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Old 03-11-2013, 21:27
vonyoda
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First off, I am not a fan and want him off along with Abby however I think context is important, Mr Barlow would not be sat where he is now if it wasn't for looks, admittedly it was more about the other guys in the group but take that were about to get canned before their last attempt at a single became a success, this wasn't down to great vocals or lyrics but solely because a group of young good looking lads rolled about in jelly wearing nothing but pants so to be critical of Sam staying because of his looks is very hypocritical IMO. Also my wife made a very good point to me when I said that parents need to hide the phones from their teenage kids, who buys records? Teenage kids so they should determine the winner if they are going to spend the money. Just a personal perspective however.
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Old 03-11-2013, 21:51
EdgarK
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I find him mostly forgettable, so he's my least favourite contestant after Abi whom I wish were more forgettable. Then, as a singer I'm not sure he's much weaker than Olly Murs, who's doing pretty well for himself. He does seem to have something of an Olly vibe going on which could keep him safe for a while yet.
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Old 03-11-2013, 22:03
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He seems a nice bloke, just quite a weak singer. Gary was right, put it across a little too harshly, but Gary can't really comment on bad singers... Frankie.
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Old 03-11-2013, 22:08
vonyoda
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I see what u mean regarding Olly but I think the difference there is personality, Olly had it in abundance whereas Sam seems nice but dull as dishwater IMO.
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Old 03-11-2013, 23:00
amanda daisy
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First off, I am not a fan and want him off along with Abby however I think context is important, Mr Barlow would not be sat where he is now if it wasn't for looks, admittedly it was more about the other guys in the group but take that were about to get canned before their last attempt at a single became a success, this wasn't down to great vocals or lyrics but solely because a group of young good looking lads rolled about in jelly wearing nothing but pants so to be critical of Sam staying because of his looks is very hypocritical IMO. Also my wife made a very good point to me when I said that parents need to hide the phones from their teenage kids, who buys records? Teenage kids so they should determine the winner if they are going to spend the money. Just a personal perspective however.
You are certainly joking, right? Gary is where he is because he handed the demo for A Million Love Songs to Nigel Martin Smith, the demo that became years later the classic that is today. The vocals were the same as the ones you hear on the official video. Take That was put together because Gary had the voice and the talent and not the looks. His vocals were not used on Love Is In the Air because they were too good for the song. He won a songwriting competition at about 13 and, at 15, he came 2nd in a talent show, with a song written by himself. Gary has always been defined by talent, unlike Sam. He was a musician before being a singer and he did all the workmen clubs since he was 11. He took the hard road to get where he is. Take That did what they were told to do by their manager to get noticed in an era where there was no X Factor, The Voice, BGT, youtube or other media that would get them instant success. And Gary got no serious recognition until Pray and A Million Love Songs and then Back for Good. Comparing Sam C to Gary is insulting and a bit ignorant.
Gary did not go on a talent show like X Factor to take the place of a better singer. If Take That took advantage of their looks, it was never at the cost of someone else. If anything they used their looks to get the talent across. Sam C has no talent to get across.
Even so, Gary did not blame Sam for staying and he certainly didn't accuse him of staying for his looks, so I don't know where your comment is coming from.
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Old 03-11-2013, 23:02
earldbest
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Maybe he's going after Sam because he sees a wee bit of Robbie in him, and we all know how he really feels about Robbie.
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Old 03-11-2013, 23:13
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Sam is the epitome of nice but dull. I'm sure he's a nice enough guy, but he's just average.
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:59
vonyoda
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You are certainly joking, right? Gary is where he is because he handed the demo for A Million Love Songs to Nigel Martin Smith, the demo that became years later the classic that is today. The vocals were the same as the ones you hear on the official video. Take That was put together because Gary had the voice and the talent and not the looks. His vocals were not used on Love Is In the Air because they were too good for the song. He won a songwriting competition at about 13 and, at 15, he came 2nd in a talent show, with a song written by himself. Gary has always been defined by talent, unlike Sam. He was a musician before being a singer and he did all the workmen clubs since he was 11. He took the hard road to get where he is. Take That did what they were told to do by their manager to get noticed in an era where there was no X Factor, The Voice, BGT, youtube or other media that would get them instant success. And Gary got no serious recognition until Pray and A Million Love Songs and then Back for Good. Comparing Sam C to Gary is insulting and a bit ignorant.
Gary did not go on a talent show like X Factor to take the place of a better singer. If Take That took advantage of their looks, it was never at the cost of someone else. If anything they used their looks to get the talent across. Sam C has no talent to get across.
Even so, Gary did not blame Sam for staying and he certainly didn't accuse him of staying for his looks, so I don't know where your comment is coming from.
Wow, an uber fan, ok, firstly the comment is coming from his statement before the sing off, "viewers need to remember this is a singing contest" ie Sam clearly isn't still there because of his voice.
With regards to Gary's success he didn't get there based on talent alone that's for sure, he did what was necessary to get where he is and some of what was necessary was a lot worse than entering a talent show.
However considering you are clearly a big fan I shan't bang my head against a wall and just agree to disagree although I have never heard of a singers vocals being left off a record because they were too good before. Seems far fetched to me especially bearing in mind on either relight my fire or could it be magic (can't remember) the record label had to use a backing track for the chorus because none of take that could reach the notes.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:01
earldbest
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You are certainly joking, right? Gary is where he is because he handed the demo for A Million Love Songs to Nigel Martin Smith, the demo that became years later the classic that is today. The vocals were the same as the ones you hear on the official video. Take That was put together because Gary had the voice and the talent and not the looks. His vocals were not used on Love Is In the Air because they were too good for the song. He won a songwriting competition at about 13 and, at 15, he came 2nd in a talent show, with a song written by himself. Gary has always been defined by talent, unlike Sam. He was a musician before being a singer and he did all the workmen clubs since he was 11. He took the hard road to get where he is. Take That did what they were told to do by their manager to get noticed in an era where there was no X Factor, The Voice, BGT, youtube or other media that would get them instant success. And Gary got no serious recognition until Pray and A Million Love Songs and then Back for Good. Comparing Sam C to Gary is insulting and a bit ignorant.
Gary did not go on a talent show like X Factor to take the place of a better singer. If Take That took advantage of their looks, it was never at the cost of someone else. If anything they used their looks to get the talent across. Sam C has no talent to get across.
Even so, Gary did not blame Sam for staying and he certainly didn't accuse him of staying for his looks, so I don't know where your comment is coming from.
He was very passive aggressive, though. I'm pretty sure he did that with Robbie, too.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:46
amanda daisy
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Wow, an uber fan, ok, firstly the comment is coming from his statement before the sing off, "viewers need to remember this is a singing contest" ie Sam clearly isn't still there because of his voice.
