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Argentine Tango? Brendan looked like he was transferring a mannequin to a chair
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KnowAll27
09-11-2013
It was okay.

I agree with the posters who have said it was, for want of a better phrase, a bit of a stop/start routine. There were a few times when Sophie did a few steps, and then basically stood motionless while Brendan twirled around here then she did a few more steps. In hold she was good; out of hold she was mannequin-esque.

Mark, Rachel and Kara have, for me, the gold standard Argentine Tangos in Strictly. This didn't come close.
chrishartxx
09-11-2013
Originally Posted by bornfree:
“Well I don't know whether it is the nerves with Sophie, or she is just naturally so laid back that she lets Brendon do all the work. I really don't know what to make of her.”

She looks lethargic. I wonder if she's a vegetarian.
fruitloop27
09-11-2013
Kara & Artem's AT a couple of years ago was sensual, classy, fluid & had a lot of fancy footwork going on. Brendan & Sophie's one was dry, there were too many lifts & it was flat & passionless.
missfrankiecat
09-11-2013
Originally Posted by chrishartxx:
“She looks lethargic. I wonder if she's a vegetarian.”

Lol - best post of the night!
Paace
09-11-2013
Originally Posted by chrishartxx:
“She looks lethargic. I wonder if she's a vegetarian.”


Should be the other way round . I thought you're supposed to have more energy .
EnJayKing
09-11-2013
Poor Sophie, that Charleston has become something of a curse. Every dance since then hasn't suited her at all and they all look worse in comparison to the Charleston. Not that I thought the AT was poor or anything, just lacking something.
DiamondBetty
10-11-2013
Sophie is gorgeous and has beautiful legs and looked truly wonderful when holding a pose.

I think the problem is in her frame and connection.

In my area of dance, the word 'frame' is out of fashion, because it suggests rigidity. Connection (in a physical sense, not in a sexual tension sense) in lead/follow dances is a responsive action, when the lead 'asks' for tension, the follow responds - when the request for resistance isn't being given, the connection should be relaxed. If you think of the relaxed 'neutral' connection as being blue, and the rigid, totally 'engaged' connection as being red, then I believe Sophie goes from a very floppy pale blue to a very stiff intense dark red without ever going through lilac or purple. This is why she looks floppy yet also has that mannequin stiffness thing, two ends of a spectrum.

Going from one extreme to the other would make it very hard for her to relax and follow Brendan - she must be constantly anticipating his next move with her brain, rather than responding to his lead with her body. This is likely exhausting so no wonder she looks burnt out and is unable to relax enough to characterise and emote.

Interestingly though, it's super dark red tension that makes her look so great in a lift - remember the poker-straight-held-aloft-vertical lift from the launch dance?

I know very little about ballroom technique but I imagine that the classic ballroom holds are rather 'red' and that Latin is more 'purple', which explains why SEB is more suited to ballroom. Interested in the opinions of those that do all kinds of dancing, if anyone's about?
fiagomez
10-11-2013
i thought the choreography was stunning and she looked beautiful but her score was fair as in my opinion i'm getting tired of her "too cool for school" persona.
Poppysinbloom
10-11-2013
I didn't like this AT at all and she was lucky to get 32. It was a poor routine centred around posing and lifts. There was no sensuality and for me there was very little sense of connection between her and Brendan. Brendan needs to learn when to shut his mouth and improve his posture - I noticed his hanging basket bum at least once during the dance and it was not nice.
slappers r us
10-11-2013
It didnt blow me away

all poses with Brendan doing all the work

no passion, no strength, no emotion it was just nothing
Muggsy
10-11-2013
Originally Posted by Poppysinbloom:
“I didn't like this AT at all and she was lucky to get 32. It was a poor routine centred around posing and lifts. There was no sensuality and for me there was very little sense of connection between her and Brendan. Brendan needs to learn when to shut his mouth and improve his posture - I noticed his hanging basket bum at least once during the dance and it was not nice.”

Only once?
darnelle
10-11-2013
too many lifts not enough feet and where was the tango walk? it was an impression of an AT but not an AT - poor sophie has no sense of rhythm - i dont think she can go any further ,she has done her best and she deserves respect for trying
summertime09
10-11-2013
Originally Posted by boab34:
“I thought Sophie's 'Argentine tango' was way overmarked

Brendan was mostly carrying her around and moving her from and to the chair

Where's the fancy footwork that Vincent and Rachel S did in their AT?”

