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Who is the least crediable or undeserving of their A-list status as an actor ?


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Old 18-11-2013, 01:57
007Fusion
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I'm not sure myself but am interested in the criteria required.
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Old 18-11-2013, 02:14
Peter Venkman
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The untalented, annoying, punchable-face, Seth Rogen.

I dont think hes A, but some do.
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Old 18-11-2013, 08:43
td123
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Mark Wahlberg

I don't hate him or anything, just find his range extremely limited
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Old 18-11-2013, 09:02
Tony Tiger
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Johnny Depp is getting there. Whatever talent he may have once had is noticeably absent in pretty much every film he makes now.
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Old 18-11-2013, 09:08
theonlyweeman
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The untalented, annoying, punchable-face, Seth Rogen.

I dont think hes A, but some do.
I find Seth Rogen funny, but I think he's very Marmite. To call him untalented is nonsense, would he really have worked his way up from being a staff writer on Ali G (or would he even have become a staff writer on Ali G) if there wasn't anything there?
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Old 18-11-2013, 09:19
konebyvax
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Tom Cruise. Would be great in it if The Wooden Tops ever had a cinematic release.

Keanu Reeves. Soooo lucky to have been in such big films with such limited acting talent.
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Old 18-11-2013, 09:22
Takae
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Least credible actor:

Julia Roberts
Johnny Depp
Jennifer Aniston
Jeremy Renner
Cameron Diaz
Chris Pine (admittedly, for utterly shallow reasons. I just can't see past his trout pout and his caterpillar eyebrows)
edit: Jonah Hill. He was fine in Moneyball, but in everything else? Let me get a machete.

As for the most undeserving? Anyone can have a chance to become an A-list film star, so fair game to them if they manage to achieve that.
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Old 18-11-2013, 09:24
Callum_Brown
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Gerard Butler. Has he ever been in a properly decent film?
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Old 18-11-2013, 10:02
jeff_vader
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Re: criteria, I thought the main ones for A list status were:
* name above title/marquee
* can 'open' a movie on name alone (i.e., not their co-star's)
* films make money (majority of them anyway; allowed the odd dud)
* first call for directors and scripts

I personally wouldn't consider Renner, Butler, Aniston, Pine A-list, and even if so, yes, not the most credible.

Conversely, I do think Cruise and Keanu deserve their A status, even if not the greatest actors .

Jim Carrey was A-list, but seems to have slipped in recent years.
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Old 18-11-2013, 21:07
Cissy Fairfax
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Was Andie McDowell ever an A Lister? She comes to mind.

Had I been around at the time, Ive a feeling I would have been the only fan of Westerns who did not like John Wayne. His style never appealed to me.
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Old 19-11-2013, 00:02
dee123
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Who is TRULY A list these days? Some have A list name recognition and an A list body of work: Julia Roberts, Reese Witherspoon, Jennifer Aniston, Tom Hanks. Though these days all they seem to make is flops.
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Old 19-11-2013, 09:00
Big Boy Barry
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Ryan Reynolds
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Old 19-11-2013, 14:10
mrcynical
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I'm sure the A-list is based on box office pulling power. If an actor is in films which make the studios lots of money, they are marketed more aggressively. There maybe actors whose appeal is on the wane, and they perhaps no longer deserve to be considered A-list, but in theory, you shouldn't be able to get on the list without a degree of bankability.
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Old 19-11-2013, 14:27
mgvsmith
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Mark Wahlberg

I don't hate him or anything, just find his range extremely limited
You might say the same about Jason Statham but then I think Wahlberg is better than Statham, so what gives? I wouldn't be sure about Dwayne Johnson's credibility just yet.
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Old 19-11-2013, 15:08
Secret Treaties
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Is he A-list? Green Lantern, the film that was supposed to be his big breakout lead role, flopped at the box office, Denzel Washington was probably the pull for a lot of people who saw Safe House, same with Sandra Bullock in The Proposal, Turbo and The Croods weren't really hits because of who voiced them, and R.I.P.D. and The Change-Up both flopped, though Ryan Reynolds wasn't the only lead in those two films. I don't mind Ryan Reynolds. He's starred in a few good films over the years - Waiting, Paper Man, Aventureland, Just Friends. He's been tipped for big things for years now. I just don't think he's going to become the major box office pull that some people in Hollywood thought he would.
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Old 19-11-2013, 16:22
Parthenon
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Brad Pitt
Tom Cruise
Nicolas Cage
Kristen Stewart
Scarlett Johansson

