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Is IOS really as bad as claims make it out to be?


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Old 23-11-2013, 14:21
alanwarwic
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Motorola are claiming "You don’t have to hang up to send an email or turn off YouTube when you want to text" as being like it is something new

I know I have mentioned the very weird situation with not being able to use GPS with Airplane mode on IOS.
And Safari limits things to 'mobile view' unless the website visited allows otherwise.

But what is Motorola now getting at? Where is the lack of 'Talk and Surf'. Is it just IOS, just IOS on LTE. All LTE?
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Old 23-11-2013, 14:28
whoever,hey
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LTE in america doesn't do voice at all. It doesn't support it. It has to switch to 3G. Thats why it kills your battery.
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Old 23-11-2013, 14:43
alanwarwic
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Well talk is still normally 3G So there is nothing stopping the data from going LTE or 3G surely?
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Old 23-11-2013, 14:46
IslandNiles
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^^^

You can use data during a call on iOS, as long as you have a 3G signal. Same as for all platforms, as far as I know.
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Old 23-11-2013, 14:46
-ajm-
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I can use the phone and browse Internet on my iPhone. Provided I have 3G or wifi.
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Old 23-11-2013, 14:55
alan1302
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Motorola are claiming "You don’t have to hang up to send an email or turn off YouTube when you want to text" as being like it is something new
How have you gone from this from Motorola to talking about 'claims' about iOS?

Have you eaten ice cream and got brain freeze and just typed random phone related sentences?
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Old 23-11-2013, 14:58
alanwarwic
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Makes it sound like 'if connected to LTE' you have to turn on Wifi.

I don't think LTE here in the UK carries voice yet either.
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Old 23-11-2013, 15:03
tdenson
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I know I have mentioned the very weird situation with not being able to use GPS with Airplane mode on IOS.
There is a certain rationale to this in that there was a period where airlines prohibited the use of GPS in planes under the mistaken belief there could be a problem. There is a huge gulf between what is rational and what the airlines dictate. I used to train commercial pilots and sometimes I used the mobile phone part of my phone for texting from light aircraft with no discernible effect on the radio instruments (I hasten to add only when flying in conditions which didn't need the radio navigation aids).
There is also the point that although GPS is only a receiver, all radio receivers also transmit a certain amount of radiation.
My local Morrisons petrol station are still under the impression that using a mobile phone on the forecourt might cause an explosion. At the end of the day you have to abide by the rules that an organisation set. Apple are probably just being ultra cautious.
If you really want to use the GPS part of an iPhone in a plane then just switch off all the other radios manually.
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Old 23-11-2013, 15:08
IslandNiles
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There is a certain rationale to this in that there was a period where airlines prohibited the use of GPS in planes under the mistaken belief there could be a problem. There is a huge gulf between what is rational and what the airlines dictate. I used to train commercial pilots and sometimes I used the mobile phone part of my phone for texting from light aircraft with no discernible effect on the radio instruments (I hasten to add only when flying in conditions which didn't need the radio navigation aids).
There is also the point that although GPS is only a receiver, all radio receivers also transmit a certain amount of radiation.
My local Morrisons petrol station are still under the impression that using a mobile phone on the forecourt might cause an explosion. At the end of the day you have to abide by the rules that an organisation set. Apple are probably just being ultra cautious.
If you really want to use the GPS part of an iPhone in a plane then just switch off all the other radios manually.
I don't think it's just about being on a plane though. There are other circumstances where you might want to have Airplane Mode on, but switch GPS back on manually (as you can do with wifi). Like if you're abroad and want to use GPS for navigation using offline maps. For some reason, you have to have the mobile signal switched on, even if you haven't got or can't get a signal.

Anyway, it's not a major inconvenience and it's been done to death on here over several different threads. It's just a quirk of the way that iOS is designed.
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Old 23-11-2013, 15:43
alanwarwic
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...If you really want to use the GPS part of an iPhone .........then just switch off all the other radios manually.
I left out the 'flight of fancy'
But I thought you can't turn off cell calls without using IOS Airplane mode ! And dosn't IOS refuse to get a GPS fix without a phone/Wifi signal?

And best to avoid all LTE , including the S4.HTC One, Nexus 5 etc if you want to multi-task advanced stuff like calling and texting together ?
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Old 23-11-2013, 16:49
Lidtop2013
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Lol what did i just read, anyone care to translate it?
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Old 23-11-2013, 16:51
Esot-eric
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Where does LTE come into it? It's not in what you quoted and i'm not familiar with Motorola's claims.

