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Regenerations used up... What next?


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Old 15-11-2013, 10:38
Shoppy
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So now it would appear The Doctor has used up all his twelve regenerations ...

Original = 1st Doctor
First Regeneration = 2nd Doctor
Second Regeneration = 3rd Doctor
Third Regeneration = 4th Doctor
Fourth Regeneration = 5th Doctor
Fifth Regeneration = 6th Doctor
Sixth Regeneration = 7th Doctor
Seventh Regeneration = 8th Doctor
Eighth Regeneration = War Doctor
Ninth Regeneration = 9th Doctor
Tenth Regeneration = 10th Doctor
Eleventh Regeneration = 10th Doctor healed + Metacrisis Doctor born
Twelfth Regeneration = 11th Doctor

... how do we think Capaldi's Doctor is going to be given a new lease of life?

- A new lifecycle?
- The Sisterhood's Elixir?
- Some other Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey business?
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Old 15-11-2013, 10:47
darthbibble
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It's wrong to assume that Tennant's Doctor used up an extra regeneration. It might be the way Moffat goes, but to say it's certain is simply wrong at this time.
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Old 15-11-2013, 10:54
CD93
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"I've been really, really quite careful about the numbering of the Doctors," insists Steven. "He's very specific that, the John Hurt Doctor, that he doesn't take the name of the Doctor. He doesn't call himself that. He's the same Time Lord, the same being as either Doctors either side of him, but he's the one who says 'I'm not the Doctor.' So the Eleventh Doctor is still the Eleventh Doctor, the Tenth Doctor is still the Tenth.... Technically, if you really counted it, the David Tennant Doctor is two Doctors, on account of the Meta-Crisis Doctor. It's not a matter of counting the regenerations, but of counting the faces of the Time Lord that calls himself the Doctor."
Re-post. Implication that meta-crisis counts as a regeneration.
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Old 15-11-2013, 11:10
chuffnobbler
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I think Peter Capaldi is a smokescreen to cover up that the series is going to end now that all regenerations have gone.
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Old 15-11-2013, 11:29
The Gatherer
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I think Peter Capaldi is a smokescreen to cover up that the series is going to end now that all regenerations have gone.
Undoubtedly true. I expect the Christmas special to be the last ever episode of Doctor Who.
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Old 15-11-2013, 11:29
Sue_Aitch
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Cheer up! From what Matt's Doctor said to Clyde in SJA there are plenty of incarnations to come.
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Old 15-11-2013, 12:02
James Frederick
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I do think it will just be explained by a throw away line like during the Time War the limit was upped to give the a better chance
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Old 15-11-2013, 12:03
CD93
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Moffat confirmed that The Doctor's regeneration limit still exists.

The Doctor can only regenerate 12 times
I know it's a risk and could be very controversial. But I wouldn't be surprised to see something of the Time Lord civilization to return by 2014.
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Old 15-11-2013, 12:33
kegsie
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I do think it will just be explained by a throw away line like during the Time War the limit was upped to give the a better chance
Why use a throw away line when Moffatt can potentially use the limit for a full story or even a series arc.

I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason the War Doctor exists is to speed up the final regeneration so Moff can be the one who deals with it.
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Old 15-11-2013, 12:57
Dear Viewer
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Three words: 'Planet Of Fire'.

Fifth Doctor story with Turlough's departure.

During the episode, Peter Davison's Doctor enters a column of lifegiving cold fire.

From this moment, in my opinion, the producers had license to give him extra regenerations.

Failing that, River Song/Melanie Pond giving up her 'regenerations' to save Matt Smith's Doctor in 'Let's Kill Hitler'.
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Old 15-11-2013, 12:57
lordOfTime
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The way I see it is like this,

Until we were introduced to John Hurt, we assumed that there had been a simple chronology of Doctor's from 1 to 11. (or I did anyway)

When I saw McGann regenerating, I wanted so much for Christopher Ecclestone's image to appear as that had been the order I'd told myself would be so so long, but deep down I knew we'd end up with John Hurt, and so it transpired. This leaves the question opened as to who JH will end up becoming. The obvious answer would of course be Ecclestone, who we know of as the 9th Doctor but the question remains unanswered.

We know of course that in 2008 RTD threw the cat amongst the Pigeons when we saw David Tennant's Doctor start to regenerate. I still remember being unable to believe my eyes and the brain just start to explode as to the possibilities of what was going to happen with that epic cliffhanger.

He ended up spawning a clone after pouring the regeneration energy into his hand. Since then it's been a debate as to whether 10.5 as we know him counts as a regeneration.