First 5 that popped into my head.
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Old 19-11-2013, 16:57
hellesbelles
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According to Forbes both Channing Tatum and Adam Sandler make the highest paid actor lists.
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Old 19-11-2013, 17:44
konebyvax
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Adam Sandler is there because iirc he also produces the films he stars in/writes.
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Old 19-11-2013, 20:36
Takae
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Re: criteria, I thought the main ones for A list status were:
* name above title/marquee
* can 'open' a movie on name alone (i.e., not their co-star's)
* films make money (majority of them anyway; allowed the odd dud)
* first call for directors and scripts

I personally wouldn't consider Renner, Butler, Aniston, Pine A-list, and even if so, yes, not the most credible.

Conversely, I do think Cruise and Keanu deserve their A status, even if not the greatest actors .

Jim Carrey was A-list, but seems to have slipped in recent years.
IMO, there are three types of A-list:

1. bankability - a name becomes a brand that could prove it can attract considerably large slices of domestic and international markets.

2. recognition - a brand that's still widely recognised in pop culture, but no longer bankable as it once was.

3. package - there is a practice where an agent or agency picks one of their new clients - as the most potential to become bankable - as part of a package, which consists proven names, e.g. an actor, writer and/or director they represent.

Example: after signing on at his new agency (who apparently noticed him in The Midnight Meat Train), Bradley Cooper has been part of his agency's package that the others had to accept in order to get a director, actor or/and whomever they wanted in the first place. Accepting the package would mean giving a significant role to Cooper in their film, often bypassing the audition route; just so that they can have the ones they really wanted in said film. In other words, hiring Cooper was a guaranteed route to getting whomever was represented by Cooper's agency. This has made Cooper an industry A-lister for a while.

As far as I understand, each cycle of an agency's practice usually lasts five years. Regardless of the outcome (on whether Cooper's potential as a bankable actor is realised or not), an agency usually switches to a new investment in form of a new client to continue the practice. Not all actors benefit from this, and not all people in the industry like/approve this practice, but it's been around since the days of silent cinema.

Earliest best-known examples would be 'Fatty' Arbuckle, Mary Pickford, Charlie Chaplin, Hal Roach and Vilma Banksy, who had made hiring their protégé or favoured director or writer a contractual condition. Buster Keaton, Jack Benny and Bob Hope wouldn't have their start if it wasn't for Fatty Arbuckle. Didn't hurt that his 1919 salary was - in today's currency - roughly £45M, which gave him the clout. The most famous practitioners, though, were Marlene Dietrich and Mae West. Greta Garbo as well, I suppose, if we take John Gilbert (during the transition between silent and talkies) into account.

Actors' practice - a form of mentorship, if you like - was taken over by studios during the 1930s and they adapted it into what we know today: the studio system. From the 1970s onwards, agencies adopted and modified the practice as a method of pushing new clients who they believe have the most potential to be bankable. In spite of its flaws and headaches, it's apparently still the greatest way (in the U.S. at least) for one to have the best to become the best.

Long-winded as usual. Sorry about that.
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Old 19-11-2013, 22:39
Ginger Nut
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This may seem an obvious question but surely the actual A list is available on the interwebs somewhere so we can see who's actually on it?

Picking our Jeremy Renner for treatment, I worry when I see he is in a film. I don't believe I've seen him be anything but a bit average. Even in Avengers, what was he for? But anyway, if he is considered A-list then we're in trouble.
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Old 19-11-2013, 23:33
afx237vi
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Maybe I'm getting old, but I wouldn't recognise some of the people named in this thread if I was sat next to them on a bus!
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Old 19-11-2013, 23:49
theonlyweeman
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3. package - there is a practice where an agent or agency picks one of their new clients - as the most potential to become bankable - as part of a package, which consists proven names, e.g. an actor, writer and/or director they represent.

