked quite a lot of their songs, but a lot were rubbish, I agree.

However, when they got it right, they got it very right IMO.

'Happenin' All Over Again' was a fantastic pop song & the album they made with Donna Summer, 'Another Place & Time' was brilliant. In fact 25 years on and it's still in my Top 10 albums of all time.
The 3rd & 4th albums they recorded with Kylie weren't too shabby either if I'm honest.

But it's all subjective based on personal tastes really isn't it?

And on an unrelated note, if I was a singer, I'd rather have Pete Waterman in charge of my career than Simon Cowell.
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Old 29-10-2013, 17:41
mushymanrob
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And on an unrelated note, if I was a singer, I'd rather have Pete Waterman in charge of my career than Simon Cowell.

why? both are similar and would make you money... its like saying what would you sooner eat, dogsh1t or catsh1t..
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Old 29-10-2013, 17:51
chrisqc
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Loved the SAW era it made me discover british pop stars and got me interessed in import records charts

Sam fox, bananarama, rick astley, kylie, sonia, so many great songs still loved them to this day
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Old 29-10-2013, 18:22
MrMarple
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why? both are similar and would make you money... its like saying what would you sooner eat, dogsh1t or catsh1t..
Ha ha. I just think you'd have a better chance at a decent career with PW. I don't know why really. Although take Kylie for instance. Her third & fourth albums were relative flops in terms of sales. But it was her decision to leave SAW. They were still expecting to make more albums with her. Now look at Leona Lewis. I have no doubt that if her fourth albums flops like her previous one did, she'll be dropped like a hot potato. I could be wrong, I have absolutely no inside knowledge at all. Also, I think sometimes that SAW get slated when it isn't totally deserved. Take 'I'd Rather Jack' for instance. That song was basically the predecessor to Kylies 'Step Back in Time', which good good reviews. IRJ was slated because he chose two women who looked like they hadn't seen a shower for two months to sing it. If Kylie had released it, I think it would have been a hell of a lot better received if you see what I mean? Anyway mushymanrob, I know that I will never win an argument with you regarding SAW (I've read many of your posts on the subject in the past), so can we agree to disagree? Sorry about the format of this post, I'm on my phone and it isn't the best for typing.
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Old 29-10-2013, 20:14
Mixmas
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[quote=mushymanrob; musicianship can be measured, assessed by experts.[/QUOTE]

I disagree, the sex pistols couldn't hold a note, but made some amazing music. Sting is a fine musician but tends to bore the pants off me.
Once you consider people as experts in music you wander off into the relms of musical snobbery as far as I'm concerned.
It's like those people who talk about songs or artists being a "guilty pleasure" which actually means "i like it but it wouldn't be cool to say so, so I have to be ashamed of myself for likening it".
On the subject of influence. PWL were producing modern day cheesy pop/dance, long before anyone else. Simon cowell says that Pete Waterman is his biggest influence. And half the "crap" dance tracks in the charts are based on their ideas.
So i do hope influence isn't all. Otherwise Simon Cowell might be considered good as well.
In the end i still think...if it hits your ears and you like it, it's good. If you don't, it's crap. And I don't care who wrote/sung it, how long it took too record, how clever you are, what instruments you play, how brilliant your last song was or whether you're a new artists or a old one.

Ps. You are right, I've never posted before. I'm actually laughing to myself that the subject of Pete waterman has got me writing. LOL. I'm not even a fan. I just have this thing about musical snobbery.
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Old 30-10-2013, 07:15
mushymanrob
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I disagree, the sex pistols couldn't hold a note, but made some amazing music. Sting is a fine musician but tends to bore the pants off me.
Once you consider people as experts in music you wander off into the relms of musical snobbery as far as I'm concerned.
It's like those people who talk about songs or artists being a "guilty pleasure" which actually means "i like it but it wouldn't be cool to say so, so I have to be ashamed of myself for likening it".
On the subject of influence. PWL were producing modern day cheesy pop/dance, long before anyone else. Simon cowell says that Pete Waterman is his biggest influence. And half the "crap" dance tracks in the charts are based on their ideas.
So i do hope influence isn't all. Otherwise Simon Cowell might be considered good as well.
In the end i still think...if it hits your ears and you like it, it's good. If you don't, it's crap. And I don't care who wrote/sung it, how long it took too record, how clever you are, what instruments you play, how brilliant your last song was or whether you're a new artists or a old one.

Ps. You are right, I've never posted before. I'm actually laughing to myself that the subject of Pete waterman has got me writing. LOL. I'm not even a fan. I just have this thing about musical snobbery.
true, the pistols couldnt hold a not and musically were rubbish, but their songs captured a mood, a feeling, and inspired others.

but its an unfair comparison, because punk was about much more then music, and thats where the sex pistols get their regard from.

as for snobbery.... i can see why it exists, you get trite , manufactured, three minute confetti tracks that say nothing...then you get a well crafted , composed, produced, track with a message... isnt one 'better' then the other?
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