With regards to Gary's success he didn't get there based on talent alone that's for sure, he did what was necessary to get where he is and some of what was necessary was a lot worse than entering a talent show.
However considering you are clearly a big fan I shan't bang my head against a wall and just agree to disagree although I have never heard of a singers vocals being left off a record because they were too good before. Seems far fetched to me especially bearing in mind on either relight my fire or could it be magic (can't remember) the record label had to use a backing track for the chorus because none of take that could reach the notes.
The fact that I'm a big fan of Gary's doesn't make me stupid or fanatic. If being a fan meant that, then most of the people on this forum shouldn't even try to communicate with each other, because some people on here go beyond the concept of fanatic when it comes to certain XF acts and can't even support their absurd claims. I can assure you I can see Gary's shortcomings and I don't always agree with him. But, in this case, I believe you're unjustly accusing him and insulting him, by comparing his career beginnings to those of Sam's.
The Love Is In The Air Story is well known - there's even a documentary on yt that talks about it- and you can check for yourself how crap the vocals actually used sound. On Could It Be Magic, Gary was never supposed to sing, so I don't know how you know he couldn't reach those notes? I, for one, can't see how a kid who could easily hit a D6, almost effortlessly, couldn't have hit the notes on Could It Be Magic, but ok.
As for Relight, again you're wrong. Gary was not supposed to do lead vocals on that song - because his image was not the most marketable one in the band -; he ended up singing Relight precisely because he gave it a try and everybody was astounded by how well his voice fit the song.
Yes, you're perfectly right. He and Take That were put to do some weird things by their manager to gain a fanbase, but they were doing it on their own risk - I repeat myself, it seems. They never damaged anyone else's chances, like Sam is, by being kept in a singing contest over better singers and entertainers. Another difference is that the boys in Take That didn't have much of a saying in the way they were being managed; Sam, on the other hand, is willingly begging fans on twitter to vote for him, while posting pictures capturing his best "assets". He's the one who is making it more about looks than the voice. And again, I have to repeat myself, Gary had talent, that eventually prevailed over looks; this will never be Sam's story, because he's in a contest where he should be showing the best of what he's capable of. So far, he doesn't seem to be capable of too much. It's not only Gary who put his looks to good use in his career, most of the artists do it. But it wasn't his looks that make him stick for over 20 years in the industry. What do you think will make Sam last? I saw the video he put out before XF and, aside from the awful song, his voice was all autotuned and, even so, it still didn't sound good.
Yes, Gary did make the audience aware of the fact that it's a singing contest, but I don't know how you could infer that he was really saying that Sam is kept in for his looks. It just means that the better singer should not go home. Sam is not the better singer, thus he shouldn't be kept there. Gary has also said that there is no joke act this year - something I disagree with -, which clearly invalidates your interpretation.
In my opinion, Gary was a class gentleman with Sam yesterday, after the vile attacks initiated by Sam's sister towards him on twitter. Considering how little talent this boy has and then have the audacity to launch a kind of twitter campaign against a judge who just gave his opinion, I'd say he got off easy with just the implication that he's the worst singer in the competition.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:57
mrsgrumpy49
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First unless you are American, it's defence with a 'c' not 'defense' with an 's'.
Second Gary's little reminder about it being a singing contest was him suggesting there were people remaining whose singing was below par. Imo that would be Sam C and Abi.
Bur Gary - it's surely also about the x factor! Sadly the latter acts don't even have that saving gace.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:13
vonyoda
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The fact that I'm a big fan of Gary's doesn't make me stupid or fanatic. If being a fan meant that, then most of the people on this forum shouldn't even try to communicate with each other, because some people on here go beyond the concept of fanatic when it comes to certain XF acts and can't even support their absurd claims. I can assure you I can see Gary's shortcomings and I don't always agree with him. But, in this case, I believe you're unjustly accusing him and insulting him, by comparing his career beginnings to those of Sam's.
The Love Is In The Air Story is well known - there's even a documentary on yt that talks about it- and you can check for yourself how crap the vocals actually used sound. On Could It Be Magic, Gary was never supposed to sing, so I don't know how you know he couldn't reach those notes? I, for one, can't see how a kid who could easily hit a D6, almost effortlessly, couldn't have hit the notes on Could It Be Magic, but ok.
As for Relight, again you're wrong. Gary was not supposed to do lead vocals on that song - because his image was not the most marketable one in the band -; he ended up singing Relight precisely because he gave it a try and everybody was astounded by how well his voice fit the song.
Yes, you're perfectly right. He and Take That were put to do some weird things by their manager to gain a fanbase, but they were doing it on their own risk - I repeat myself, it seems. They never damaged anyone else's chances, like Sam is, by being kept in a singing contest over better singers and entertainers. Another difference is that the boys in Take That didn't have much of a saying in the way they were being managed; Sam, on the other hand, is willingly begging fans on twitter to vote for him, while posting pictures capturing his best "assets". He's the one who is making it more about looks than the voice. And again, I have to repeat myself, Gary had talent, that eventually prevailed over looks; this will never be Sam's story, because he's in a contest where he should be showing the best of what he's capable of. So far, he doesn't seem to be capable of too much. It's not only Gary who put his looks to good use in his career, most of the artists do it. But it wasn't his looks that make him stick for over 20 years in the industry. What do you think will make Sam last? I saw the video he put out before XF and, aside from the awful song, his voice was all autotuned and, even so, it still didn't sound good.
Yes, Gary did make the audience aware of the fact that it's a singing contest, but I don't know how you could infer that he was really saying that Sam is kept in for his looks. It just means that the better singer should not go home. Sam is not the better singer, thus he shouldn't be kept there. Gary has also said that there is no joke act this year - something I disagree with -, which clearly invalidates your interpretation.
In my opinion, Gary was a class gentleman with Sam yesterday, after the vile attacks initiated by Sam's sister towards him on twitter. Considering how little talent this boy has and then have the audacity to launch a kind of twitter campaign against a judge who just gave his opinion, I'd say he got off easy with just the implication that he's the worst singer in the competition.
Not to appear disrespectful but I genuinely don't have time to read whole thing but rest assured I am certainly not calling you stupid in any way and apologise if that's how you interpreted it. Will read properly later.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:53
vonyoda
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Right, read it all now. First off I feel the need to reiterate I do not like Sam, he needs to go as far as I'm concerned. He is clearly in the show still because of how he looks as his vocals are limited. My point being that Gary may have been the worlds greatest ever singer but he would not have made it on his own, he needed the group for sex appeal, they basically whored themselves out to the gay/school girls market so it's not ridiculous to think he would have entered such a competition as XF had it been around.
The song I mentioned before was could it be magic and if you watch on YouTube, the truth about take that part 2 at around the 6 minute mark they talk about the chorus being faked.
Believe it or not I am not anti Gary, I admire what the guy has achieved, the point I am trying to make (maybe not very well) is that if anyone on the panel should understand that pop music is not about vocals alone but appearances too then it should be him.
I can't comment on off screen behaviour as I am ignorant about it and only watch the show.
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:07
rsefitpro07
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Sam C is the typical X Factor contestant that will hang on and stay in the competition for a fair few weeks!

