Just discovered from a pic posted by KartemAddict in the B&K Appreciation thread that Bill Deamer and Kylie Cruickshanks who choreographed Sophie's Charleston have also choreographed Ben and Kristina's Charleston



Can't wait

Hhhhmmmmm, didn't Brendan claim that he and Sophie choreographed the routine together?

Brendan thanked Bill and Kylie on twitter after their Charleston

https://twitter.com/BrendanCole/stat...49996538781697

I'm sure they would have worked together and all had input.

You'd have to understand that they were choreographers to get the reference though. He just thanks a list of people. I'd look at that and think they had something to do with wardrobe and make-up.

Bill Deamer is an Olivier Award winning choreographer

You know that. Dance morons like me don't. Brendan definitely took the credit on ITT the following week.

I don't follow Brendan on Twitter, so I haven't seen that until now, but unless you knew that the people he named there were choreographers, how would you know that that was a 'thank you' for the choreo?

He definitely said on ITT that he and Sophie came up with the routine together. Following on from a few comments about the enforced themes/music, I'm beginning to wonder if the pro's have any real input at all anymore.


Ooops, snap, Alli ~ I've basically repeated what you said!

that was Brendan's first Charleston

I doubt he could have come up with such a fab routine without outside help from choreographers like Bill

Sophie and Brendan only had 8 different actual Charleston steps in their routine, in contrast, Natalie had 22.

I had high hopes for Ben at least in terms of authentic air steps, but now I'm expecting another charleston-lite. Shame.

Ben, much as I adore him, looked rough and heavy in training. Expecting a Peter Shilton-esque disaster.

Well, quite. There was a huge fuss about how amazing it was for his first competitive Charleston, and I suspected that they would have had outside help as so many of the pros do with dances like the Charleston and AT. I'm just surprised that he went on record as saying what he did, given that it wasn't true. Then again, maybe if it had been slated he'd have made sure to minimize the extent of his input

i won't mind as long as viewers like it as much as Sophie's

All I think we're trying to say is why hide it? we know that the pros don't dance AT or charleston and need help with the choreography, James was very up front about struggling with his charleston last year and some of the audience don't judge you for needing help, they judge you for taking credit for something that is not your own.

He says he did it. Seems he had some help. Dunno what that means really

‏@L********1 6 Oct
@TheBrendan_Cole does this mean the pros don't do all their own choreography?
Details

‏@BrendanCole 6 Oct
@L*********1 no it doesn't. I did the choreography for our charleston but a whole team is what makes good choreography and a concept great

‏@BrendanCole 6 Oct
@L********1 some get help with certain specialist dances. Arg tango, charleston for example but the pros do most of their own stuff

I don't know why people are making a fuss - the facts are clear.
Brendan did the choreography.
The whole team then helped to put the concept together.
He thanked them all on twitter at the time.

As he said, the pros get help with certain dances but it doesn't mean that the choreographer who helps them does the choreography from scratch.

Why did Brendan take the credit for the choreography then when Bruno congratulated him on it. They told us last year that the charleston always has external choreographers

I don't think it's clear at all.

James was given his charleston wholesale last year because he had to change some bits he couldn't do. He was very upfront about it.

I think they're more likely to be given the concept and choreography at the start. Maybe Brendan got his and changed enough of it that he considered it significantly different enough to be his own.

Who's making a fuss? We're simply discussing the matter, on a discussion forum. Brendan said that he and Sophie choreographed the routine, someone else says that other people choreographed it and have also choreographed B&K's charleston. It's an open secret that some dances have outside choreographers, and we're discussing that fact in the light of two seemingly conflicting statements, and given the surprise was expressed at the time about the brilliance of Brendan's first ever pro/celeb Charleston on the show.

Personally, I thought it was a brilliant routine, and I've watched it several times. But I'm curious about the extent of the external influences on the show, especially given that there have been several recent revelations which suggest that the extent of external/producer influence on the pros is increasingly insidious.

I think in this case it would be the other way round with Brendan doing the original choreography and the team helping him to put it together.

He wouldn't have said he did the choreography himself if he didn't as the other pros would have known and I don't believe he would lie about it. He acknowledged the help he got from Bill Deamer and the others on the team for putting the concept together and thanked them so he wasn't trying to take all the credit.

Why would the charleston team do that? I wouldn't think they'd have the time.

I always get the impression that the charleston choreographers have put together a number of routines ahead of time that the pros can choose from. Sort of pick your charleston off the rack that fits your celeb the best. That's almost how James explained it last year.

How would Brendan know what to do and choreograph anyway, he's never done a charleston? .

But can't prove it, we're going round in circles. I don't think Brendan was specific enough in his thanks or explanations, you do.

When I say 'making a fuss' I am referring to people saying he isn't telling the truth. I don't think it's fair to say that without knowing all the facts. None of us knows what goes on behind the scenes so I can only go by what Brendan has said and I don't think he would make that claim if it wasn't true. Of course they all get help from choregraphers - that's always been the case but there's a difference between helping and doing all the choreography from scratch.

I agree with you about the influence of the producers but they couldn't actually do the basic choregraphy but do suggest things like the bicycle last yearfor Brendan and the cowboy theme this year for Ola.

And neither had Sophie, to the best of my knowledge (though, hey, who knows what she gets up to in her spare time?) which is why I was super impressed with the routine, given that he said they had devised it together.

Let's be honest, we're never going to get to the bottom of who was responsible for exactly what aspect of each dance, and I'm sure the pros and those they collaborate with are gagged as to exactly how much they are allowed to say about what happens behind closed doors, but it's certainly intriguing when two seemingly contradictory versions of a story emerge. Social media stirs up a lot of hornet's nests.

Leaving aside the fact that I thought S&B's Charleston lacked content (in fact, had so little authentic Charleston in it that maybe Brendan could have done it himself, snark) I agree with Alli.

It's fine to have outside help on things that are outside of the pros remit. Just don't take credit for things you haven't actually done.

Brendan's lack of clarity and inconsistency suggests dishonesty.

Although one thing I'm curious about ~ where does choreography end and concept begin? If a routine had been fully choreographed by person A (which presumably includes stylistic elements as to how the routine would be danced, the emotion and character to be conveyed, etc), what is the 'concept' that person B would come in to layer on top? Genuine query ~ I've never choreographed a routine before, but surely the concept (i.e. character, storyline, emotion, etc.) comes from the choreography itself, rather than being something that a third party could add on afterwards once the choreography was set?