And from today's Sophie V Charleston thread:
Originally Posted by DiamondBetty:
“OK, I've now youtubed both dances three times in a row.
Sophie's Charleston contained 8 different steps that genuinely belong in the dances of the period.
Natalie had performed 5 recognisable steps before she'd even left the podium and made it to 22 by the end of the number. Some of the steps Natalie did I have never seen on SCD before and those that come up all the time were much better than usual.
However, Natalie's was overproduced, too much distraction! And there were timing issues, caused in part by the disjointed song, and the odd fluff up too.
Sophie's had more airsteps, but some of them were very poor indeed, as hairy as Patrick and Anya's AS lifts in places. Brilliant "Pancake" though, more likeable atmosphere and song. Weight in the wrong places most of the time so poor technique over all... neither was a 10. I reckon Natalie is a point higher, so maybe Sophie a 7 and Natalie an 8.
(and I'm not an EXPERT either, but I am the nearest DS has to one in the particular area, maybe!)
Any nominations for a similar analysis of Charlestons past? DVO or Hollins perhaps?”
Originally Posted by marinamau:
“I am nowhere near you in expertness of the Charleston, but I felt exactly the same.
Sophie was extremly lucky of the feel and look of the dance and that it was week 2.
In purely aesthetic terms, Sophie's charleston was brilliant: she look strikingly beautiful (her hair, make up, dress spot on, imho pure perfection), the choreo and feel was very suited to Sophie's personality, and the music was spot on too. And it help that Sophie out-danced Brendan giving the impression that Sophie was actually better than she actually was.
The other factor is that by being on the second week and second charleston of the series, it meant that it had more impact, there is only Tony's to compared it to and who isnt going to win that battle?
But more importantly, the majority of viewers are still undecided about who is their favourite. Create a beautiful dance and voila, huge fan base created.
Both things combined (aesthetics and week 2) make a recipe for blindness favouritism. Ie, we all become subjective and don't see all the flaws on Sophie's dance and think her dance is the best thing since sliced bread.
The irony of this post is that I still like Sophie's charleston best as whole package, way more than Abbey's and a little better than Natalie's.
However, my personal preference of the dance doesnt imply that I can't that see that in terms of dancing and considering the difficulty of the steps danced, the scores of the judges are right. Natalie top, Abbey and then Sophie.”
Originally Posted by Sally Mander2:
“Thank you for creating an island of knowledge and impartiality to this thread ... although your assertion that Natalie's Charlston was overproduced is opinion and something that Artem & the judges would likely disagree with.
I thought the production was excellent but that is just my opinion. I did notice Natalie becoming extremely nervous for the back flip at the end & it was performed a little clumsily - but reading these threads I remembered she has a weak back which she needs to be careful with.
Personally I like Sophie's & Natalie's dancing. I feel that Sophie has more in there to give while Natalie already is accomplished but needs to make sure she doesn't break down (mechanically (her back) & physically (exhaustion))
Anyway I think we need to get back to the thread discussion:
... me but, you but, she but, pro-dancer, but he but, faking it, she but, bad back but, Brendan's butt, Artem's butt ...”
Originally Posted by biscuitfactory:
“Sorry, don't agree that Sophie's Charleston was better than Natalie's, and to suggest that Nat & Artem tried to copy Sophie is laughable.
Bruno was spot on when he said it was like watching a performance by Josephine Baker.She had loads of authentic Charleston moves in her dance and her body was fascinatingly 'rubbery', whereas Sophie was stiff as always.
However I don't think their Charleston was as good as Suzanna & Kevin's Paso, so I don't think it deserved equal marks with them.
I can't believe Craig didn't give that a 10.”
Originally Posted by
Smokeychan1:
“Nice idea for its own thread. As they were in the same year, I would like to nominate the Bastian and Hollins Charlestons for comparison. I never took to Ali's dancing, which why be why I didn't rate it quite as much as many did on this forum at the time. I'm aware it is a bit of an unfair comparison as Chris didn't have the dancing ability of either Ricky or Ali, but that's why it/he made such an impact.
A fairer comparison might be between Ali and Kara's Charleston. The two girls had comparable ability and suffered from the same mishaps in the earlier weeks. Plus both had the 'romance with Pro story' going during their time on the show 
”
Originally Posted by
Mambo Italiano:
“I'm back 
I really enjoyed Ali's (Brian was such a lovely dancer, wish he'd done more series!), more than Kara's - I kind of feel like Artem doesn't like the clumsiness that a Charleston should have and tries to make them too cool.
