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Natalie's Charleston was disappointing
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sey77
17-11-2013
I thought it was boring and lacked any pizazz... It definitely didn't seem a crowd pleaser like other Charleston's have.
scarlotti
17-11-2013
Superb - one of the best dances seen on Strictly.

As a Charleston it was so far removed from the usual jokey "monkey-step" dances that garner 10's in droves and way way beyond Sophie's dance in week 2.

Artem's choreography was bound to draw comparison with Josephine Baker - I expected it to come from Craig actually!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=064oYkj1LBw

is worth a look but just Google Josephine Baker for some great dances - some of the documentary material about her for an astonishing human being!!!!!
gcmac
17-11-2013
I would normally have expected more of her but Artem had injured his neck, he could hardly move it on ITT yesterday, so that would have effected some of the moves in the routine. I don't think it deserved 10s and I don't even think it was her best dance. 36 would have been a fair score.
davegold
17-11-2013
I think it was about a 36 too. Plenty of complexity, good but not perfect execution, some wow factor but not enough for a 10. Those overmarking judges probably boxed themselves into a corner with all those 10s earlier.
Mr Lawson
17-11-2013
Originally Posted by Minstrelgirl:
“I loved it. I thought it was a cool, stylised version of a Charleston and the speed was dictated by the music. I agree they were both protecting injuries and didn't go full out and the large floor can reduce the impact of the routine. Also agree with OP that Natalie would have been hammered by many if she had gone full out in her performance - dammed if she did and dammed if she didn't.”

Whilst she may have been hammered for that, every other dancer would have been hammered by the judges for timing issues, stompiness, kicks and flicks not extended, toes not pointed etc. It was good, but nothing more. With so many errors 10s were ridiculous.
boab34
17-11-2013
Originally Posted by Mr Lawson:
“Whilst she may have been hammered for that, every other dancer would have been hammered by the judges for timing issues, stompiness, kicks and flicks not extended, toes not pointed etc. It was good, but nothing more. With so many errors 10s were ridiculous.”

yes I wasn't expecting some of the weaknesses that you've highlighted because she's an excellent tap dancer and tap and Charleston share the same roots
Katenutzs
17-11-2013
Originally Posted by davegold:
“I think it was about a 36 too. Plenty of complexity, good but not perfect execution, some wow factor but not enough for a 10. Those overmarking judges probably boxed themselves into a corner with all those 10s earlier.”

I also agree the judges voted all wrong but it did lack oomph
shrinkingviolet
17-11-2013
I was really disappointed on the first viewing, but loved it after a rewatch. It didn't have the immediate impact I was expecting, and that combined with holding Natalie and Artem to a ridiculous standard led to my disappointment, but my initial reaction was completely unfair as it was an amazing routine, with lots of content that improves on each viewing. I just think she wasn't quite 100% on her game yet...if she were, everyone would have been blown away.
Cadiva
18-11-2013
Originally Posted by boab34:
“I'm no expert but I thought Natalie's Charleston was rather ponderous and slow at times and that flip looked labored

Anyone else thought the same?”

I have to disagree, it was a beautiful Josephine Baker-esque style, with lots of bendy, floppy legs, not so much of the traditional basic foot swivel but a more staccato interpretation of the movement and great switches between the modern music sections and the traditional music.
Her backflip was a tad awkward but that can only be expected, however she pulled it off.
The Charleston doesn't always have to be danced at 100 miles an hour, Natalie and Artem's was a modernistic updating of a traditional style and it worked for me.

Originally Posted by idetached:
“It can be danced to when you get the choreography right.

Derek and Amber from DWTS dancing to Bang Bang:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NbELDGw8MM”

Derek and Amber's wasn't a traditional Charleston either, there was plenty of modern jazz/hip/body popping (whatever the hell they call it these days) during the modern sections of the song and while I loved their performance, it also came in for criticism from the "fans" on the various DWTS forums.
peeve
18-11-2013
Originally Posted by Mr Lawson:
“Whilst she may have been hammered for that, every other dancer would have been hammered by the judges for timing issues, stompiness, kicks and flicks not extended, toes not pointed etc. It was good, but nothing more. With so many errors 10s were ridiculous.”

Herein lies the problem, I think. We really don't know enough about the dance steps in a Charleston. You mention stompiness, kicks and flicks not extended and pointed toes. Had Natalie exhibited these faults in the jive that she wasn't able to do last week, she would indeed have warranted criticism. But there are no 'kicks and flicks' in the Charleston, the toes don't have to be pointed and a certain floppiness (which might be interpreted as stompiness to the uninitiated) is required.

So where, precisely, were the errors? I agree that her timing was off on one or two occasions and the final trick lift was hesitant and inelegant, which is why I don't think it deserved 10s. But it was a bloody good Charleston, with masses of authentic moves and a real Josephine Baker feel to it. At least get a passing acquaintance with the requirements of the dance before criticising unfairly, please.
Cadiva
18-11-2013
Originally Posted by peeve:
“But there are no 'kicks and flicks' in the Charleston, the toes don't have to be pointed and a certain floppiness (which might be interpreted as stompiness to the uninitiated) is required.”

