Hi all,

I never start threads so am a bit nervous so please forgive if this is discussed elsewhere ...

I am hoping to write an article for Londondance.com on the evolution of the SCD professional and how it has changed. Back in the days of series 1 and 2 ... and 3, the professionals seemed to have very solid Ballroom and Latin backgrounds, most danced in all of the major competitions and had high (ish) rankings in the world. I'm talking Karen/(Bryan), Brendan/Camilla Matt/Nicole Paul Killick/Hanna Darren/Lilia Anton/Erin

So why now do the BBC used shows such as SYTYCD and BTF as feeding shows for Strictly? The majority of the SCD pro's on this series have never danced in a traditional Ballroom/Latin comp in their lives. Do they just want beautiful people? Do they want to appeal to a young audience? I'd be really interested to know what you think.

*nervously waits for thread to sink or swim*

Thanks!

x x x x x

I think from what I've heard on the grapevine the direction the show has gone in has a lot to do with it - less emphasis on technique and traditional choreography for a start, plus the opinion on the circuit among the pros has changed and people who do it are seen as fame hungry as opposed to wanting to prove themselves among the best.

The competitive schedule doesn't really fit in with Strictly either, with a number of bigger comps around the time of SCD hitting the screens so pro partnerships would struggle to fit in training for those around training their celeb, ITT and filming comedy VTs

possibly because Strictly is seen as an entertainment show with the emphasis on the entertainment, maybe the producers feel that getting dancers from SYTYCD and BTF will appeal to a wider audience...... #notsure lol

it has a lot to do with the direction the show has gone to be honest and the dumbing down of the dancing and it is viewed more as entertainent show than dancing show the judges reflect that.

In saying that Kevin Clifton is from a traditional dancing background before he joined Burn The Floor was competing at the very top levels indeed his sister is current World NO 1 - The Bennetts dannced on SCD and competed and in the beginning of their stint so did the Jordans.

Perhaps cost and/or profile comes into it as well, in the same way it's said some celebs would never do it/be realistic to ask or not want/need to?

I think the Beeb possibly want exclusive commitment to the show which means all the demonstrations, guest lectures, teaching etc that may have been booked months in advance for the top competing couples would have to go during the show period. That will always be there when Strictly has gone so losing it for a temporary boost may not be what they want.

Because the show is now about making a spectacle of yourself to boost ratings.

I think a lot of pros reaching the end of their competitive careers, would jump at the chance at appearing on Strictly.

Have you seen how much the established pros on the programme want to charge you for one lesson or even a naffin' calander?

But I agree they have to "look good" as well as being able to train contestants.

Thanks all so far - v. interesting.

I#m inclined to think the reason some of the pro's who are on the show at the moment who HAVE competed in the past ie the Jordans, Brendan, Anton are there for the money. I mean, SCD gives you a "float" for the year, all you have to do for the reast of the year is teach a few lessons, make a calendar, maybe do a theatre tour and you're sorted! James Jordan has admitted he thinks the show can be a load of pap at times (an off the record conversation) but he sticks with it ... I wonder why.

To be fair, aren't the pros you've mentioned a little older now and perhaps looking for longer term security - a dancer's competitive life is not that long, is it? It must be very tempting, especially as Strictly can lead to other opportunities in the media. They all have to eat, don't they?

Too true. Call it their pension fund. Think of what footballers get paid - often using the excuse of their short career expectancy! Similarly dancers' careers are presumably often shorter than others, and they are doubtless a lot less well paid, despite equally giving pleasure to many.

The ones who have decided not to continue probably have the best answers. Lilia, Flavia, Vincent, Matthew, Erin.

They used to be able to make the most of their skills and experience and were doing what they knew and loved. They were the more skilled at what they did.

When the show changed so it didn't matter so much whether you actually danced the requested dance or danced it well, their skills were not so valued.

There can be any number of reasons.

Personally I think the BBC a few series ago decided that some of the professionals were getting more well known than some of the "C-Listers" on the show and that would never do. So some had to go, like Lilia and Darren.

Since the steady improvement in the ratings and now that the show regularly beats X-Factor, there's been a change of mind/change of producer and people like Ola and James are likely considered a definite asset. Other dancers are probably changed just to "freshen up things."

Re-making money: I think that amateur dancers struggle to make money. They are the ones who compete in ballroom competitions. Turning professional is a better guarantee of income but means the dancer/s no longer compete. My sense is that the more a dancer has competed the more they bring to the table later when they are a professional dancer/choreographer.