In my view, I've never really been convinced. I've come to rhe realisation, late as it may be, that "The Doctor" isn't just a name, but a Title that he uses that reflects an ideology. Not just a Doctor of medicine; a physician, but as a Time Lord, a Doctor of everything. Ten's Doctor was pretty much in love with himself. He never really wanted to change through his 10th incarnation. He didn't want to change in "Stolen Earth/Jouney's End" and if he had a chance, he would have prevented it in "End of Time". I think this must have had an effect on is "handy-spare-hand" clon. 10.5, didn't share the same ideology as the regular Doctor and The Doctor made sure he cut his ties with him as soon as possible.

Plus the fact he siphoned off the energy and made sure it "didn't go all the way" is also a factor. Yes it started off as a genuine part of the natural regeneration cycle, that can't be ignored but it wasn't finished properly either. So for me, 10.5 was neither a proper Doctor or a regeneration.

Going back to Paul McGann and his regeneration that we were treated to yesterday, that in itself opens up a potential whole new regeneration cycle. McGann's Doctor had met his end and was only brought back by the Sisterhood of Karn(sp?). Drinking from the cup brought a new Elixir to him, new regeneration energy. The kind that maybe for me "explains" the difference in "classic who" style regeneration to "new who".

But as a consequence, maybe we go from

Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee, Baker, Davison, Baker, McCoy, McGann, Eccclestone, Tennant, Smith to

McGann, Hurt, Ecclestone, Tennant, Smith Capaldi

Interesting times for Doctor Who, and it'll be fun to see how this plays out.
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Old 15-11-2013, 13:46
Granny McSmith
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Moffat confirmed that The Doctor's regeneration limit still exists.

.
Oh, well, he must really think that then.

But it doesn't matter what Moffat thinks, if it's the next writer/showrunner who has to deal with it.
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Old 15-11-2013, 14:02
Shoppy
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But it doesn't matter what Moffat thinks, if it's the next writer/showrunner who has to deal with it.
Well that's kind of the point ... It does matter because we're there now,

Moffat has confirmed both that the twelve regeneration limit still stands AND that the metacrisis regeneration counted, which means we have already seen the twelfth regeneration in The End Of Time and The Eleventh Hour.

...and we know for definite now that Hurt IS an incarnation inbetween the 8th and 9th Doctors.

So that's (11 Doctors = 10 regenerations) + (metacrisis = 1 regeneration) + ("War Doctor" = 1 regeneration) = 12 regenerations.
We are there, limit reached.
So It's not the next showrunner who's going to have to deal with it, It's going to be dealt with in the near future.
...I was just wondering what people's thoughts were as to HOW?
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Old 15-11-2013, 14:09
Granny McSmith
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Well that's kind of the point ... It does matter because we're at that point now,

Moffat has confirmed both that the twelve regeneration limit still stands AND that the metacrisis regeneration counted, which means we have already seen the twelfth regeneration in The End Of Time and The Eleventh Hour.

...and we know for definite now that Hurt IS an incarnation inbetween the 8th and 9th Doctors.

So that's (11 Doctors = 10 regenerations) + (metacrisis = 1 regeneration) + ("War Doctor" = 1 regeneration) = 12 regenerations.
We are there, limit reached.
So It's not the next showrunner who's going to have to deal with it, It's going to be dealt with in the near future.
Well, as Moffat seemingly hasn't handed in his resignation, and has, in fact chosen another Doctor, we must assume that it is going to be dealt with.

Or ignored, depending on how Moffat feels on the day.
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Old 15-11-2013, 14:17
dvirgo
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I don't think that the metacrisis Doctor was a regeneration. The 10th Doctor says that he used his had to heal himself so he didn't need to regenerate. The meta Doctor was created by donna really not the doctor himself actually, his hand. Basically he's a human clone.

I think that opportunity to start from scratch with Doctors life span have been made available because of the intervention with the sisterhood. Maybe the drink not only made him regenerate but actually brought him back to life. ie: a new 12 regenerations. He was dead after all

If they brought a human back to life wouldn't you return with all your abilities, could be that the Doctor is the same.
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Old 15-11-2013, 14:22
bokonon
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Well that's kind of the point ... It does matter because we're there now,

Moffat has confirmed both that the twelve regeneration limit still stands AND that the metacrisis regeneration counted, which means we have already seen the twelfth regeneration in The End Of Time and The Eleventh Hour.

...and we know for definite now that Hurt IS an incarnation inbetween the 8th and 9th Doctors.

So that's (11 Doctors = 10 regenerations) + (metacrisis = 1 regeneration) + ("War Doctor" = 1 regeneration) = 12 regenerations.
We are there, limit reached.
So It's not the next showrunner who's going to have to deal with it, It's going to be dealt with in the near future.
...I was just wondering what people's thoughts were as to HOW?
I agree with your analysis and the whole premise of the Doctor's death on Trenzalore suggests that he has run out of regenerations. The key point is that Moffatt has gone on and on about how the 50th will set up the next fifty years of Dr. Who and I would have thought the obvious implication is that he is establishing the basis for a whole new cycle of regenerations.

