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Should new battery for laptop have "battery wear"?


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Old 15-11-2013, 09:58
jsmith99
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I've just bought a new battery for my Toshiba laptop through Amazon.

After a couple of conditioning cycles, the PC Health Monitor upgraded battery health from 'Poor', but only to 'Fair'.

A little research suggested a different conditioning cycle :

Run battery down till PC switches itself off,
Leave for an hour.
Charge with laptop switched off.

I tried this, and also downloaded a utility called BatteryBar.

This shows :

Maximum capacity 47,520 mWh
Capacity as charged 42,606 mWh

Full runtime 2:30 to 2:50

Battery Wear currently 10.3%, has been down to 7.4%.

Should a new battery have battery wear, or is it inaccuracy in BatteryBar?

A little more research says that these batteries shouldn't be fully discharged, but be recharged when they're at about 20% charge.

Anyone any ideas? Is this acceptable, or should I return it?
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Old 15-11-2013, 10:59
s2k
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If its only recently been purchased and was doing this when you got it then I would certainly take it up with Amazon. Be aware that they are likely to want the whole laptop back as its probably going to be under a basic RTB agreement. You should therefore transfer any data off it and run the factory restore option so its back exactly as how you had it.

Note that batteries aren't included in the standard manufacturer's warranty, but for it to be in a degraded state when you got it is not acceptable and I'd be surprised if they argued over it.
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Old 15-11-2013, 11:23
Stig
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I've just bought a new battery for my Toshiba laptop through Amazon.

After a couple of conditioning cycles, the PC Health Monitor upgraded battery health from 'Poor', but only to 'Fair'.

A little research suggested a different conditioning cycle :

Run battery down till PC switches itself off,
Leave for an hour.
Charge with laptop switched off.

I tried this, and also downloaded a utility called BatteryBar.

This shows :

Maximum capacity 47,520 mWh
Capacity as charged 42,606 mWh

Full runtime 2:30 to 2:50

Battery Wear currently 10.3%, has been down to 7.4%.

Should a new battery have battery wear, or is it inaccuracy in BatteryBar?

A little more research says that these batteries shouldn't be fully discharged, but be recharged when they're at about 20% charge.

Anyone any ideas? Is this acceptable, or should I return it?
I think these software utilities are giving you excess information you wouldn't have noticed usually.

How much did you pay for the battery? If it was cheap, then don't worry about it. If you paid a lot for a proper Toshiba branded battery, then you might want to exchange it.
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Old 15-11-2013, 11:47
mpmc17
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I've just bought a new battery for my Toshiba laptop through Amazon.

After a couple of conditioning cycles, the PC Health Monitor upgraded battery health from 'Poor', but only to 'Fair'.

A little research suggested a different conditioning cycle :

Run battery down till PC switches itself off,
Leave for an hour.
Charge with laptop switched off.

I tried this, and also downloaded a utility called BatteryBar.

This shows :

Maximum capacity 47,520 mWh
Capacity as charged 42,606 mWh

Full runtime 2:30 to 2:50

Battery Wear currently 10.3%, has been down to 7.4%.

Should a new battery have battery wear, or is it inaccuracy in BatteryBar?

A little more research says that these batteries shouldn't be fully discharged, but be recharged when they're at about 20% charge.

Anyone any ideas? Is this acceptable, or should I return it?
I wouldn't believe the results these battery meters spew out, using hwmonitor on my laptop it says the battery charge capacity is much higher than the designed charge capacity using another app it lists much lower!
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Old 15-11-2013, 12:04
jsmith99
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Thanks for the replies.

s2k : It's only the battery I've bought - the laptop is nearly 4 years old.

Stig and mpmc17 : I appreciate these pieces of software aren't necessarily accurate, but when two separate pieces agree, it's worrying.

I'm going to charge it again a couple of times, with the laptop switched on and running.
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Old 15-11-2013, 13:06
s2k
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s2k : It's only the battery I've bought - the laptop is nearly 4 years old.
Ah my bad. Teach me to read posts fully -_-'

Is it a genuine Toshiba battery? If its not then it could be that the laptop and/or software isn't recognizing it properly and giving false readings.

More importantly, does the battery perform pretty much as you would expect if you ignore these messages?
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Old 15-11-2013, 16:54
Ulysses777
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Most of these battery utilities get their info from the same place, which is a chip in the battery itself. And for the most part, these readings are only estimates, based on the measured rate of charge/discharge.

One of the main problems is the battery not remembering when it's actually empty. Someone once had me look at an old laptop which was apparently having low battery life times displayed in Windows, so I discharged it while running a program to keep the CPU at 100%. After Windows reported the battery down to 0%, it stayed on for over 20 minutes before finally dying.

To the OP, assuming your laptop runs either Windows Vista or later, by default it will hibernate the system when the battery gauge reaches the critical level (around 5%).
Did you discharge the battery until Windows went into hibernate mode, was was it by another method (such as leaving it on the BIOS settings screen). If it was the former, the battery may not have discharged as much as it could have actually have done.
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Old 16-11-2013, 00:35
jsmith99
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..............
Is it a genuine Toshiba battery? If its not then it could be that the laptop and/or software isn't recognizing it properly and giving false readings.

More importantly, does the battery perform pretty much as you would expect if you ignore these messages?
It has "Toshiba", and the part number, printed on it, and was made by a company called LaVolta. Yes, it takes about two hours to run down from full charge to 20%.