We all know he can't sing, and we also know he is in for his looks. Some people probably have sympathy with him when he gets criticised by Gary Barlow every week.

However his time in the competition will run out, especially when it gets to the business end of the show. He wont stand a chance when hes up against the likes of Sam B,Nicholas,Luke and Rough Copy!
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:24
amanda daisy
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Right, read it all now. First off I feel the need to reiterate I do not like Sam, he needs to go as far as I'm concerned. He is clearly in the show still because of how he looks as his vocals are limited. My point being that Gary may have been the worlds greatest ever singer but he would not have made it on his own, he needed the group for sex appeal, they basically whored themselves out to the gay/school girls market so it's not ridiculous to think he would have entered such a competition as XF had it been around.
The song I mentioned before was could it be magic and if you watch on YouTube, the truth about take that part 2 at around the 6 minute mark they talk about the chorus being faked.
Believe it or not I am not anti Gary, I admire what the guy has achieved, the point I am trying to make (maybe not very well) is that if anyone on the panel should understand that pop music is not about vocals alone but appearances too then it should be him.
I can't comment on off screen behaviour as I am ignorant about it and only watch the show.
I understand what you're saying and I did agree with you on certain aspects. It's true they did certain things that were not exactly "orthodox" to get the public's attention. As a fan, I'm not particularly fond of that stage in their career and I'm a bit embarrassed watching videos of those performances, but those were different times and maybe they wouldn't be where they are today, hadn't they listened to their crazy manager.
I know the documentary you're talking about. It's biased and full of lies - the part about Could It Be Magic including (not that I care too much because that part basically discredits Robbie, not Gary) - and none of the boys ever approved of it. It was done long before the TT reunion and it was aimed to get some sympathy for Robbie's behaviour.
I can see the parallel you're making and, to a certain extent, you're right, but, as you said yourself, Sam isn't good and doesn't have with what to support his claim to fame. I'd have no problem with him making the most of his looks and the X Factor if there was a shred of talent within him.
I think your point would be more justified had it been Robbie instead of Gary on that panel At Take That's concerts, all the other boys' fans had banners praising their physical assets, only Gary had banners saying: "I love your voice/music". Sad, but true and it shows that he didn't build his own fanbase based on his looks.
What you're saying is one of the points Sam's sister certainly made in the diatribe she sent Gary yesterday and it seems to be Sam's ambition too: to succeed despite not having a good voice, just based on good looks and what he believes is "charisma".
Honestly, I don't think Gary will ever be the type of person to approve of a singer succeeding without having a good or at least decent voice. He certainly understands it - because of the history with Robbie - but he'll never agree with it, in my opinion, and that's why he doesn't cut Sam any slack.
You can read for yourself what Sam's sister said to Gary and then judge if he has any right to be harsh on Sam. Sam made his sister's views his own the moment he retweeted her:
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rqvsfb
And you can also see here that Sam is really doing everything he can to get noticed for the right reasons:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBaD5UQEZzQ