Example: after signing on at his new agency (who apparently noticed him in The Midnight Meat Train), Bradley Cooper has been part of his agency's package that the others had to accept in order to get a director, actor or/and whomever they wanted in the first place. Accepting the package would mean giving a significant role to Cooper in their film, often bypassing the audition route; just so that they can have the ones they really wanted in said film. In other words, hiring Cooper was a guaranteed route to getting whomever was represented by Cooper's agency. This has made Cooper an industry A-lister for a while.

As far as I understand, each cycle of an agency's practice usually lasts five years. Regardless of the outcome (on whether Cooper's potential as a bankable actor is realised or not), an agency usually switches to a new investment in form of a new client to continue the practice. Not all actors benefit from this, and not all people in the industry like/approve this practice, but it's been around since the days of silent cinema.
I don't know if you'll know this or not, but what if the director didn't want to work with the packaged actor? or the actor didn't want to work on the film?

Would they be forced into it to help the agent out?
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Old 20-11-2013, 05:31
jeff_vader
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So, according to Forbes, Hollywood top earners were (in $):

Robert Downey Jnr, 75m
Channing Tatum, 60m
Hugh Jackman, 55m
Mark Wahlberg, 52m
Dwayne Johnson, 42m
Leonardo DiCaprio, 39m
Adam Sandler, 37m
Tom Cruise, 35m
Denzel Washington, 33m
Liam Neeson, 32m
Angelina Jolie & Sarah Jessica Parker, 30m
Jennifer Aniston & Reese Witherspoon, 28m
Julia Roberts & Kristen Stewart, 20m
Katherine Heigl, 19m
Cameron Diaz, 18m
Sandra Bullock, 15m
Meryl Streep, 10m

Make of that what we will (the SJP ranking surprised me).
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Old 20-11-2013, 15:05
Takae
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I don't know if you'll know this or not, but what if the director didn't want to work with the packaged actor? or the actor didn't want to work on the film?

Would they be forced into it to help the agent out?
As far as I understand, most have no choice because producers have the final say. It's their investors' money that's on the line. If the director won't play along, he's replaced with another director. There are stories of directors being nasty to those actors during production, but I never know if any is true, though. As for actors, most tend to trust their agents enough to go with it.

It's not about helping the agent out. It's a film business. Basically, it's akin to futures or commodity trading. Each agency has a stable of commodities in form of actors, directors, writers, cinematographers, etc. Each agent looks after their own stable within the agency. Their profession is commission-based. That's as in, each earns a commission per contract. Higher a contract, bigger a commission. No contract, no commission. Each studio or producer has the money and a stable of whatever he needs to get a film made, marketed and sold.

When a producer wants Jennifer Lawrence and Bradley Cooper as they carry good value in selling a film, and they are with the same agency. The agency may say, "We'll negotiate to have Jennifer Lawrence and Cooper on board for your project, but only if you're willing to take on our latest rising-star actor, Eric Newstar. Otherwise, it'll cost you $10M more to have Lawrence and Cooper without Newstar."

The producer will have to decide whether to give a role to Newstar to have Lawrence and Cooper at usual rates, or risk spending another $10M on a hope that the film will make enough to recoup that extra cost.

In a different scenario, an agent is keen to have his client on board for an highly-anticipated SF action project, but the director won't have him unless the agent is willing to bring an expensive actor in as well at a reasonable rate. The director's producer backs him up.

The agent will have to decide whether it's worth pushing his new client at expense of his expensive client, who's not usually associated with that type of projects. Imagine Clint Eastwood in a SF action film. Will appearing in the SF action film damage his superstar client's brand/image? Will asking him to consider the unsuitable project piss the superstar client off enough to leave him and the agency for another agency?

In another different scenario, two actors decide they want to work together and instruct their agents to bag them a vehicle that would have them working together. Agents may create a package to convince producers of said vehicle to take those two actors on if the usual route doesn't work.

It's a game of gambling, persuasion, guesswork, calculations, politics and compromises, really. That's the gist of what I learnt and understood so far, anyway. A tad too messy and complicated for my taste, though.
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Old 21-11-2013, 14:56
scatcatcathy
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Out of that forbes list i'll go for Jennifer Aniston. I want to watch Marley and Me but can't because of her. Is Robert Pattison A-list? because I would suggest him as well.
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