That's my obviously expert opinion 
”
Originally Posted by
DiamondBetty:
“I agree with all of this - except, I don't know much about Paso, Kevin's amazing jumps looked balletic to me (Inspired by the Ballet music?) do they belong in a Paso? They matched the mood very well...
I will start a thread but need to go to the shops before they shut. Blimmin' Sunday hours!
However i had a quick look at Ali's
14 recognisable steps, one performed so badly it made me genuinely LOL (The Windmill).
Similar in mood to Sophie's, cute and cool not gurny, but again, like Sophie her weight was often in the wrong place. Nice lifts, but none were the right kind for the dance. Pleasant though. No idea what the judges gave it but I'll say it's equal to Sophie's so my score would be 7.
Brian was much better than Brendan ”
Originally Posted by
Smokeychan1:
“Thank you for having a look. It was a week 11 dance, so scores were quite high - Blackpool high
According to wiki, Ali's total was 37. (10 from Alesha and 9s from Craig, Len and Bruno).”
Originally Posted by sonic157:
“But you have the right to decide what is more to your taste and Artem's dances are seldom to mine. I also think he pushes his partners too hard and that, combined with having a very driven partner like Natalie, contributed to her exhaustion. It was good to see Natalie dancing in a more relaxed way even though the dance itself was, for me, disappointing.
I was also underwhelmed by Abby's and her long legs were often splayed far apart.”
Originally Posted by
Mambo Italiano:
“Oh no, I completely agree (didn't make myself clear in my earlier post) - I like a goofy Charleston, Artem obviously likes a cool jazz-age one, each to our own 
(I probably shouldn't have said "should have" in my original post though, I meant "that I like it to have" )”
Originally Posted by Monkseal:
“I suspect that Artem choreographs his Charlestons specific to his celebrities personalities, as he should given that it's (as done on Strictly) primarily about acting and performance. Kara was a stylish, elegant dancer so that's how made her Charleston. Holly was very modern and sexy and hated cheesy gurning and retro stuff so he made hers set in a modern club. Natalie's a very gurny dancer and has the look of a Josephine Baker type, so that's where he drew inspiration from for hers. Fern Britton was mumsy and couldn't dance so he had her stomping around shoving an umbrella about.
I don't think it's got anything to do with his own attitude to the dance, regardless of how much fan wank there is about him being a capital-a Artist who's above it all.”
Originally Posted by sonic157:
“But that isn't how the judges score it. A great chunk of the marks goes for performance because these are all amateurs and are only learning to dance for 1i/2 minutes. If they weren't giving marks for performance, there is no way they could have given Mark such a high score. Natalie has to have - and I hadn't read anything about previous training before I saw it here - a high level of competency before she even goes into the training room. It spoils the competition to have someone who is so far ahead of the field.
There is also the argument about authenticity. If we are going that way, Ashley's paso should have scored much lower. Most of the audience judges on what they see. I have some knowledge of ballroom and latin but not of authentic charlestan but I'm sure I've seen professionals put in lots of lifts. On the basis of what I saw, it was Sophie, Natalie, Abby.”
Originally Posted by
DiamondBetty:
“You're absolutely right, dancing is an art though, so it's very hard to completely put aside opinion and gut feeling 
Anyway, to clarify, I think Natalie's Charleston was overproduced in comparison to Sophie's, which had cleaner lighting, simpler costumes and no extra dancers, which may have contributed to some folks preferences.
In terms of just celebrity dancer, quality of dance and difficulty of steps, but not choreo. sets, pros, etc, Natalie was much better, however I can see why some would enjoy Sophie much more.
Personally, I'm a big fan of Artem, he does push the boundaries and that's generally a good thing, in this instance though, Natalie's dancing absolutely could've stood up to scrutiny and I felt it was masked by a number of other factors, perhaps on purpose due to Natalie's situation from the previous week, perhaps due to Artem's injury, not sure.
As a comparison I've now counted up the authentic steps in Kara and Artem's Charleston and again it reaches 22. Kara is not executing them with the level of detail and isolation that Natalie achieved, but overall, the routine is rather charming, so still Natalie comes out as the better dancer, but the Kara is more enjoyable. for me.
Did someone mention Aljaz's bottom? ”
