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Sophie was Overmarked !!!
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soexcited
27-10-2013
Lacklustre is the word that comes to mind. Not sure if she is reserved or if its her long sinewy frame that made ccc more difficult for her. Reminds me of Holly Valance who I always felt needed 'something' that on screen came across that she needed more effort and only put 90% into it. Generally didn't think many dances were that great last night. Still can't warm to Natalie but her routine and Abby's were the best last night in my opinion. Rachel was dire, worst of the night next to Dave for me.
Miriam_R
27-10-2013
I think she was over-marked, but again, other dancers were too yesterday. I really find this generosity of the judges annoying. Craig said to Mark last week about the audience standing ovation giving him and false sense of security, but I think that comment could be applied over and over with some of the judges marking over these last three shows (inc Craig's which I never though I'd say).
Moonbean
27-10-2013
Me and Mum both thought Sophie actually went wrong a couple of times, but none of the judges mentioned it so maybe we were wrong! Either way, it wasn't a great dance. No passion, no spark.
yellowlabbie
27-10-2013
Originally Posted by slappers r us:
“I agree with most of your post except for the foxtrot
I only thought that was alright

BIB
she wont get away with her (IMO) lazy way of dancing in those dances being too cool wont work in those


I dont get the comments of her being good, she always looks awkward, uncoordinated, ungainly, inelegant, gawky, gauche and all legs and arms”

I agree slappers, she is very ungainly and awkward, I just don't like to watch her dance, she is indeed 'gawky'.
nobler
27-10-2013
Sophie is a cold fish and her Latin is just like everybody knew it would be - bad. Refusing fake tan when everyone else has to have it makes her seem diva like to me.
yellowlabbie
27-10-2013
Originally Posted by nobler:
“Sophie is a cold fish and her Latin is just like everybody knew it would be - bad. Refusing fake tan when everyone else has to have it makes her seem diva like to me.”

Agreed, who does she think she is
girlcrisis
27-10-2013
I do agree that she was over marked (6's and 7's would have been more appropriate) but her position on the leader board was fair. She seemed to go wrong a few times and seemed a bit uncertain and tentative but I do think she recovered better from her mistakes than Abbey did during her Cha Cha Cha.

I don't really want to write Sophie off based on a couple of underwhelming Latin dances. I think she has an intriguing sort of quality to her and I don't believe that she isn't putting in the effort or doesn't care about the show. Her Cha Cha Cha had the feel of someone who had put in a lot of work into trying to learn something that didn't come naturally to her and she seemed embarrassed because she knew she wasn't getting it right.

I think she is trying to make the effort to perform the character of the dances (I really wouldn't describe her face as "blank" or "vacant") but she's not an actress and seems to be quite an introverted personality type, unaccustomed to making a big show of her emotions. I do wish Brendan would address the issue though (surely if the budget can stretch to giving Rachel Riley acting lessons then Sophie could get some too. I suspect they would be more effective as well.). He seems to think that just because he got away with a cool and aloof Charleston that he can choreograph every dance around Sophie's cool demeanour and limitations as a performer and as a result Sophie is starting to come across as a bit one note.
thenetworkbabe
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by Damahepa:
“Whilst I'm not sure about overmarked, Sophie definitely didn't seem confident tonight. What confuses me is, whilst yes, clearly she's better in the ballroom, her Charleston remains her best dance to date, pretty much unanimously decided so- and yet she spent the entire thing out of hold, did complicated solos and tremendous flips and lifts- all of which suggests latin dances should play right into her hands! The Samba is perhaps tricky because it was such a technical dance for week 3, but her CCC should have been much better! Maybe nerves got her tonight :S but it remains a mystery to me how she struggles with Latin so much after all the key elements to it were in the dance she loved most!”