Sorry for the long reply again It wasn't my intention to write so much.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:11
scratchy23
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I agree that it is more than just a singing contest, and I think Sam defended himself very well and very graciously on Saturday night.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:16
Sun Tzu.
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I don't think bringing up Frankie Cocozza is fair on Gary because Frankie was Gary act. But Frankie was a character and was great for the show.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:27
David_Morgan
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Sam is rubbish. Take That - by every measure I care about - are also rubbish. So, what's the point here?
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:31
earldbest
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I don't think bringing up Frankie Cocozza is fair on Gary because Frankie was Gary act. But Frankie was a character and was great for the show.
I never thought I would see this on DS.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:33
David_Morgan
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I don't think bringing up Frankie Cocozza is fair on Gary because Frankie was Gary act. But Frankie was a character and was great for the show.
If we beleive the basic premise, Gary chose Frankie Cockozza and so only had himself to blame. As for FC being a "character", I found him to be a tedious, boorish poseur and I know I was not alone in that. Sam C is far more personable and while he doesn't desrve to be on the live shows, he certainly doesn't desrve to attract excessive opprobrium.
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Old 04-11-2013, 13:21
StageDive
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You can read for yourself what Sam's sister said to Gary and then judge if he has any right to be harsh on Sam. Sam made his sister's views his own the moment he retweeted her:
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rqvsfb
And you can also see here that Sam is really doing everything he can to get noticed for the right reasons:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBaD5UQEZzQ
Are you kidding???