THANKS!!! Thought it was just me, I wanted to be blown away by their routine but I found it quite disjointed in places.
belmontbabe
10-11-2013
Maybe she doesn't want to connect with him
belmontbabe
10-11-2013
Maybe she doesn't want to connect with him
Tommo781
10-11-2013
Originally Posted by summertime09:
“THANKS!!! Thought it was just me, I wanted to be blown away by their routine but I found it quite disjointed in places.”

No it wasn't just you. See the comments on the other thread on the subject http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1908189
SaraV1308
10-11-2013
Originally Posted by primer:
“I thought this was a creditable attempt from Sophie, and loads better than her recent efforts. The slightly cool styling worked ok with the dance I felt, a bit of disdain is ok by me in the AT.”

Originally Posted by StrictlyRed:
“I was really looking forward to seeing the first AT of the series, and I thought they might do a great job, but I ended up feeling really disappointed.

Overmarked too, in my opinion.”

Originally Posted by slappers r us:
“It didnt blow me away

all poses with Brendan doing all the work

no passion, no strength, no emotion it was just nothing”

Just a summary of the comments I agreed with re this dance.

Argentine Tango is supposed to be smouldering and HOT. This was just cool to tepid. It was like if you touched the touch paper it wasn't even hot enough to start a fire.

There was too much lifting of Sophie into position but the bones of most of the choreography was sort of ok in most part just absolutely no emotional connection with each other or the music. If Vincent and Flavia had done that same routine (same steps and lifts etc) Im sure they would have been able to inject enough connection and emotion in it to be smouldering.

Interestingly enough after watching SCD and Sophie last night I watched Vincent and Flavia dancing very simple AT choreography on QVC and they managed to make it sexy and romantic without even really trying.

I just think that Sophie has a huge problem expressing ANY emotion in her dancing - it's all been very wooden and expressionless - even worse than Louis last year and many others who have gone before. The only reason her Charleston was ok was because it was a cool for school/rag doll Charleston and it suited her personna and her personality. Also she desperately needs to get more colour on her skin (and have a fake tan). She just looks soooo pale and pasty under the lights and this just makes the effect worse.

I really can't remember much about any of her routines other than the bland beige expressions and her body being shop mannequin like (and at this stage in the competition this is dangerous).
ESPIONdansant
10-11-2013
You know the 'vegetarian' comment above?

It's as if she has no fire in her belly. There's certainly no dynamism. Painting by numbers.

The thread title really does express it very well. Brendan places her in positions. She's not very good at dancing as if it's of her own volition.

Basically she doesn't look as though she likes it. She's not in the moment. Hell, where is she?
pinkwafer
10-11-2013
I think she worries about what her husband will think of her getting close and passionate with Brendan. I think this is what holds her back. She doesn't relax into his body to make the movements flow. She holds herself too stiffly. I think it's beginning to annoy Brendan a bit as well.
glasshalffull
10-11-2013
Open a tin of corned beef...it's been closer to Argentina than that dance was.
Tommo781
10-11-2013
Originally Posted by glasshalffull:
“Open a tin of corned beef...it's been closer to Argentina than that dance was.”

fefster
10-11-2013
Ha ha this OP made me laugh. It was somewhat reminiscent of the film Mannequin where Kim Cattrall kept freezing into a shop dummy.
alexandree
10-11-2013
She always looks like she can't be bothered with any of the dances including the AT, if she could inject a little enthusiasm into her performances I think she would dance a lot better than she is doing, It appears that Brendan either flings her or drags her around
An Thropologist
10-11-2013
Originally Posted by DiamondBetty:
“Sophie is gorgeous and has beautiful legs and looked truly wonderful when holding a pose.

I think the problem is in her frame and connection.

In my area of dance, the word 'frame' is out of fashion, because it suggests rigidity. Connection (in a physical sense, not in a sexual tension sense) in lead/follow dances is a responsive action, when the lead 'asks' for tension, the follow responds - when the request for resistance isn't being given, the connection should be relaxed. If you think of the relaxed 'neutral' connection as being blue, and the rigid, totally 'engaged' connection as being red, then I believe Sophie goes from a very floppy pale blue to a very stiff intense dark red without ever going through lilac or purple. This is why she looks floppy yet also has that mannequin stiffness thing, two ends of a spectrum.

Going from one extreme to the other would make it very hard for her to relax and follow Brendan - she must be constantly anticipating his next move with her brain, rather than responding to his lead with her body. This is likely exhausting so no wonder she looks burnt out and is unable to relax enough to characterise and emote.