The missing question was what that choregraphy was meant to look like? Either she made errors and lost track - or she was doing what someone thought was a good idea to do. No one said she had got lost if she did - so is Brendan to blame for composing something that looked like that, or looked like that when she tried to do it? The same could be said for Rachel (wrong music, wrong choregraphy,too much difficulty, wrong acting focus and look) and Deborah (chair pushing wins no votes)

Sophie is still in the game though. Natalie still isn't giving a great emotional or beautiful or dramatic performance. She scores for technique but not stage presence or excitement. Abbey's acting is weaker still. Susanna is close behind in the race and probably has more champions appeal, as well as a BBC fanbase. Sophie has the musicality and ability to play the classic roles that the others lack - if she gets the right songs and Brendan can do them justice and she avoids any more killer Latin dances at wrong moments.
-Sid-
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by girlcrisis:
“I do agree that she was over marked (6's and 7's would have been more appropriate) but her position on the leader board was fair. She seemed to go wrong a few times and seemed a bit uncertain and tentative but I do think she recovered better from her mistakes than Abbey did during her Cha Cha Cha.

I don't really want to write Sophie off based on a couple of underwhelming Latin dances. I think she has an intriguing sort of quality to her and I don't believe that she isn't putting in the effort or doesn't care about the show. Her Cha Cha Cha had the feel of someone who had put in a lot of work into trying to learn something that didn't come naturally to her and she seemed embarrassed because she knew she wasn't getting it right.

I think she is trying to make the effort to perform the character of the dances (I really wouldn't describe her face as "blank" or "vacant") but she's not an actress and seems to be quite an introverted personality type, unaccustomed to making a big show of her emotions. I do wish Brendan would address the issue though (surely if the budget can stretch to giving Rachel Riley acting lessons then Sophie could get some too. I suspect they would be more effective as well.). He seems to think that just because he got away with a cool and aloof Charleston that he can choreograph every dance around Sophie's cool demeanour and limitations as a performer and as a result Sophie is starting to come across as a bit one note.”

That's a pretty fair assessment girlcrisis.

I think the Cha Cha required Sophie to express herself in a way none of the other dances so far had and in a way that made her feel self-conscious and shy and a bit silly (like any kind of dancing makes me feel!). And when you feel like that, your body's going to stiffen up and you will lose your balance and make errors and look somewhat lost.

Whether she and Brendan can find a way to make her open up and loosen up in those dances remains to be seen. Like you say, there's no harm in hiring an acting coach. It worked for Gethin (who I think had a similar problem letting go). I really hope it's something Sophie can overcome.
Heavenly
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by sofakat:
“Sophie just proved what I have been saying abut her all along - she's exquisite to look at but danced like she is a million miles away and on Mogadon.

No hip action, no fire, no expression, zero emotion. You can't just keep dancing like a beautiful shop window dummy and expect to beat competition like Natalie and Abbey.”

Spot on .

I really like Sophie and Brendan as a partnership, and I love her ballroom but both her latins have been very disappointing. She won't win this if her latin doesn't improve, imo.
pinkwafer
28-10-2013
She is a little too shop mannequin for me. She doesn't have a great range of expressions and she needs to work on her arms having more fluidity. She tends to just fling them out to the side quite stiffly. If she can let herself go a bit more I think her latin will look a bit better.
Becky_B
28-10-2013
Something seemed really awry, almost as if there was something going on with Brendan... it felt very odd to watch.
Miriam_R
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by nobler:
“Sophie is a cold fish and her Latin is just like everybody knew it would be - bad. Refusing fake tan when everyone else has to have it makes her seem diva like to me.”

Well, I can see why people would think that (even if I don't agree with the description itself).

I think to sum up Sophie, her feeling of dance (and this may well be an unfair generalisation to put on her across the board) is prob abit like her opinon of the Charleston. She thought it looked buffooney (or however you spell it) and I think she's worried deep in the back of her mind (or even the forefront maybe more often) that dancing will make her look how she doesn't want it to. Obv I don't know her personally, but she does remind me of peope I know and I get the impression with her that she only lets her inhibitions out when she really wants to, prob around those that she really loves and in a safe environment where there is no scrutiny and neither shame of embarassing picture/video memeories popping up to remind her of things. I don't think (even if she wanted to) that she could be like Dave where everything is laid bare and there is no real differentiation between pride or passion (it's just all the same and thrown out there for you to take or leave it). Even Rachel blatantly shows she's trying to convey how something is meant to look, even if the result isn't exactly (or anywhere near) the right effect behind the intent. People use 'cool' for sophie, but I think there is a fear there too (though some may feel it's just vanity).

