O2 concerned that people think 4G is impacting 3G coverage

Everything Goes · 15-11-2013, 05:22

O2 CEO Ronan Dunne is concerned that customers think their 3G coverage is being neglected due to the 4G rollout.

He said: ‘There’s a genuine danger among customers that they might think the conversation is all around 4G and the industry doesn’t care about them.’

O2's 3G customers have been neglected for 10 years. This is nothing new

http://www.mobiletoday.co.uk/News/27292/4G_rollout_is_not_damaging_3G_signals_O2s_Dunne.aspx

Joel's dad · 15-11-2013, 05:41

When I first had O2 back in 2009 it was great. Then it just died a slow death. So I agree with you lol

Mark in Essex · 15-11-2013, 07:34

Can't say about O2 but 4G is definitely effecting Vodafone with slow DATA rates (even when phone shows its got H or even H+) and we are talking less than 150kbps!

Also dropped calls and calls being unable to connect!

I use to think Vodafone and O2 were the best and shame that when I tried the others I got no signal at all at home or some of the places I go for work.

Thine Wonk · 15-11-2013, 07:41

Sorry but if O2 really cared about 3G data speeds and coverage they would have matched their competitors speeds and coverage earlier by upgrading to dual carrier and having 98% coverage like MBNL.

Crocodile concern (that's like crocodile tears, I just made it up)

sethpet · 15-11-2013, 08:11

Is it not impossible for 4G to be impacting already established 3G

Different bandwidth
Different infrastructure
Different use of the signal, 4G is back to TDM right?

paulker · 15-11-2013, 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark in Essex

Can't say about O2 but 4G is definitely effecting Vodafone with slow DATA rates (even when phone shows its got H or even H+) and we are talking less than 150kbps!

Also dropped calls and calls being unable to connect!

I use to think Vodafone and O2 were the best and shame that when I tried the others I got no signal at all at home or some of the places I go for work.

I'm in Glasgow and transferred from EE4g to Vodafone. I have found Vodafone to be pretty good with only an odd dropped call. Speeds on 3g are good too. I found EE to be dropping a huge number of calls in my area. This is why I changed.

planetf1 · 15-11-2013, 09:18

Frequently very slow data rates (right down to unusable)
Dropped data connections
Dropped calls

in multiple cities/locations in the south

... led me to leave and move to three.

Like night and day ... not a single known dropped call/data session (except due to lack of coverage)

danielmeah · 15-11-2013, 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulker

I'm in Glasgow and transferred from EE4g to Vodafone. I have found Vodafone to be pretty good with only an odd dropped call. Speeds on 3g are good too. I found EE to be dropping a huge number of calls in my area. This is why I changed.

Vodafone are capping 3g to 10Mbps. always seem to get dead on 10Mbps here.

ee is just garbage!

heskethbang · 15-11-2013, 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielmeah

Vodafone are capping 3g to 10Mbps. always seem to get dead on 10Mbps here.

ee is just garbage!

Wow I never got anywhere near that on Vodafone.

xreyuk123 · 15-11-2013, 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielmeah

Vodafone are capping 3g to 10Mbps. always seem to get dead on 10Mbps here.

ee is just garbage!

Quote:

Originally Posted by heskethbang

Wow I never got anywhere near that on Vodafone.

Vodafone do run DC-HSDPA in large cities. I get 10Mbps in Manchester, but Daniel is right, it seems to be capped to 10Mbps.

As for Birmingham, you should get 10Mbps in the city centre.

heskethbang · 15-11-2013, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by xreyuk123

Vodafone do run DC-HSDPA in large cities. I get 10Mbps in Manchester, but Daniel is right, it seems to be capped to 10Mbps.

As for Birmingham, you should get 10Mbps in the city centre.

You're kidding? One of the reasons I left Vodafone was because, standing outside Boots on the High Street (City Centre), the best I could get was a full but unusable EDGE signal.

And don't get me started on their service in B14, which deteriorated over a period of 9-12 months.

danielmeah · 15-11-2013, 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by xreyuk123

Vodafone do run DC-HSDPA in large cities. I get 10Mbps in Manchester, but Daniel is right, it seems to be capped to 10Mbps.

As for Birmingham, you should get 10Mbps in the city centre.

Voip too

and the 4G red thing is nonsense. i have that plan and its capped

https://www.vodafone.co.uk/cs/groups...ftst073789.pdf

GeordiePaul · 15-11-2013, 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark in Essex

Can't say about O2 but 4G is definitely effecting Vodafone with slow DATA rates (even when phone shows its got H or even H+) and we are talking less than 150kbps!