The only thing i can think of where you can't use data and voice simultaneously has nothing to do with LTE but is a limitation of CDMA (and maybe only Verizon's implementation of it). There, a call will cut off your access to the data connection until the call has finished.
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Old 23-11-2013, 17:38
psionic
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EDGE has this limitation too. Only 3G allows simultaneous data and calls AFAIK.

This is nothing to do with iPhones BTW.
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Old 23-11-2013, 17:45
jchamier
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But what is Motorola now getting at? Where is the lack of 'Talk and Surf'.
The US have two network technologies for 2G and 3G (GSM and CDMA) and one technology for 4G (LTE).

2G - both GSM and CDMA - when talking no internet/data
3G - CDMA - when talking no internet/data
3G - GSM (UMTS) - when talking you have data

4G - LTE - talking doesn't use LTE, so the phone switches back to 3G, which means with CDMA networks you can't do data and talk at the same time.

However some physically large phones include TWO radio systems (expensive) and so can have LTE for data and CDMA for voice. I *think* the Samsung Galaxy S3 LTE and S4 might do this.

None of this affects anyone in Europe as all our networks use GSM 2G and 3G technology, and LTE for 4G.

This applies to *all* makes of phone, all operating systems, so iOS, Android, Windows Phone etc.

(Verizon and Sprint are the US CDMA networks, AT&T and T-Mobile are the US GSM networks).
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Old 23-11-2013, 17:57
qasdfdsaq
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Well it does affect us as we use GSM too for fallback off 4G and more often than not a call initiated on 4G ends up on 2G because 4G doesn't support calls and 3G fallback happens but fallup doesn't - so often I'm left without data while using voice.

The ability to use voice and data on 3G/4G networks could well be used as a unique selling point on a certain handset as by your own reckoning some handsets have two radios. So clearly it doesn't apply to all makes of phone when certain makes of phone have evidently got around it.
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Old 23-11-2013, 18:05
alanwarwic
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Seems both the CDMA S4 and the 5s have dual radios.
However the 2nd one on the iPhone is there solely to alleviate the signal problems caused by its case. The S4 one is there for seamless talk and surf.
Obviously, any leaving out a 2nd radio in the CDMA 5c is there so as not to appear to further downgrade functionality of the 5s.

I still do not get this Motorola advertising though(Moto G). We do not use CDMA in the UK. I wonder if it is carry over advertising from its cousin, the Moto X.
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Old 23-11-2013, 18:06
jchamier
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Well it does affect us as we use GSM too for fallback off 4G and more often than not a call initiated on 4G ends up on 2G because 4G doesn't support calls and 3G fallback happens but fallup doesn't - so often I'm left without data while using voice.
I was told that LTE fallback only goes to 3G not to 2G, but I can't find any reference. Around here I tend to have 4G then 3G but only in my mates house do i get 2G/GPRS.

The ability to use voice and data on 3G/4G networks could well be used as a unique selling point on a certain handset as by your own reckoning some handsets have two radios. So clearly it doesn't apply to all makes of phone when certain makes of phone have evidently got around it.
They have two radios in the USA due to the two technologies (CDMA and LTE) in use. I have no idea if they do that in the rest of the world. Apple devices don't have two radios, apparently because they're too small to fit two sets of antenna.
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Old 23-11-2013, 19:03
alanwarwic
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There is that all weird no 2G setting thing about the iPhone.
But apparently CDMA never allowed voice and data unless you have two antenna or the phone is SVDO capable.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SVDO
And it seems the CDMA Galaxy S3 is SVDO capable too. If that Moto G ad is in fact about that it sounds semi misleading.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6295/w...-svdo-support-

By the sound of that its a permanent thing on CDMA, even with LTE. I guess, getting away from metal phone 100% may let them change all that.
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Old 23-11-2013, 20:27
tdenson
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But I thought you can't turn off cell calls without using IOS Airplane mode ! And dosn't IOS refuse to get a GPS fix without a phone/Wifi signal?
You can switch off cellular easy enough and my understanding is that the GPS still works. I have an offline maps app that I often use when abroad with data roaming switched off.
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Old 23-11-2013, 20:29
jchamier
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Seems both the CDMA S4 and the 5s have dual radios.
However the 2nd one on the iPhone is there solely to alleviate the signal problems caused by its case. The S4 one is there for seamless talk and surf.[/Q]

There is no second RADIO in the iPhone, there is a second ANTENNA in the 4s, 5, 5c, 5s. This helps with holding a signal.

[q]Obviously, any leaving out a 2nd radio in the CDMA 5c is there so as not to appear to further downgrade functionality of the 5s.

I still do not get this Motorola advertising though(Moto G). We do not use CDMA in the UK. I wonder if it is carry over advertising from its cousin, the Moto X.
There is no such thing as a CDMA 5/5c/5s as they are all the same Qualcomm chip - the different models are tuned for different frequencies, and licensing.