I don't think Sophie would be in the show if she really wasn't bothered about being on it and trying to prove something to herself. But I jst think the problem is that she's prob finding it harder than she thought would, and underplaying things is perhaps her coping mechanism for keeping a sense of control over herself just so nothing were to occur that she might regret being seen in such a public place (as Tv is). I'm sure she'd tell us till she's blue in the face that she's trying to live each dance, but sometimes mind and body fool us and aren't actually working together as you'd want or hope. This is more how I see Sophie, rather than cold or diva-ish (despite understandably seeing how both descriptions seem so easy to apply to her). I personally don't think her Latin is bad, but it's not great either, though not the worst either too. And I'm guessing Sophie would be ok with not being the best Latin dancer if her sense of self is kept in tact.
j4Rose
28-10-2013
I don't think that Sophie is a "cold fish". Why can't someone be shy/reserved without their personality being decimated? Does everyone in the world have to be boisterous and loud?

I HATE this judgemental attitude as I'm shy myself, but that doesn't mean that I have no personality or that I'm cold
Becky_B
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by j4Rose:
“I don't think that Sophie is a "cold fish". Why can't someone be shy/reserved without their personality being decimated? Does everyone in the world have to be boisterous and loud?

I HATE this judgemental attitude as I'm shy myself, but that doesn't mean that I have no personality or that I'm cold ”

Seconded.
Plus i thought her Charleston showed tons of character.

But gurning and mugging for the camera seems to please people more.
sofakat
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by j4Rose:
“I don't think that Sophie is a "cold fish". Why can't someone be shy/reserved without their personality being decimated? Does everyone in the world have to be boisterous and loud?

I HATE this judgemental attitude as I'm shy myself, but that doesn't mean that I have no personality or that I'm cold ”

I agree with you and I'd never criticise someone for being shy. I'd actually be quite protective of them, but if you have chosen to do a live television dance show you have to realise that people expect you to perform and to be entertaining. Dance demands emotion and giving yourself to the dance and being truly in the spirit of it if you have an audience.

You kind of have to deal with that exposure and attention and accept it. She's not managing it very well. I don't think she's cold, I think she is very, very introverted - but that just doesn't work in dance.

You either have to get over it, or simply not put yourself in that position at all.
sofakat
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by Becky_B:
“Seconded.
Plus i thought her Charleston showed tons of character.

But gurning and mugging for the camera seems to please people more.”

The Charleston suited her. Slow ballroom does too, as long as she is in hold, a lot.

Fire, character and joy does not have to entail 'gurning and mugging' - unless you are Lisa Riley.

Joy, enthusiasm and emotion is what is required for dance to work.

You have to connect with people if you perform, unless you are in your back bedroom boogying in front of a mirror.

Sophie dances like a beautiful robot. She can't get away with that forever, no matter how wonderful she looks.
Rhumbatugger
28-10-2013
Good post Sofakat.

Spot on.
Becky_B
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by sofakat:
“The Charleston suited her. Slow ballroom does too, as long as she is in hold, a lot.”

There was plenty of character in her Charleston, and a real flapper vibe.


Originally Posted by sofakat:
“Fire, character and joy does not have to entail 'gurning and mugging' - unless you are Lisa Riley.”

Or Mark Benton


Originally Posted by sofakat:
“Joy, enthusiasm and emotion is what is required for dance to work.

You have to connect with people if you perform, unless you are in your back bedroom boogying in front of a mirror.”