Also dropped calls and calls being unable to connect!

I use to think Vodafone and O2 were the best and shame that when I tried the others I got no signal at all at home or some of the places I go for work.

Vodafone were like that for me about 3 years ago. Utter crap.

japaul · 15-11-2013, 14:50

3G shouldn't be capped if you are on a 4G (not just Red) plan so you should report it. I had a few months of the 10Mbps cap after it was introduced but have seen >20 Mbps on 3G since getting a 4G plan.

dragonrapide · 15-11-2013, 15:00

No signal on the seafront in Brighton, if anyone from 02 is reading this it is near West Street, that's how much they care about their customers. We are not even getting 4g here for ages, if at all, so it is just down to crappy service for us. There seem to be plenty of transmitters or whatever they are called, presume they are broken even though web site says good service. Parts of West Sussex also have dreadful, if any, reception. Yes, I have reported it to 02.

qasdfdsaq · 15-11-2013, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joel's dad

When I first had O2 back in 2009 it was great. Then it just died a slow death. So I agree with you lol

I actually find the rollout of 3G900 since 2009/2010 has made quite a big improvement, rather the opposite of dying any kind of death.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark in Essex

Can't say about O2 but 4G is definitely effecting Vodafone with slow DATA rates (even when phone shows its got H or even H+) and we are talking less than 150kbps!

Also dropped calls and calls being unable to connect!

Love it when people draw completely absurd and extraneous conclusions based on no objective evidence whatsoever.

Every network had slow data rates and dropped calls since before 4G was even invented.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

Sorry but if O2 really cared about 3G data speeds and coverage they would have matched their competitors speeds and coverage earlier by upgrading to dual carrier and having 98% coverage like MBNL.

Crocodile concern (that's like crocodile tears, I just made it up)

Well, there is the drawback that they didn't have 3 networks' worth of money and resources to throw at it, evidenced by the fact no other network in the same situation did any better (Orange pre-EE, Vodafone today).

Quote:

Originally Posted by sethpet

Is it not impossible for 4G to be impacting already established 3G

Different bandwidth
Different infrastructure
Different use of the signal, 4G is back to TDM right?

No.

On EE 4G uses the same frequency band.
On most/all networks it uses the same infrastructure - backhaul and parts of core at least.
4G is not TDM. Nobody uses TDM 4G in the UK at the moment. One network has the capability to do so but are suggesting that they won't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by planetf1

Frequently very slow data rates (right down to unusable)
Dropped data connections
Dropped calls

in multiple cities/locations in the south

... led me to leave and move to three.

Like night and day ... not a single known dropped call/data session (except due to lack of coverage)

Personal anecdotes are anecdotal.

Frequently very slow data rates (right down to unusable)
Dropped data connections
Dropped calls

in multiple cities/locations in the south

... as soon as I moved to three.

Like night and day ... not a single known dropped call/data session (except due to lack of coverage) on my O2 phone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielmeah

Vodafone are capping 3g to 10Mbps. always seem to get dead on 10Mbps here.

ee is just garbage!

Really? That must be new.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xreyuk123

Vodafone do run DC-HSDPA in large cities. I get 10Mbps in Manchester, but Daniel is right, it seems to be capped to 10Mbps.

As for Birmingham, you should get 10Mbps in the city centre.

Curious. Cap must have come in recently - I've got over 12Mbps a few times on Vodafone before DC-HSDPA was even available.

jabbamk1 · 15-11-2013, 15:29

Vodafone are capping all customers on non 4G Ready/Red plans to 10Mbps

qasdfdsaq · 15-11-2013, 16:03

Like I said, must be new - last year or two at most?

Incidentally that document also says upload speeds on non-4G plans are capped to 8Mbps - because you're likely to ever achieve that on a network with maximum physical upload capability of 5.76Mbps...

Mark in Essex · 15-11-2013, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by sethpet

Is it not impossible for 4G to be impacting already established 3G

Different bandwidth
Different infrastructure
Different use of the signal, 4G is back to TDM right?

I'm convinced it is as have been with Vodafone on and off for 10+ years and never had many problems with calls until 4G was launched (also the data speed with 3G as well - always use to be at least 3meg download but has never got above 150kbps since 4G was around in Harlow Town centre).

qasdfdsaq · 15-11-2013, 16:24

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correla...mply_causation

Mark in Essex · 15-11-2013, 16:29

At qasdfdsac - please see my above post.