I was just about to post that the Charleston doesn't require pointed toes, kicks or flicks, so thanks for beating me to it

In direct contrast to the Jive, the Charleston should be danced with a floppy feel to it, with legs half bent and the ankles appearing to be like rubber and not in the slightest bit sharp.
Tennis-dancer
18-11-2013
Originally Posted by idetached:
“It can be danced to when you get the choreography right.

Derek and Amber from DWTS dancing to Bang Bang:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NbELDGw8MM”

That was clever because the music had the traditional charleston overlaid in it. Derek also put in more trad charleston steps.
I thought Natalie's costume made her look lumpen when she isn't at all, that didn't help. I had the feeling it was more carefully danced as if they were protecting against aggravating injuries. It wasn't her best dance but hey, she still got top marks
Cadiva
18-11-2013
Originally Posted by Tennis-dancer:
“That was clever because the music had the traditional charleston overlaid in it.”

The music was exactly the same
letsdance
18-11-2013
I didn't like it. Good, but not worth of that score. And please don't accuse me of being anti-Natalie: I think her dances have been the best every single week, and I really like her. For me though this dance didn't work, but I suspect it's more down to the choreography and choice of song (I hated the switch to modern music) than her ability.
holly berry
18-11-2013
I loved it - a refreshing take on a dance that can be a bit predictable on Strictly. I don't think any of the dances on Saturday were worth a 10 but this for me came closest because of its ambition and execution.
wazzyboy
18-11-2013
I felt that it had something of a showdance feel to it, because of the way it was presented, then again there were a few other dances like that on the night.
Tennis-dancer
18-11-2013
Originally Posted by Cadiva:
“The music was exactly the same ”

Was it oh may be the charleston element was louder then in the DWTS version, or did they use the original track rather than the wunnerful wunnerful singers? i dont know but it seemed more charleston-y than on Saturday sorry
rbdcay
18-11-2013
Originally Posted by Tennis-dancer:
“Was it oh may be the charleston element was louder then in the DWTS version, or did they use the original track rather than the wunnerful wunnerful singers? i dont know but it seemed more charleston-y than on Saturday sorry”

They used the original track. Our "wunnerful" singers as you put it I believe were the downfall of this dance a bit. Sorry that was a bit dramatic. I quite like this song and the original track is much better. The singers ruined this song for me because they sounded off key or the band was lacking something. I agree it was a good dance but my god did the music and singers ruin that song. They really ought not to touch any music created electronically as they always seem to mess that up.

This is why the dance seemed a bit slow and stompy to me and I am a Natalie fan.
Gingernut1
18-11-2013
I was a bit disappointed too - I wonder if it was the music....

Natalie is a good dancer and was a dancer up to the age of 19 - I wonder if its in the spirit of the program that someone with her training should be allowed to enter? Other contestants have to really work at it......
Heavenly
18-11-2013
I am no Natalie fan but I love a Charleston and was expecting a really good one but thought the song was all wrong and it didn't wow me at all.
DiamondBetty
18-11-2013
Originally Posted by Tennis-dancer:
“ Derek also put in more trad charleston”

Not so, I'm afraid! I spent most of Sunday afternoon counting the recognisable authentic steps in quite a few SCD/DWTS Charlestons and Natalie's came joint top with Kara's at 22.

In contrast Sophie had 8 and Chelsee only 5!
streetwise
18-11-2013
Originally Posted by Tennis-dancer:
“Was it oh may be the charleston element was louder then in the DWTS version, or did they use the original track rather than the wunnerful wunnerful singers? i dont know but it seemed more charleston-y than on Saturday sorry”

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the DWTS music is the original recording. The SCD version was Dave and the band. The original had more impact and danceability to me.
peach45
18-11-2013
I enjoyed it, more so on re-watches I have to say. I usually really dislike the Charleston but this one was really quirky and was so stylish. Problem was the order of the performances, the Paso was pretty rousing, whereas the Charleston had more of a cool laid-back vibe, so should probably have been on earlier.

Don't think anyone deserved a 10 though, apart from maybe Kevin
CaroUK
18-11-2013
I was expecting more from her.

Mind you I thought the choreography was a bit "off" the music at times though - had i been Atrem i'd have made more of the movenments coincide with the "bangs" in the lyrics.

Didn't think it was one of Natalie's best dances, and didn't deserve as high a score as she got - as has been mentioned - some of those lifts were very laboured
Tennis-dancer
18-11-2013
Originally Posted by DiamondBetty:
“Not so, I'm afraid! I spent most of Sunday afternoon counting the recognisable authentic steps in quite a few SCD/DWTS Charlestons and Natalie's came joint top with Kara's at 22.

In contrast Sophie had 8 and Chelsee only 5!”

That's dedication to the cause! I wonder what it was but the general feeling I've picked up from this thread is that quite a few people have had the reaction that there was something not quite there with the dance. It is nothing against Natalie but there was something about the routine .... Maybe it was the music, maybe it came over better live than on the TV, I don't know. I wanted to love it and be wowed but I wasn't. Shame.
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