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Strictly Come Dancing...'it takes two'..chat thread.. (Part 15)
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-Sid-
17-12-2013
I tend to agree with Rhumba.

I happen to think Abbey's a beautiful dancer and would make a worthy winner. She's been pretty consistent and I can see she's improved. However, I also think the judges have let her get away with stuff whilst picking holes in other people's dances. For instance, Nicole Cutler said of Abbey's American Smooth: "So entertaining although a lot of foot faults & felt her posture was too far back. Not as good as 1st dance" - why wasn't foot-fault-spotter Len onto this? I can't help feeling that if Sophie - or previously Ashley - had made those same errors, they'd have been pulled up on them and penalised. The same thing has happened with other dances. Ian Waite said Abbey's Salsa needed more quality for 10s, Karen Hardy said there was too much gapping in her Quickstep for 10s. It's been a recurring theme. Not Abbey's fault (and to be fair, she's always said how shocked she is when she gets top marks), it's more a criticism of the judges. I just wish they would be consistent. Either be generous to everybody or nobody. Don't pick and choose.
edy10
17-12-2013
Originally Posted by Monkseal:
“It'll be up tomorrow. Hopefully. Results Thursday and then the real important stuff (Best Safety Sex-Face Voting) up on Friday.”

Can't wait !!!
I kept checking the blog to see if the review was already out .
Rhumbatugger
17-12-2013
Originally Posted by Smokeychan1:
“I'm so confused (not really). A few weeks back the opinion was she was being built up to make it appear as if Natalie had a rival in the dance stakes.

Honestly, the stuff that gets thought up on these forums...

ETA: If you're around Monk, does that mean we finally have the full performance review up? I'll pop over and take a look.”

Well, you can look, or you can go with the advantage your favourite gets.

And it can be both, build Abbey up as a dancer, stop building Susannah up.

Something certainly smells about all of this, if you've actually got a sense of smell.

I suspect that even some rather sensible Abbey fans feel a tad uncomfortable about it.
edy10
17-12-2013
Originally Posted by -Sid-:
“I tend to agree with Rhumba.

I happen to think Abbey's a beautiful dancer and would make a worthy winner. She's been pretty consistent and I can see she's improved. However, I also think the judges have let her get away with stuff whilst picking holes in other people's dances. For instance, Nicole Cutler said of Abbey's American Smooth: "So entertaining although a lot of foot faults & felt her posture was too far back. Not as good as 1st dance" - why wasn't foot-fault-spotter Len onto this? I can't help feeling that if Sophie - or previously Ashley - had made those same errors, they'd have been pulled up on them and penalised. The same thing has happened with other dances. Ian Waite said Abbey's Salsa needed more quality for 10s, Karen Hardy said there was too much gapping in her Quickstep for 10s. It's been a recurring theme. Not Abbey's fault (and to be fair, she's always said how shocked she is when she gets top marks), it's more a criticism of the judges. I just wish they would be consistent. Either be generous to everybody or nobody. Don't pick and choose.”

I agree somewhat but it's not really her fault though.
Darcey for example needs to stop saying that she spotted mistakes and then give it a 10. She did it with Patrick, Abbey, Susanna as far as I can recall.

The judges are not helping those contestants when they do that.
Rhumbatugger
17-12-2013
Originally Posted by -Sid-:
“I tend to agree with Rhumba.

I happen to think Abbey's a beautiful dancer and would make a worthy winner. She's been pretty consistent and I can see she's improved. However, I also think the judges have let her get away with stuff whilst picking holes in other people's dances. For instance, Nicole Cutler said of Abbey's American Smooth: "So entertaining although a lot of foot faults & felt her posture was too far back. Not as good as 1st dance" - why wasn't foot-fault-spotter Len onto this? I can't help feeling that if Sophie - or previously Ashley - had made those same errors, they'd have been pulled up on them and penalised. The same thing has happened with other dances. Ian Waite said Abbey's Salsa needed more quality for 10s, Karen Hardy said there was too much gapping in her Quickstep for 10s. It's been a recurring theme. Not Abbey's fault (and to be fair, she's always said how shocked she is when she gets top marks), it's more a criticism of the judges. I just wish they would be consistent. Either be generous to everybody or nobody. Don't pick and choose.”