I've never had it before where more than every 3rd call does not connect (both on my phone and also my works phone that are both on Vodafone) and also the same for calls dropping out a LOT more often.

It's never been half this bad as I've only ever had it with less than say 1 in 20 calls not connecting in the past.

Also what else would you put the constant slow data speeds down to in 1 area when it was exactly the same time they switched on the 4G it started happening?

It might not be directly related to the 4G frequency but they have done something since it's launch as like I say it's dropped from constantly getting 3meg+ download to never above 150kbps since the switch on.

qasdfdsaq · 15-11-2013, 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correla...mply_causation

.....

Do you even know the exact time they "switched on the 4G"? Hint: It was nowhere near the time when you think it happened.

jabbamk1 · 15-11-2013, 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

.....

Yo bro. This is a forum for healthy discussion. Not for someone to claim one opinion is better than all other opinions.

But I do agree, it is unlikely that switching on 4G had anything to do with the dropped calls. Its probably another issue.

qasdfdsaq · 15-11-2013, 16:36

Just pointing out some basic logic principles. Correlation != causation isn't opinion.

Not denying whether there was an effect or what the effect may have been. Simply put, you have to come up with more than "I think it happened around the same time" to establish a causal link. Particularly if we want to establish why it's happening and what to do about it.

Science and technology develops on the basis of verifying repeatable phenomena under controlled conditions and building an understanding of the underlying processes based on that, or using the former to verify the latter. "I think it happened around the same time" is neither.

Mark in Essex · 15-11-2013, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

.....

Do you even know the exact time they "switched on the 4G"? Hint: It was nowhere near the time when you think it happened.

I know a rough time though and seeing that I have been using Vodafone for well over 10 years it's a bit strange it happened around this time up until now.

Even if it was switched on earlier all the public were not using it.

15-11-2013, 05:22	#1
Everything Goes Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the future.... Posts: 11,259	O2 concerned that people think 4G is impacting 3G coverage O2 CEO Ronan Dunne is concerned that customers think their 3G coverage is being neglected due to the 4G rollout. He said: ‘There’s a genuine danger among customers that they might think the conversation is all around 4G and the industry doesn’t care about them.’ O2's 3G customers have been neglected for 10 years. This is nothing new http://www.mobiletoday.co.uk/News/27292/4G_rollout_is_not_damaging_3G_signals_O2s_Dunne.aspx

15-11-2013, 05:41	#2
Joel's dad Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 4,481	When I first had O2 back in 2009 it was great. Then it just died a slow death. So I agree with you lol

15-11-2013, 07:34	#3
Mark in Essex Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,644	Can't say about O2 but 4G is definitely effecting Vodafone with slow DATA rates (even when phone shows its got H or even H+) and we are talking less than 150kbps! Also dropped calls and calls being unable to connect! I use to think Vodafone and O2 were the best and shame that when I tried the others I got no signal at all at home or some of the places I go for work.

15-11-2013, 07:41	#4
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	Sorry but if O2 really cared about 3G data speeds and coverage they would have matched their competitors speeds and coverage earlier by upgrading to dual carrier and having 98% coverage like MBNL. Crocodile concern (that's like crocodile tears, I just made it up)

15-11-2013, 08:11	#5
sethpet Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 494	Is it not impossible for 4G to be impacting already established 3G Different bandwidth Different infrastructure Different use of the signal, 4G is back to TDM right?

15-11-2013, 09:09	#6
paulker Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 901	Quote: Originally Posted by Mark in Essex Can't say about O2 but 4G is definitely effecting Vodafone with slow DATA rates (even when phone shows its got H or even H+) and we are talking less than 150kbps! Also dropped calls and calls being unable to connect! I use to think Vodafone and O2 were the best and shame that when I tried the others I got no signal at all at home or some of the places I go for work. I'm in Glasgow and transferred from EE4g to Vodafone. I have found Vodafone to be pretty good with only an odd dropped call. Speeds on 3g are good too. I found EE to be dropping a huge number of calls in my area. This is why I changed.

15-11-2013, 09:18	#7
planetf1 Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hampshire Posts: 521	Frequently very slow data rates (right down to unusable) Dropped data connections Dropped calls in multiple cities/locations in the south ... led me to leave and move to three. Like night and day ... not a single known dropped call/data session (except due to lack of coverage)

15-11-2013, 12:24	#8
danielmeah Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Liverpool(L15)l, UK Posts: 458	Quote: Originally Posted by paulker I'm in Glasgow and transferred from EE4g to Vodafone. I have found Vodafone to be pretty good with only an odd dropped call. Speeds on 3g are good too. I found EE to be dropping a huge number of calls in my area. This is why I changed. Vodafone are capping 3g to 10Mbps. always seem to get dead on 10Mbps here. ee is just garbage!