Firstly, well done for posting Sam's skinny dip video, which he did for Teenage Cancer Trust. Here's a video of 400 people skinny dipping for charity, shall we hate on them too?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xISl4tSHKCQ
And do you also want to post the other how-ever-many things he did for charity in the same month?

Secondly, I don't actually see anything terrible in what Sam's sister posted. Do you have brothers and sisters? Or someone you love unconditionally? They are the words of a protective big sister who is clearly hurting for her brother. You are clearly a Gary fan and get riled by bad things being said about him. Now multiply that ten fold and imagine how you'd feel when someone hates on your family.

I have a younger brother and a younger sister and if anybody was as saying things to either of them I too would be jumping to their defence. If his own sister cant defend him, who can? and christ, she hardly said anything worse than they things people say on here about contestants and other celebrities. In fact, I think she was very eloquent, measured yet ballsy in her response. Are you saying you wouldn't jump to your somone you loves defence if they were going through this? It must be so hard, as the relatives of someone getting Gary isn't a God, he isn't above critihe is just a celebrity and it doesnt matter how famous or successful you are, a bit of tact costs nothing and I think that's what Gary lost the other night.

Thirdly what is all this rubbish about Sam coming across arrogant and cocky? I really feel like some people are watching a different show to me sometimes? In the 'real world' all I hear is people saying how well he comes across and how professionally he is acting. He has behaved so well as far as I can see. He never bites back or sulks or cries, unlike some of the others. He just goes 'ok thank you.' and goes off and works harder the next week.

He was given a place on that show. The producers or whoever decided that he should be there. That isn't his fault. All he can do is go out there and perform every week. And lets face it the poor boy looked like a frightened rabbit having singing that song to Gary on Saturday, so do we really think he chose it??

Sorry this is a bit off topic and really long.
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Old 04-11-2013, 13:30
Sun Tzu.
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If we beleive the basic premise, Gary chose Frankie Cockozza and so only had himself to blame. As for FC being a "character", I found him to be a tedious, boorish poseur and I know I was not alone in that. Sam C is far more personable and while he doesn't desrve to be on the live shows, he certainly doesn't desrve to attract excessive opprobrium.
Frankie was great, a much bigger personality than all of the acts on this series. He created headlines for the show and was a memorable contestant.

That is the problem with this series, only Sam Callahan seems to be creating any sort of controversy and getting into the headlines. The rest are boring and bring nothing to the show entertainment wise.
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Old 04-11-2013, 13:32
StageDive
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That is the problem with this series, only Sam Callahan seems to be creating any sort of controversy and getting into the headlines. The rest are boring and bring nothing to the show entertainment wise.
And XFactor are milking that. The Tamera story, all the abs shots... they will be loving the amount of press attention they are getting because of Sam. Good or bad they won't care.
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Old 04-11-2013, 13:32
Sun Tzu.
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Sam hasn't come across as cocky or arrogant at all. Perhaps he should and play up to it and get more people hating him. That is what I would do. Try and get into the papers, go out and get pissed while they film you, just like Frankie did.

Do NOT go out on a whimper like Kingsland Road.
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Old 04-11-2013, 14:07
Daewos
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Honestly, I don't think Gary will ever be the type of person to approve of a singer succeeding without having a good or at least decent voice.
Two words - Frankie Cocozza. Sort of undermines your argument there. Mr Barlow was happy enough to try and defend his performances at the time. (He did backtrack at times later at times but the damage to his credibility was done) And no matter how bad Sam is he is better than Frankie ever was.

As for his sister - good on her for sticking up for her little brother. If that has been me I would not have been so polite
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