Thank you Sid, I am actually pretty experienced in the ten dance. And I'm not making it up.

And as far as Abbey is concerned, the fact I find her irritating wouldn't be a problem if I could actually SEE that she was being treated the same as everyone else.

The combination, however, along with the attitude of some of her fans (not all) makes an unpleasant mix, I have to say.
Jennifer_F
17-12-2013
Originally Posted by -Sid-:
“I tend to agree with Rhumba.

I happen to think Abbey's a beautiful dancer and would make a worthy winner. She's been pretty consistent and I can see she's improved. However, I also think the judges have let her get away with stuff whilst picking holes in other people's dances. For instance, Nicole Cutler said of Abbey's American Smooth: "So entertaining although a lot of foot faults & felt her posture was too far back. Not as good as 1st dance" - why wasn't foot-fault-spotter Len onto this? I can't help feeling that if Sophie - or previously Ashley - had made those same errors, they'd have been pulled up on them and penalised. The same thing has happened with other dances. Ian Waite said Abbey's Salsa needed more quality for 10s, Karen Hardy said there was too much gapping in her Quickstep for 10s. It's been a recurring theme. Not Abbey's fault (and to be fair, she's always said how shocked she is when she gets top marks), it's more a criticism of the judges. I just wish they would be consistent. Either be generous to everybody or nobody. Don't pick and choose.”

To be fair, they all make a LOT of mistakes, the judges will only highlight one or two. With the exception of Natalie - and I'm not especially a fan - none of them display any good footwork or body styling. This is to be expected as they are not dancers. The point I'm making is that yes Abbey makes mistakes, but so do the others. The judges will weigh everything up when making their decisions as to what marks,to give.
edy10
17-12-2013
Originally Posted by Julie_Evans:
“It's the same with Sophie, Abbey and Susanna - their detractors aren't going to change their minds at this late stage imo.”

^^^^^^^^^
Rhumbatugger
17-12-2013
Originally Posted by Jennifer_F:
“To be fair, they all make a LOT of mistakes, the judges will only highlight one or two. With the exception of Natalie - and I'm not especially a fan - none of them display any good footwork or body styling. This is to be expected as they are not dancers. The point I'm making is that yes Abbey makes mistakes, but so do the others. The judges will weigh everything up when making their decisions as to what marks,to give.”

But where is the WEIGHT?

It's never been on the mistakes of Abbey, not for a long time if ever.

And hardly even spoken.

That's the issue.

It's been on everyone else's mistakes, some more than others, but not on hers.
holly berry
17-12-2013
Originally Posted by Rhumbatugger:
“So, you think she's a great dancer that deserved all those tens then? And hardly a word of negative crit at all?

If you do, then that's your opinion, mine is that it's very obvious that they have built her up to rival Susanna because of the popularity factor.

And I'm perfectly entitled to both think it and say it.

Thinking she wasn't treated with kid gloves and wasn't overmarked, seems to me rather unobservant.”

No she's not a great dancer. None of the celebs are otherwise they would be professional dancers. I don't think she has been any more over marked or treated with kid gloves than any of the other contestants but I respect your opinion. Don't agree that 'they' (btw who are 'they'?) have built her up to rival Susanna! Why would they do that?
holly berry
17-12-2013
Originally Posted by Rhumbatugger:
“But where is the WEIGHT?

It's never been on the mistakes of Abbey, not for a long time if ever.

And hardly even spoken.

That's the issue.

It's been on everyone else's mistakes, some more than others, but not on hers.”

Abbey's mistakes are constantly pointed out otherwise she would be getting a perfect score for every dance!
Jennifer_F
17-12-2013
Originally Posted by Rhumbatugger:
“But where is the WEIGHT?