15-11-2013, 13:56	#9
heskethbang Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Greater Birmingham Posts: 3,906	Quote: Originally Posted by danielmeah Vodafone are capping 3g to 10Mbps. always seem to get dead on 10Mbps here. ee is just garbage! Wow I never got anywhere near that on Vodafone.

15-11-2013, 14:02	#10
xreyuk123 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 509	Quote: Originally Posted by danielmeah Vodafone are capping 3g to 10Mbps. always seem to get dead on 10Mbps here. ee is just garbage! Quote: Originally Posted by heskethbang Wow I never got anywhere near that on Vodafone. Vodafone do run DC-HSDPA in large cities. I get 10Mbps in Manchester, but Daniel is right, it seems to be capped to 10Mbps. As for Birmingham, you should get 10Mbps in the city centre.

15-11-2013, 14:16	#11
heskethbang Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Greater Birmingham Posts: 3,906	Quote: Originally Posted by xreyuk123 Vodafone do run DC-HSDPA in large cities. I get 10Mbps in Manchester, but Daniel is right, it seems to be capped to 10Mbps. As for Birmingham, you should get 10Mbps in the city centre. You're kidding? One of the reasons I left Vodafone was because, standing outside Boots on the High Street (City Centre), the best I could get was a full but unusable EDGE signal. And don't get me started on their service in B14, which deteriorated over a period of 9-12 months.

15-11-2013, 14:36	#12
danielmeah Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Liverpool(L15)l, UK Posts: 458	Quote: Originally Posted by xreyuk123 Vodafone do run DC-HSDPA in large cities. I get 10Mbps in Manchester, but Daniel is right, it seems to be capped to 10Mbps. As for Birmingham, you should get 10Mbps in the city centre. Voip too and the 4G red thing is nonsense. i have that plan and its capped https://www.vodafone.co.uk/cs/groups...ftst073789.pdf

15-11-2013, 14:49	#13
GeordiePaul Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 1,308	Quote: Originally Posted by Mark in Essex Can't say about O2 but 4G is definitely effecting Vodafone with slow DATA rates (even when phone shows its got H or even H+) and we are talking less than 150kbps! Also dropped calls and calls being unable to connect! I use to think Vodafone and O2 were the best and shame that when I tried the others I got no signal at all at home or some of the places I go for work. Vodafone were like that for me about 3 years ago. Utter crap.

15-11-2013, 14:50	#14
japaul Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,662	3G shouldn't be capped if you are on a 4G (not just Red) plan so you should report it. I had a few months of the 10Mbps cap after it was introduced but have seen >20 Mbps on 3G since getting a 4G plan.

15-11-2013, 15:00	#15
dragonrapide Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: shoreham-by-sea Posts: 827	No signal on the seafront in Brighton, if anyone from 02 is reading this it is near West Street, that's how much they care about their customers. We are not even getting 4g here for ages, if at all, so it is just down to crappy service for us. There seem to be plenty of transmitters or whatever they are called, presume they are broken even though web site says good service. Parts of West Sussex also have dreadful, if any, reception. Yes, I have reported it to 02.

