Well this escalated quickly.

As far as I can see, no one in this thread has said Rebecca has to get or needs a nose job, merely that there are options open to people, both men and women if they think that may be a route for them to feel better about themselves. If not,then fair enough. Some people might love that option for themselves, others might think they don't want or need to. Both are valid for me.

The issue comes when people feel the need to denigrate someone else because of their own insecurities. As one rather wise poster said above, the whole thing WAS tedious. By all means have a conversation about the beauty industry but include everyone and don't single out one person because of their job or how they look.

That's only going to make the people doing the singling out look bad.

That was an interesting debate they had.

Lucy is a huge hypocrite though, she is trying to tell Amy that beauty pageants are bad because they promotes an ideal look/physique, but then she goes out and gets a boob job, which is the kind of thing that reinforces the situation (that bigger boobs are better) and then she tries to virtually blame Amy because she got herself bigger boobs.

I think the whole idea of a beauty pageant is pretty old fashioned and stupid because its 99% down to genetics, no one really earns it, or has to put alot of work into it.

I agree she shouldn't either, that was the one bit I did agree with

It was the point that Amy shouldn't be "bullied", but the OP can make a "well meaning remark" that Rebecca could stop her moaning and get a nose job - and yet, the posters who disagreed with this are the "bullies" and "nasty mean people". If that's what the OP thinks bullying is, I'm inclined to believe they've lived something of a sheltered life.

I've also got to point out if Lucy's so concerned about wrinkles then she needs to tone down on the sun beds. She's a beautiful woman but sun damage does wrinkles no favours.

I got the point the other women were making but at the end if you dont love yourself and accept yourself,as you are, happiness will elude you. Why do some women feel inadequate around very attractive women. What does it achieve. Why compare yourself, rejoice in your own individuality.

Be the best you can be and accept and like yourself as that. If you are overweight, lose it and exercise. Learn how to do your make-up flatteringly and learn how to dress for your figure and looks. Envy is not attractive.
Amy is very attractive in her way and Rebecca in hers. There is nothing more unattractive than insecurity and jealousy. There is nothing more attractive than self assurance and self acceptance.
Looks like poor Amy is being set up as the villain,as beautiful women often are, to rile up female viewers threatened by her looks.. Hope she does well in the trial, she is not responsible for Rebecca's insecurities, Rebecca is.

Good post.

I think that's very unfair on her.

I do agree with you and am a bit stunned that such an athlete like Rebecca has such low self esteem. You would think she'd be riding the crest of a wave (pardon the pun) in her situation.


I agree with you. Like I said before they ruined the possibility of an interesting discussion because they wanted to vent their own personal insecurities.

Looks like poor Amy is being set up as the villain,as beautiful women often are, to rile up female viewers threatened by her looks.. Hope she does well in the trial, she is not responsible for Rebecca's insecurities, Rebecca is.[/quote]

Good luck with that point I have posted similar over the years but and it wen down like a lead Balloon.

Although I agree with what you say about Lucy sounding a bit like a hypocrite she did go to great lengths to point out that it was things like beauty pageants and the media's obsession with looks which made her insecure about herself in the first place leading to her having a boob job and botox because she didn't feel good enough. She also said that she'd suffered massive insecurity when she was younger which is a fair point IMO (especially as she has a young daughter and must be a bit worried about her having a bad body image in the future as 'perfection' is constantly shoved down our throats whether it's real or photo-shopped!)

I think with her loud voice what Lucy was saying sounded more confrontational than it was actually meant to be but ultimately people like Amy, whether she realises it or not, with her chosen career is reinforcing the view that it doesn't matter what you can DO it's how you LOOK that counts.

Fair comment I thought and probably not the first time Amy has heard this. But to be fair to Amy she took it all in good grace, she could easily have burst into tears herself if she was a player to try and get sympathy but she didn't, fair play to her

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being good looking, it's how and IF you use those looks that matters I suppose.


Spot on. I've never heard many male sportsmen torn apart for their looks!


Great post. You could see how much poor Rebecca has been affected by the online abuse. I don't condone it but I can understand why she's so affected by someone like Amy in the camp as she's everything she thinks she should be then people would stop having a go at her Yet to me Rebecca is really attractive!


Exactly! Don't castigate the victim FGS, look at the people who think it's OK to say abusive (and bullying) things to her.





Nor does smoking.

I'd argue that the media influences society so that people who look like Amy find it easier to feel secure about their looks (because they are hailed as "beauty queens"), whilst people like Rebecca who don't find that image are deemed "average" in comparison.

Whilst I agree with the general sentiment that people should love themselves and accept who they are, it's easier said than done if you engage with most pop culture.

I agree, Rebecca shouldn't need to get a nose job to please judgemental people. By the same token, Amy shouldn't be made to feel unhappy because judgemental people are giving her some flack because of her natural beauty.

It isn't Amy's fault that she's naturally pretty and she seems a nice person on the inside as well.

I think Rebecca does have issues with her looks, but that isn't Amy's fault at all.

Oh I'm not discounting her own struggles and insecurities.

It's the fact that she believes modelling is the only place where looks are made the be all and end all. It seeps into all areas in showbiz and also areas of "normal" jobs.

The hypocritical aspect was that she is now herself a part of the showbiz industry and indulges in botox and other image conscious things which send out a certain image or message. She seems a mature and intelligent woman, so you'd think if her views were so strong and her experiences so bad that she'd want to change it for other girls and not work in and add to all this imagery.

Not just that but all of the lingerie shoots she's done for lads mags too. Just reeks of hypocrisy.

It's not down to Amy, or even models in general, to change this objectification of women, but the showbiz industry as a whole.

Lucy can talk of "the industry" as a foreign thing all she wants, but she is a part of it.