Admittedly something seemed wrong this week, but i think there has been character in her other dances, she's just not as effusive or hammy as some.

It's like people don't even see subtlety anymore.

In the past i have found her a little cold, a little 'too cool for school' but i've warmed to her since Strictly started.
nobler
28-10-2013
OK fair enough if it was an offensive comment I apologise but I wasnt actually passing comment on shy and reserved people, it was others turning it into a general judgement when I was talking about Sophie specifically. There have been loads of shy and reserved people on SCD who I don't think it about and plenty of really good real life mates too. Nowt wrong with being shy and I definitely dont think it means your cold or lackinv in personality. Id be much more likely to ask shy girl out on a date than a really loud one
perdiedumpling
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by Becky_B:
“Admittedly something seemed wrong this week, but i think there has been character in her other dances, she's just not as effusive or hammy as some.

It's like people don't even see subtlety anymore.

In the past i have found her a little cold, a little 'too cool for school' but i've warmed to her since Strictly started.”

Look at Flavia. Not as effusive or hammy as some, but really emoted nonetheless. It's possible to convey emotion without eating the scenery, and unfortunately Sophie's face conveys is either "whoops" or embarrassment.

It's a shame, because she's very likeable, is working very hard and has all the attributes that would make a good dancer - fitness, musicality etc. I just wish she could start to get the face working too.
Becky_B
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by perdiedumpling:
“Look at Flavia. Not as effusive or hammy as some, but really emoted nonetheless. It's possible to convey emotion without eating the scenery, and unfortunately Sophie's face conveys is either "whoops" or embarrassment.

It's a shame, because she's very likeable, is working very hard and has all the attributes that would make a good dancer - fitness, musicality etc. I just wish she could start to get the face working too.”

Its hardly fair to compare to a professional dancer.
I'm not denying there was something awry this week.. but not every week... i think its unfair for her to be called a robot.

I don't get it, seriously

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRsan_COiD0

What is wrong here? I can't see anything(beyond an occassional misstep) I see a convincing flapper routine, with lots of content, fun, and with lots of charm and character.

This, and Natalie and Artem's rumba have been my favourites so far this season.
Alli-F
28-10-2013
I think what some are trying to say is that the charleston suited Sophie because she didn't have to "act". She was being herself, enjoying the dance and it showed. When it comes to the other dances, she needs to "act" them and that is obviously making her feel uncomfortable.

Most people agree that her charleston was very good but every other dance hasn't been (foxtrot was ok), especially the Latin side. She has to show that it's fun, rather than acting like a teenager on her first date and finding it all excruciatingly embarrassing.
JohnCurry
28-10-2013
Originally Posted by RobMiles:
“Sophie did say on It Takes Two, that as the movement of the Cha Cha Cha starts on the 2nd beat of the phrase instead of the 1st, it was undoing everything she thought about music, and she kept starting on the wrong beat. So that may account for the obvious counting, and why she didn't dance it that well.

She didn't say it like that, but I had to look at a ballroom dancing website, because I couldn't quite understand.”

It's the rumba timing which confuses people the most because there is a pause with no foot movement on the 1st beat of the bar. The cha-cha timing is comparatively straightforward, as you step on every beat in the bar. If Sophie doesn't understand these things it's because Brendan isn't explaining them properly. Communication is a separate art which many dancers don't have.
Monkseal
28-10-2013
I don't agree that Sophie didn't have to act her Charleston, but I do think it was kind of her "day-job" face. I'm not surprised that Sophie can do haughty froideur glamour any more than I am surprised that Mark can do hammy, Rachel can do smiley or Ashley can do cheeky. I'm sure I'll enjoy Natalie giving bitch-face in her tango but it won't have the same element of joy and surprise of say, when Ramps did wild sexiness or Alesha was serious and tender or even someone like Victoria pulled off being a vamp.

They're fun dances, but part of me always appreciates more a celebrity doing something that you wouldn't expect from them, and I'm sure Sophie will have many more chances to show that with the dances she's got left.
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