15-11-2013, 15:22	#16
qasdfdsaq Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,286	Quote: Originally Posted by Joel's dad When I first had O2 back in 2009 it was great. Then it just died a slow death. So I agree with you lol I actually find the rollout of 3G900 since 2009/2010 has made quite a big improvement, rather the opposite of dying any kind of death. Quote: Originally Posted by Mark in Essex Can't say about O2 but 4G is definitely effecting Vodafone with slow DATA rates (even when phone shows its got H or even H+) and we are talking less than 150kbps! Also dropped calls and calls being unable to connect! Love it when people draw completely absurd and extraneous conclusions based on no objective evidence whatsoever. Every network had slow data rates and dropped calls since before 4G was even invented. Quote: Originally Posted by Thine Wonk Sorry but if O2 really cared about 3G data speeds and coverage they would have matched their competitors speeds and coverage earlier by upgrading to dual carrier and having 98% coverage like MBNL. Crocodile concern (that's like crocodile tears, I just made it up) Well, there is the drawback that they didn't have 3 networks' worth of money and resources to throw at it, evidenced by the fact no other network in the same situation did any better (Orange pre-EE, Vodafone today). Quote: Originally Posted by sethpet Is it not impossible for 4G to be impacting already established 3G Different bandwidth Different infrastructure Different use of the signal, 4G is back to TDM right? No. On EE 4G uses the same frequency band. On most/all networks it uses the same infrastructure - backhaul and parts of core at least. 4G is not TDM. Nobody uses TDM 4G in the UK at the moment. One network has the capability to do so but are suggesting that they won't. Quote: Originally Posted by planetf1 Frequently very slow data rates (right down to unusable) Dropped data connections Dropped calls in multiple cities/locations in the south ... led me to leave and move to three. Like night and day ... not a single known dropped call/data session (except due to lack of coverage) Personal anecdotes are anecdotal. Frequently very slow data rates (right down to unusable) Dropped data connections Dropped calls in multiple cities/locations in the south ... as soon as I moved to three. Like night and day ... not a single known dropped call/data session (except due to lack of coverage) on my O2 phone. Quote: Originally Posted by danielmeah Vodafone are capping 3g to 10Mbps. always seem to get dead on 10Mbps here. ee is just garbage! Really? That must be new. Quote: Originally Posted by xreyuk123 Vodafone do run DC-HSDPA in large cities. I get 10Mbps in Manchester, but Daniel is right, it seems to be capped to 10Mbps. As for Birmingham, you should get 10Mbps in the city centre. Curious. Cap must have come in recently - I've got over 12Mbps a few times on Vodafone before DC-HSDPA was even available.

15-11-2013, 15:29	#17
jabbamk1 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: London, UK Posts: 8,759	Vodafone are capping all customers on non 4G Ready/Red plans to 10Mbps

15-11-2013, 16:03	#18
qasdfdsaq Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,286	Like I said, must be new - last year or two at most? Incidentally that document also says upload speeds on non-4G plans are capped to 8Mbps - because you're likely to ever achieve that on a network with maximum physical upload capability of 5.76Mbps...

15-11-2013, 16:23	#19
Mark in Essex Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,644	Quote: Originally Posted by sethpet Is it not impossible for 4G to be impacting already established 3G Different bandwidth Different infrastructure Different use of the signal, 4G is back to TDM right? I'm convinced it is as have been with Vodafone on and off for 10+ years and never had many problems with calls until 4G was launched (also the data speed with 3G as well - always use to be at least 3meg download but has never got above 150kbps since 4G was around in Harlow Town centre).

15-11-2013, 16:24	#20
qasdfdsaq Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,286	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correla...mply_causation

15-11-2013, 16:29	#21
Mark in Essex Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,644	At qasdfdsac - please see my above post. I've never had it before where more than every 3rd call does not connect (both on my phone and also my works phone that are both on Vodafone) and also the same for calls dropping out a LOT more often. It's never been half this bad as I've only ever had it with less than say 1 in 20 calls not connecting in the past. Also what else would you put the constant slow data speeds down to in 1 area when it was exactly the same time they switched on the 4G it started happening? It might not be directly related to the 4G frequency but they have done something since it's launch as like I say it's dropped from constantly getting 3meg+ download to never above 150kbps since the switch on.

DS Forums

O2 concerned that people think 4G is impacting 3G coverage

15-11-2013, 16:32	#22
qasdfdsaq Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,286	Quote: Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correla...mply_causation ..... Do you even know the exact time they "switched on the 4G"? Hint: It was nowhere near the time when you think it happened.

15-11-2013, 16:34	#23
jabbamk1 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: London, UK Posts: 8,759	Quote: Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq ..... Yo bro. This is a forum for healthy discussion. Not for someone to claim one opinion is better than all other opinions. But I do agree, it is unlikely that switching on 4G had anything to do with the dropped calls. Its probably another issue.

15-11-2013, 16:36	#24
qasdfdsaq Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,286	Just pointing out some basic logic principles. Correlation != causation isn't opinion. Not denying whether there was an effect or what the effect may have been. Simply put, you have to come up with more than "I think it happened around the same time" to establish a causal link. Particularly if we want to establish why it's happening and what to do about it. Science and technology develops on the basis of verifying repeatable phenomena under controlled conditions and building an understanding of the underlying processes based on that, or using the former to verify the latter. "I think it happened around the same time" is neither.

15-11-2013, 16:42	#25
Mark in Essex Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,644	Quote: Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq ..... Do you even know the exact time they "switched on the 4G"? Hint: It was nowhere near the time when you think it happened. I know a rough time though and seeing that I have been using Vodafone for well over 10 years it's a bit strange it happened around this time up until now. Even if it was switched on earlier all the public were not using it.