It's never been on the mistakes of Abbey, not for a long time if ever.

And hardly even spoken.

That's the issue.

It's been on everyone else's mistakes, some more than others, but not on hers.”

I think what weighs in her favour is her performance factor as well. This is - as we are always being told - an entertainment show. No-one can deny that she has good floor personality. Compared, perhaps with Sophie, who can sometimes seem a little too "cool", when they all make loads of mistakes, the floor presence will add to her performance.
Rhumbatugger
17-12-2013
Originally Posted by Jennifer_F:
“I think what weighs in her favour is her performance factor as well. This is - as we are always being told - an entertainment show. No-one can deny that she has good floor personality. Compared, perhaps with Sophie, who can sometimes seem a little too "cool", when they all make loads of mistakes, the floor presence will add to her performance.”

It does to a degree in ballroom, as her top line is nice, and you can ignore her feet and she can fake it better.

In her latin it doesn't, it just doesn't. And still no crit, and still tens.

Performance level isn't SO important that the basics should be ignored.
edy10
17-12-2013
Originally Posted by holly berry:
“Abbey's mistakes are constantly pointed out otherwise she would be getting a perfect score for every dance!”

Originally Posted by Jennifer_F:
“I think what weighs in her favour is her performance factor as well. This is - as we are always being told - an entertainment show. No-one can deny that she has good floor personality. Compared, perhaps with Sophie, who can sometimes seem a little too "cool", when they all make loads of mistakes, the floor presence will add to her performance.”

I concur.
Rhumbatugger
17-12-2013
Originally Posted by edy10:
“I concur.”

Hardly surprising.
Monkseal
17-12-2013
I think Abbey & Aljaz have the best on-floor chemistry as a pairing, but I wish she'd been stretched more in terms of what she's been asked to do. I think that might be why her Viennese Waltz is one of my favourite dances of hers, if not my favourite, because she needed to act a character (ie a bitch) (quiet, Anti-Abbeys). I just wish she'd had to do that more : she's definitely not had the level of bizarre themes that most of the others have had to adapt to.
holly berry
17-12-2013
What I like about Abbey is that she has taken on board criticism about gaping, footwork, flailing arms, posture etc and made improvements. Obviously still far from perfect but as Karen Hardy said tonight those who criticise her fail to give her credit for what she achieves.
Doghouse Riley
17-12-2013
I thought tonight, Abbey was the least "tactile" that I've seen her, when she's been with her partner.

I bet Aljaz was relieved.
Jennifer_F
17-12-2013
Originally Posted by Rhumbatugger:
“It does to a degree in ballroom, as her top line is nice, and you can ignore her feet and she can fake it better.

In her latin it doesn't, it just doesn't. And still no crit, and still tens.

Performance level isn't SO important that the basics should be ignored.”

I agree and disagree.If they ALL had the basics I would totally agree, but they don't. With the exception of Natalie....they all have fair Ballroom, loads of technical errors,bad footwork,some more back weighted than others, but as you say, because they are in the arms of the male Pro, can "fake " it a bit to the untrained eye. None of the other 3 girls are great at latin, so if you put these 3 on a level playing field, ie all got their faults in both styles but 1 - Abbey - is really revelling in the competition, giving it everything and showing her natural enjoyment, that, for me, must be one of the deciding factors.
We'll have to agree to disagree but appreciate your thoughts and viewpoint. Hope you enjoy the final
Rhumbatugger
17-12-2013
Originally Posted by Monkseal:
“I think Abbey & Aljaz have the best on-floor chemistry as a pairing, but I wish she'd been stretched more in terms of what she's been asked to do. I think that might be why her Viennese Waltz is one of my favourite dances of hers, if not my favourite, because she needed to act a character (ie a bitch) (quiet, Anti-Abbeys). I just wish she'd had to do that more : she's definitely not had the level of bizarre themes that most of the others have had to adapt to.”