Interestingly though, it's super dark red tension that makes her look so great in a lift - remember the poker-straight-held-aloft-vertical lift from the launch dance?

I know very little about ballroom technique but I imagine that the classic ballroom holds are rather 'red' and that Latin is more 'purple', which explains why SEB is more suited to ballroom. Interested in the opinions of those that do all kinds of dancing, if anyone's about?”

I would agree with your comments Betty. Especially those concerning connection. I am also going to pinch your colour coding analogy - I think it will be an excellent way of describing a feeling to the more visual learners. Thank you.

Connection is an excellent word that encompasses both the physical connection of the frame that allows communication between the couple to occur and also the rapport that put the sizzle into the dynamic (more than just an overlay of acting or wearing a "tango/rumba/paso - face")

However in AT the frame does need to be solid (probably in other BR dances too). It doesn't want to be stiff but it should have a rigidity. Its more than just adopting a style but more the physics, so to speak, that enables the dance to work. The posture is also important in this way. The walk too is important and the rest - decorations and illusions - follow from /are enabled by these three elements.

The couple's upper bodies should be slightly inclined so they form a letter A shape. Their upper body positions should mirror one another so the lady keeps her torso square onto the man pretty well all the time. Their arms should be solid, not rigid exactly but with no obvious flexing and stretching. (Think of making a telephone from string and cans - if the string isn't tight the signal can't get through) The upper part of the dancers should be as if welded in plaster of Paris. The upper body is solid and the lower body loose, free, relaxed.

The lower body should be further apart than the upper body. The walk is I think the most important visual detail to get right. The steps should comprise of three parts. The step is initiated in the lead’s upper body, (called the intent or invitation) if the upper body is a solid fixed frame the point of least resistance is the follower’s free leg. The frame (The man's torso as a complete unit) is what moves first. Once her leg is in motion the man starts to move too. He is therefore moving momentarily behind her.

The follower pushes her foot out behind her (or to the side or sometimes in front) keeping it as close to the ground as possible and transfers her weight onto it as the very last element of the step. The lady puts her weight onto the ball of her foot first and some sources say the inner ball of the foot is the best technique for a beautiful step. A fraction of a second later the man also pushes his unweighted foot in the direction of travel and transfers his weight onto it at the last minute.

Between the initiation and final weight change there is something called the brush point where the dancers ‘collect’. I feel this is the really distinctive visual feature of AT it also helps manage the timing of the couple. Imagine you have little magnets in your ankle bones, as one foot passes your other foot the magnets try to pull together so there is a fraction of a hesitation as the ankles brush past one another. It’s not a pause and you certainly don’t stop but more like a little quiver as you overcome the resistance of the imaginary magnetic force. I saw none of this footwork in Sophie and Brendan’s walks last night.

I would have also liked to have seen a little walking in cross system. Mostly in dance the man steps on his right as the lady steps on her left (assuming they are face to face). In AT both partners can walk on their right (or left) when in front facing hold. Aficionados tell me this is unique to AT but I don’t know that to be the case. But it is this that allows for many of the more decorative steps that distinguish AT. Sacadas or displacements are a characteristic movement in which the man ‘asks’ the lady to move her foot a split second before he occupies the space her foot left with his foot. This gives the impression of him having kicked her foot out of the way

Most of the stuff most people recognise as being AT is done in the lower body. The upper body remains fairly fixed and the lower moves about. In the ocho (swivel) for example the upper body continues to face the direction of travel (line of dance). The foot then moves at an angle to the lower body and as the ankles meet up the dancer pivots on one foot and changes weight. The lower body is facing a different direction to the upper.

The kicks are frequently ganchos or enganches or sometimes an embellishment. But you really can’t just walk around a dance floor using an ordinary gait and flick up a leg here and there, no matter how well timed to the music, and expect the outcome to look like an AT. In my opinion the only way to make a dance look like AT is to remain faithful to the physics that enable AT.

Quite apart from the lack of emotional intensity my impression of B and S yesterday was that they faked it too much and for this reason I thought their marks were fair to generous. It was an enjoyable dance but was not a good example of AT.

For me the basics have to be there to get an authentic appearance. (I suspect much the same applies in other disciplines).
boab34
10-11-2013
Originally Posted by fefster:
“Ha ha this OP made me laugh. It was somewhat reminiscent of the film Mannequin where Kim Cattrall kept freezing into a shop dummy.”

that was exactly what I was thinking of when Brendan was carrying Sophie around
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