As to the question about how it seems likely that there is going to be some sort of reset regarding the way in which the War Doctor ended the Time War but I would struggle to get further than that. Much as I like Moffat, I do worry that there has just been too much messing with the continuity at too many points. Hopefully we can have a moratorium on any further messing with timelines after the fiftieth. On the other hand I would quite like the Time Lords to return properly and not in the way they did in the End of Time farce.

EDIT: Actually I have had a new thought. What about if the current Doctor really does die but we learn what it means to be the Doctor and the title is handed on to a new Gallifreyan in the resurrected civilisation. In other words there really is a new physical manifestation of the Doctor who inherits the moral code of Doctorhood. Rather than a regeneration there is a handover of the title before the MS doctor goes to his grave on Trenzalore. Of course that won't happen but I at least want marks for originality...

Last edited by bokonon : 15-11-2013 at 14:29. Reason: New Thought
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Old 15-11-2013, 14:43
Kent32
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In the Night of the Doctor mini-episode, the Sisters of Karn (see: The Brain of Morbius) helped the dying 8th Doctor to shape his regeneration so that the War Doctor was born.

Perhaps the Sisters will also be able to grant the Doctor a new regeneration cycle?
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Old 15-11-2013, 14:46
chuffnobbler
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In the Night of the Doctor mini-episode, the Sisters of Karn (see: The Brain of Morbius) helped the dying 8th Doctor to shape his regeneration so that the War Doctor was born.

Perhaps the Sisters will also be able to grant the Doctor a new regeneration cycle?
The McGann/Hurt regeneration is the earliest "explosion of gold" regeneration, and all those that we have seen since have looked the same. Maybe this is also a gift of the Sisterhood, as Kent says.
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Old 15-11-2013, 14:59
Philip_Lamb
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Its like bring Spock back in.star trek three or the very first regeneration, if its done well it'll work.
You could have The War Doctor at the end of the time war full of regrets and guilty, go back to Karn and as them give him infinite incarnations, feeling he has to serve a penance.
You could have Hurt regenate into Ecclestone and Smith into Capaldi simultaneously and say it caused an anomaly in his time stream
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Old 15-11-2013, 18:55
rua is god
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I don't think that the metacrisis Doctor was a regeneration. The 10th Doctor says that he used his had to heal himself so he didn't need to regenerate. The meta Doctor was created by donna really not the doctor himself actually, his hand. Basically he's a human clone.
I've not watched it recently so may be wrong but didn't he say that he filtered the rest of the regeneration energy into his hand which is why the regeneration only healed him.

If he did that would mean he did use a full regeneration cycle, just not all within his own body.

As I said i've not watched it recently so may be wrong but that would be my understanding of it if I am write.
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Old 15-11-2013, 19:34
dvirgo
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I've not watched it recently so may be wrong but didn't he say that he filtered the rest of the regeneration energy into his hand which is why the regeneration only healed him.

If he did that would mean he did use a full regeneration cycle, just not all within his own body.

As I said i've not watched it recently so may be wrong but that would be my understanding of it if I am write.
You could be right but i think if this were true it would have been explored in the narrative. The same with River passing her energy to the Doctor it may mean he has more lives and could possibly become a woman. I guess we have to wait until moffat or whoever decides the new rules
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Old 15-11-2013, 19:36
13lives
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The metacrisis doctor was definitely a full regeneration cycle used, but interestingly Smiths Doctor used some regeneration energy to heal rivers wrist as well, so wonder if using up a little regeneration energy will have an impact on the xmas regeneration? time will tell i guess
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Old 15-11-2013, 20:10
lordOfTime
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But think about Ten's words. "To stop the energy going all the way..."

The Regeneration has 2 purposes in my eyes. 1. To heal the body of whatever ailment has triggered the regeneration process. 2. Second, to change the DNA of the incarnation, mind and body.

The regeneration cycle cannot do that if it is not finding the correct and complete DNA of the host. The Handyspare hand was a good match but not a complete copy of the Doctor in itself so I think that was one reason why it was only able to make a human clone.
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Old 15-11-2013, 20:42
hajua
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Undoubtedly true. I expect the Christmas special to be the last ever episode of Doctor Who.
I think they'll count the regenerations so that Peter Capaldi ends the series in 3 years time when he dies. He will have an onscreen scottish accent (like Sylvestor) and Jenna is the most Ace-like companion we've had. I'm really looking forward to Capaldi's spoon playing and question mark umbrella. Clara will soon work out how to make explosive leaves (leaf9) and give the sonic rest from resolving every plot.
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Old 15-11-2013, 20:52
snopaelic
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Meta crisis doctor dosn't count as a regeneration.
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