Yep, I agree, Aljaz is rather disappointing as a choreographer, bit dull

And, of course, nothing to hard was demanded of her by the ptb. Unlike poor bloody Ashley.
gillypanda
17-12-2013
Originally Posted by edy10:
“Can't wait !!!
I kept checking the blog to see if the review was already out .”

You should sign up for the email alert. Every time Monkseal posts a review, I get an email with a link so I get to read it very quickly
edy10
17-12-2013
Originally Posted by gillypanda:
“You should sign up for the email alert. Every time Monkseal posts a review, I get an email with a link so I get to read it very quickly ”

Ah, okay thanks
Jennifer_F
17-12-2013
Originally Posted by Monkseal:
“I think Abbey & Aljaz have the best on-floor chemistry as a pairing, but I wish she'd been stretched more in terms of what she's been asked to do. I think that might be why her Viennese Waltz is one of my favourite dances of hers, if not my favourite, because she needed to act a character (ie a bitch) (quiet, Anti-Abbeys). I just wish she'd had to do that more : she's definitely not had the level of bizarre themes that most of the others have had to adapt to.”

She has been given quite advanced choreography - for a beginner- and has coped with it very well indeed. I think Aljaz has got it right. Choreo should be challenging but not so much, that its impossible to do. Remembering that they have to do it all in a week, she has done very well. In fact, they all have done very well. Abbey, in my view does have a natural talent and flair for dance.
Rhumbatugger
17-12-2013
Originally Posted by Jennifer_F:
“I agree and disagree.If they ALL had the basics I would totally agree, but they don't. With the exception of Natalie....they all have fair Ballroom, loads of technical errors,bad footwork,some more back weighted than others, but as you say, because they are in the arms of the male Pro, can "fake " it a bit to the untrained eye. None of the other 3 girls are great at latin, so if you put these 3 on a level playing field, ie all got their faults in both styles but 1 - Abbey - is really revelling in the competition, giving it everything and showing her natural enjoyment, that, for me, must be one of the deciding factors.
We'll have to agree to disagree but appreciate your thoughts and viewpoint. Hope you enjoy the final”

At the end of the day, Jen, it's not really about the dancing.

Not after a while. It's about making it all look credible. I think Susanna and Sophie are equally committed, as is Natalie.

And they are enjoying it just as much. I don't think anyone can say that Susanna isn't showing her natural enjoyment do you?

So, if it's not really about the quality, (Nat wins) it's about FAKING the quality, so Nat doesn't look tooo robbed, and Abbey fans can feel she's WORTH the victory, and we don't get too many totally NOT the best winning, because that makes it all a load of tosh really.

Which I'm really feeling this year - tosh.
edy10
17-12-2013
Originally Posted by Jennifer_F:
“She has been given quite advanced choreography - for a beginner- and has coped with it very well indeed. I think Aljaz has got it right. Choreo should be challenging but not so much, that its impossible to do. Remembering that they have to do it all in a week, she has done very well. In fact, they all have done very well. Abbey, in my view does have a natural talent and flair for dance.”

I really think that he has been ACE with the choreography for his first year. I find it fresh,exciting and I love how he caters to his celebrity strengths while trying to hide the weaknesses.
I hope he's back next year
Jennifer_F
17-12-2013
Originally Posted by Rhumbatugger:
“At the end of the day, Jen, it's not really about the dancing.

Not after a while. It's about making it all look credible. I think Susanna and Sophie are equally committed, as is Natalie.

And they are enjoying it just as much. I don't think anyone can say that Susanna isn't showing her natural enjoyment do you?

So, if it's not really about the quality, (Nat wins) it's about FAKING the quality, so Nat doesn't look tooo robbed, and Abbey fans can feel she's WORTH the victory, and we don't get too many totally NOT the best winning, because that makes it all a load of tosh really.

Which I'm really feeling this year - tosh.”

Love that word - tosh !!
Love the banter Rhumba
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