My friend in the US has an iPhone 5 on Verizon USA (CDMA and LTE network), and he can use a UK nano SIM on Orange, O2 etc, and get DC-HSPA speeds.

A second radio (as fitted by Samsung) causes a LOT more battery drain. This was the original reason the first 4G LTE phones were huge, as they needed big batteries. The original Qualcomm LTE chip was designed for MiFi units and the phone makers used them to try and get a leap forward.

Surprisingly the general public liked the large screens, so the phone makers carried on!!
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Old 23-11-2013, 20:31
IslandNiles
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You can switch off cellular easy enough and my understanding is that the GPS still works. I have an offline maps app that I often use when abroad with data roaming switched off.
You can switch off mobile data but not the actual mobile signal, as far as I'm aware. Not if you want access to GPS.
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Old 23-11-2013, 20:32
jchamier
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There is that all weird no 2G setting thing about the iPhone.[/Q]

On my work Vodafone I can switch 3G off and have 2G only. On my EE personal phone I have only a 4G switch - its a single switch completely in the control of the network using the tools Apple provide them. There is only one switch. I guess to make things "simpler".

[Q]But apparently CDMA never allowed voice and data unless you have two antenna or the phone is SVDO capable.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SVDO
And it seems the CDMA Galaxy S3 is SVDO capable too. If that Moto G ad is in fact about that it sounds semi misleading.[/Q]

Its likely that Motorola (Google) as an American company are focused on their biggest network (Verizon) and don't worry about us in Europe.

[Q]By the sound of that its a permanent thing on CDMA, even with LTE. I guess, getting away from metal phone 100% may let them change all that.
Metal phone doesn't make a difference, but physical size does. Antenna need to be specific sizes for specific frequencies - its a laws of physics things, so you have limited space in a small phone design. One reason phones have been getting bigger of late.

VoLTE will in theory solve all the issues, as it changes voice to data packets, so the phone won't need to switch mode. Just the same as using Skype on 4G LTE.
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Old 23-11-2013, 20:38
alanwarwic
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A second radio (as fitted by Samsung) causes a LOT more battery drain...
You mean talk and text uses more power than only talk OR text.
If one is not in use it ain't exactly using much power. LTE itself sucks far more power.
I suspect with A T & T being priority, neglecting iPhone CDMA always helped with that A T & T contract negotiation.

And thinking about it, as it seems the likes of Verizon get a raw deal with Apple, the Moto X will obviously sell better with them.
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Old 23-11-2013, 23:00
Three
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Motorola are claiming "You don’t have to hang up to send an email or turn off YouTube when you want to text" as being like it is something new

I know I have mentioned the very weird situation with not being able to use GPS with Airplane mode on IOS.
And Safari limits things to 'mobile view' unless the website visited allows otherwise.

But what is Motorola now getting at? Where is the lack of 'Talk and Surf'. Is it just IOS, just IOS on LTE. All LTE?
You can send an email and browse and do pretty much whatever you want when in a call with an iPhone.

They're right in saying that you can't have YouTube playing whilst doing anything else. If you close the app then all stops playing. It was possible back in the days of iOS 5 (I think) but not any more.

LTE in america doesn't do voice at all. It doesn't support it. It has to switch to 3G. Thats why it kills your battery.
LTE her in the UK doesn't allow for calls at the moment so handsets fall back to 3G when making/receiving calls.
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Old 23-11-2013, 23:37
jchamier
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You mean talk and text uses more power than only talk OR text.
If one is not in use it ain't exactly using much power. LTE itself sucks far more power.
No, the fact you have two radios constantly talking to the network means they need to be using power.

I suspect with A T & T being priority, neglecting iPhone CDMA always helped with that A T & T contract negotiation.
Well if you're designing a new phone you build for the 3.5billion potential customers (GSM) than the 100million USA only ones. I read that Verizon paid Apple to develop the iPhone 4 CDMA after they lost a ton of high value customers to AT&T just for the handset.

And thinking about it, as it seems the likes of Verizon get a raw deal with Apple, the Moto X will obviously sell better with them.
Customers are fickle, and its not all about the technology. You cannot tell. Also in the US the networks mess around with every phone *except* the iPhone. They don't have prepay as we do in the UK (apart from T-Mobile) because the CDMA networks will only activate a phone they have sold originally with their firmware. Except the iPhone. Sadly android's "open" didn't fix the insanity of the US networks being too powerful.

Interesting the Verizon LTE SIM card works in non US devices, so one Verizon supports VoLTE then perhaps they will open up to any compatible phone working - the nicely open market we have in Europe.
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