Just for the uninitiated, which pros have never competed in a ballroom/latin competition in their lives for it be to a majority? Obviously I know Janette hasn't, but who else? Robin?

I'm all for Burn The Floor/ SYTYCD recruits, if only for the wacky choreography they bring with them.

Whichever lucky creature gets partnered with Robin next year can look forward to three months of learning to dance with a succession of items from the IKEA clearance sale.

I'm sorry but this really isn't true. There are competitions for both amateurs and professionals. British amateur dancers are not allowed to teach dance to make money so many will have ordinary day jobs to pay the bills (though there did use to be a scheme exist by which amateurs could coach but couldn't earn the money from it). Once you turn professional you can compete in professional level competitions in the UK and worldwide. You can also make money by teaching students, doing demonstrations at events etc. The top professional teachers are often still competing/former competitive professionals. You can of course just become a professional by taking the teaching exams and then set up a dance school but not compete.

Back on the initial topic, I suspect it has more to do with the way the show has evolved. Compared to when SCD started we now have an extra 4 dance styles outside of the traditional 10 dancesport dances. Whilst most of the pros have probably seen/come across salsa, American Smooth and Argentine tango, even if they haven't actively learnt or danced it to high level, the true dancesport pros are less likely to have danced a charleston. Employing pros who are cross trained through theatre school or programmes such as SYTYCD means they are more able to adapt to other forms of dance (and are not going to complain as strongly if some unexpected dance style appears). Plus the routines are going to be more "entertainment" than pure comp choreography from cross trained and show dancers, which seems to be the route the show has taken.

However I did think that bar Janette most of the current crop of pros have competed. Anton definitely did (but had only just turned pro when SCD started so his results were mostly at the top of amateur level), James and Ola definitely competed, Iveta is a world 10 dance champion, Aljaz definitely competed, Pasha and Anya I do believe did compete but under different names (someone on these forums once referenced their results on dancesport info), I think Artem had competed though maybe only in American comps, Kristina definitely competed with Michael Wentink, Natalie competed as an amateur at the highest level (I think she hadn't long turned pro when she joined SCD), Aliona competed in US competitions. Kevin competed as a junior but I'm not sure if he did as an adult. Though I couldn't find any results for Karen Hauer, there was at one stage a couple Matt Hauer and Karen Gonzalez on dancesport info - certainly a strange coincidence if no connection!

If you are writing an article, you might be better actually speaking to the BBC and the pro dancers current and past to get their views. We are a mixed bunch on here with varying levels of knowledge of the dance world as a whole and our ideas just might not be accurate!

Best suggestion so far. All you will get is guesses not facts. The BBC and the producres of SCD are the people to ask, not us.

The first series was done with John Byrnes as the consultant to the BBC telling them what was and was not acceptable as professionals would not take part if it was intended to be a send up of ballroom dancing. He took part in series one but couldnt give any more time as he had a full time dance school with his partner/wife Jane Lyttelton Byrnes. They were former international latin and 10 dance champions. John also introduced the BBC to the professionals on the early series and also did other consultant work for them over a few years. He wrote the cue cards for Craig to use on the bit of ITT he did where he was commenting on the technical stuff and appearing as if he knew what he was talking about, the bit now done by Ian.

The show has really changed and the dancers they choose are not pro ballroom /Latin dancers so long as they can do the dances the main thing is that they look good. Mostly from Burn the Floor and other staage shows.

I guess they have not kept the likes of Matthew and Ian and Darren and Lilia because they are the old type pros who take the dancing seriously. The only thing which really matters to the BBC is the ratings against the X Factor

.

Really

That's interesting about the first series. The show has certainly changed over the years!

Yes really.!!!!!!
He used to go into the studios on a Tuesday to watch the tapes from practice and write up the comments so that Craig could use them on Wednesday and appear to have technical knowledge.

Cheating little scoundrel

No wonder he has to bang on about "thumbs" if he's no longer having the work done for him!

I guess the BBC wanted Craig to appear credible as a judge so they decided to put him on ITT to review the tapes. Then they needed someone to spend a whole evening watching the tapes for him. That only lasted one series as John had to get cover for his Tuesday dance classes and he also had no recognition for what he did ( that would have given the game away). They did get someone else for the next series ( It might have been Andrew Cuerdon but I cant be sure of that) then they took Craig off the ITT bit.