..............To the OP, assuming your laptop runs either Windows Vista or later, by default it will hibernate the system when the battery gauge reaches the critical level (around 5%).
Did you discharge the battery until Windows went into hibernate mode, was was it by another method (such as leaving it on the BIOS settings screen). If it was the former, the battery may not have discharged as much as it could have actually have done.
I'm on Windows 7 x64. The first time I let it run until it shut itself down, but the beeps were so annoying that after that I shut it down at about 70%.,

The situation has now improved - the Toshiba PC Health monitor shows the battery health as "Good", with the full 'arc' coloured blue. And BatteryBar shows 'Battery Wear' as 5.9%.

Is this going to improve with a few more charge/discharge cycles, or should I return it?
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Old 16-11-2013, 22:15
Pucky
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Note that batteries aren't included in the standard manufacturer's warranty, but for it to be in a degraded state when you got it is not acceptable and I'd be surprised if they argued over it.
Actually batteries ARE included in a standard manufacturers warranty - but may only be for 6 months rather than 12.
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Old 16-11-2013, 22:52
s2k
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Actually batteries ARE included in a standard manufacturers warranty - but may only be for 6 months rather than 12.
You're wrong. The main warranty will have exclusions in place for the battery and occasionally the PSU. These are classed as consumable items and are covered by a separate warranty which in my experience has normally been 12months.

With Toshiba you can definitely pay to have the main warranty extended/upgraded beyond the basic 12month RTB option. Some suppliers will also sometimes give you an option to extend the warranty of the battery (I know Dell offer this) but cant say for certain if Toshiba do.

@OP
It sounds like the battery is gradually being calibrated correctly so I wouldn't stress over it.
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Old 17-11-2013, 02:55
Loobster
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A little research suggested a different conditioning cycle :

Run battery down till PC switches itself off,
Leave for an hour.
Charge with laptop switched off.
Your research steered you 100% down the wrong path.

The above cycle was possibly useful 8 years ago before Li-ion batteries. Earlier batteries suffered from the 'memory' effect and a full discharge and recharge could condition them.

Li-ion batteries have their life shortened by the exact same procedure, as deep discharges are the most harmful to the battery. Try not to let them get below 30% or 25%.

Either way, sounds like you got a dud.

But don't do that to your next battery.
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Old 17-11-2013, 07:07
Stig
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Your research steered you 100% down the wrong path.

The above cycle was possibly useful 8 years ago before Li-ion batteries. Earlier batteries suffered from the 'memory' effect and a full discharge and recharge could condition them.

Li-ion batteries have their life shortened by the exact same procedure, as deep discharges are the most harmful to the battery. Try not to let them get below 30% or 25%.

Either way, sounds like you got a dud.

But don't do that to your next battery.
Interesting. Have you got a link for that?
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Old 17-11-2013, 08:44
asm
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If this laptop is 4 years old it is possible that the battery is no longer made, in which case you may have bought a battery that is a few years old and has a reduced capacity simply because of its age.
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Old 17-11-2013, 11:16
jsmith99
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I noticed yesterday that the battery was only charging to 98% and 99%, according to both PC health monitor and BatteryBar. Then this morning it had dropped 4% in 8 hours, so I've gone through the Returns process at Amazon, and printed off the Returns forms.

Unfortunately, because it's an external supplier, I can only get a refund, not a replacement, so I'll have to scrape the sticky tape from the terminals of the old one, and start again from scratch.

And yes, I'll do the recharging cycle from 20-30%.

Thanks for all the interest in this.

asm - the battery fits a high number of models, so I assume some are current.
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Old 17-11-2013, 13:26
bri160356
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These two articles make ‘interesting’ reading. (depends how bored you are I suppose.)

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...ased_batteries

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/increas...aptop-battery/

In my personal experience (which goes back more years/laptops than I care to remember) it seems the difference between longevity/performance of Laptop batteries (Ni-Cad, Ni-MH or Lithium Ion) has always been negligible in respect of whether the user ‘abused’ their battery or tried their best, within practical reason, to follow the manufacturer’s guide-lines.

To be honest, these days, with the battery cost being relatively modest, I personally don’t follow any ‘guide-lines’ regarding deep-discharges, storage at low temperatures, removing from laptop when running on AC adaptor etc etc etc.

In the early days there was a strong suspicion that battery/equipment manufacturers would (allegedly!) exaggerate claims regarding power/longevity and anyone complaining would be told quote “ the recommended battery performance guidelines need to be followed” or other such ‘advice’.

Lithium-Ion batteries, even though vastly superior to Ni-Cad & Ni-MH, start to ‘age’ slowly from the moment they are manufactured. The more you use them (i.e. charge/discharge) the sooner they will become decrepit.
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Old 18-11-2013, 11:06
jsmith99
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Thanks, bri, I'll bear that in mind when I receive my new battery. The first one, I came across during my googling on the topic.

I took it to a local "Collect+" point yesterday afternoon (first I've heard of them), and last night had an email from Amazon to say they were crediting my credit card account.
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Old 10-05-2014, 14:31
fivish
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My new ASUS ultrabook battery had wear...it was at 97% on BatteryBar.
ASUS replaced the battery with one showing 98%. So it looks like a little wear is to expected.

I have had the ASUS ultrabook (UX32A) for 18 months and now the battery is at 91.4%.

Battery life was nothing like the 7 hours advertised. It was about 3.5 and now its about 3.

I had a Samsung NC10 which after 3.5 years gave 3.5 hours battery life at 72%.

I have an 8 year old Dell Inspiron 1300 which was one of the first laptops with NiMh battery. The battery is at 60% and still gives 1.6 hours life.

I also have a 9 year old Dell Inspiron 2200 which took the last of the NiCd batteries. Its on its second battery now and gives just 10 minutes on full charge!

Rechargeable batteries are getting better, slowly.
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