Perhaps you could find us a few of the hundreds and hundreds of tweets jeering at Amy for not having an Olympic gold medal that she has seen over the years? Thousands in fact, if you want to make it equivalent.

Talk about utterly missing the point.

Whatever did you imagine that they said? Especially Rebecca. Did you invent an entire conversation that no one else saw?

Who would dream of suggesting that it was? Surely people can understand the difference between blaming the way extreme beauty is normalized in the media (of which phenomenon beauty contests are a part) for making women feel unhappy about themselves, and blaming an individual for being beautiful. Which would indeed have been ridiculous if anyone had done it.

Wayne Rooney?? (though in his case, it's justified)

That's right. Take Strictly, for example. Everyone commented on Mark Ramprakash's prowess as a cricketer, Ben Cohen's rugby career and Louis Smith's Olympic medal. No one even noticed their physical appearance.

No one gave the slightest hint that Matt Dawson's physical appearance was different from Ramps', and Matt Dawson never made any mention of the fact that his physique didn't attract the same attention/admiration as Ramps'

What about David Beckham? Nary a mention - ever - of what he looks like. It's all about the football when people comment on Becks!

Wayne Rooney - never heard a single comment on his physical appearance, including his hairline.

And so on.

The fashion and beauty industry does portray an unrealistic - and for most unattainable - ideal of female beauty. And male beauty.

It has always been that way - although the 'ideals' change over the years.

The way forward is to give women (and men) the strength to be themselves, and to feel comfortable in their own skin.

Not to denigrate those who happen to meet the current 'ideal'. That's just as bad - IMO - as the criticisms and bullying of those who are different from the current 'ideal'.

I can see what you are trying to do, but I don't think it works. Rebecca has not been picked on for appearing less glamorous on Strictly Come Dancing: she has been picked on for not being as pretty AS AN ATHLETE as the kind of woman who is allowed to appear in the media normally. And Wayne Rooney is not a good example because he has always been all over Heat and Now and OK etc; he is judged as a male 'celebrity' and not as a sportsman. There are any number of male sports people on about the same sporting level as Rebecca who have never encountered a hostile word about their looks; as far as I can tell, no one ever dreamed of commenting on, for example, Mike Tindall's somewhat un-standard looks until he was all over the weekly magazines as a royal newbie.

Your comments are hypocritical. On the one hand you are saying people were picking on Amy because of her looks and then on the other hand you made a nasty bitchy remark about Rebecca based entirely on her looks. Make your mind up, its either right or its wrong. My opinion is that people should be judged by what they are like as a person rather than their looks, whether that be looks perceived as good or bad. Having said that I can see why this touched a nerve for Rebecca because teenage girls are far less charitable in their judgement of their peers than my view point. You are right that sometimes pretty girls get picked on by bullies who are jealous. However, IMO that is the exception more often than the rule. The reality is that someone considered physically unattractive for whatever reason, overweight, big nose, bad skin, wrong clothes is far more likely to be bullied over how they look than the girl considered to be pretty. Judging by Rebecca's reaction I bet her teenage years weren't much fun. If I could make the average teenage schoolgirl consider substance in a person over looks I would do that tomorrow but until that happens I would chose to be the 'pretty' girl in the school rather than the one with the big nose.

I'm not convinced male sports stars looks are criticised significantly less it's just a less sensitive thing (which is fair enough if men are not as sensitive to the issue of looks)

I mean, I'm sure Frankie Boyle has called Andy Murray ugly at one point and no one batted an eyelid (only speculating though)

just search 'ozil is ugly' (arsenal footballer), 'andy murray is ugly' and there will be loads of results on twitter.

I'm not saying it's unfair on men or anything but I think people just don't really notice a guys looks being mocked in the same way (again, possibly for good reason)

Well, setting aside the problem that it's not clear it IS 99% down to genetics, how is that different from talent?

I couldn't agree with you more. The hypocrisy from some people is astounding.

Not many sports people succeed by raw talent. I am pretty sure Rebecca practised for thousands of weary hours to get where she did. Presumably she had talent, but (missing reference - who recently wrote a popular book about what separates the good from the great?) - the biggest factor in achieving the top level in a demanding field like swimming is the amount of hours you put in. In the case of Amy - well, she has to tidy her eyebrows and condition her hair I guess.

I do see that being born beautiful is in the same category as being born with Susan Boyle's untrained voice, or being born to grow nearly 7ft tall and make it as a basketball player, but contrasing Amy with Rebecca is pretty clear-cut when you are looking at the role of luck in their success.

I know he was doing the treat task with Steve, but I would have been interested to hear what David would have said during this debate?He is a fashion designer but he is also a well spoken. thoughtful and intelligent man and it would have been interesting to hear what input he would have made as he has experience of working in a competitive industry where women are inevitably self conscious.

According to articles which I have read on this forum (maybe in the part dedicated to (Strictly) Rebecca has convinced herself that she didn't get onto Strictly because of her looks.

When it's more likely to be because of her height - there aren't enough sufficiently tall male professional dancers to go round...

Whatever the root cause of Rebecca's insecurities - and there's a good chance that they were already there before she was in the limelight - only she can resolve them from within. Once she has done that, she may be in a better place to take on the societal pressures - but right now she seems a bit too vulnerable to be doing that.

I also disagree with your view that sportsmen are not judged on their looks too. Perhaps not to the extent that sportswomen are, but it's there, and it's growing.

Speaking of sportswomen, it's interesting that the debate on the show didn't talk about sportswomen who do fit the more traditional 'ideal' in terms of appearance - and who appear in adverts, magazines etc in traditionally glamorous poses.

In terms of 'it's what you do that's important, not how you look', they appear to be on a winning double. Yet silent on the double standards.

Why, who has been hypocritical?