Why is Amy been picked on when we have Alfonso, Joey, Vincent, Mo, David who never seem to do anything.

Oh yes - I would anyway. I wasn't stating that she is 'entitled', just wondering if that might be what the problem is. I am starting to get that impression a little, although I know as well as you do that we don't see everything that goes on. In short, I think it's possible, but the jury is still out. I'm not particularly pro or anti Amy. I don't find her very interesting, and hanging about with Joey Essex was very offputting for me, but I'm not predisposed to dislike her just because she is good-looking.

To say her looks or profession having nothing to do with it is naieve IMO.You always see that relatively minor things (not getting enough logs/ daring to sleep too much/ reading emails past midnight etc) are used as a stick to bash these types of girls with. It it wasn't this, it would have been something else. As soon as she made any so called 'mistake' the speed at which people jump on her is remarkable.

The level of anti Amy sentiment on here is entirely disproportionate to the actual level of her 'crimes'. If this wasn't the case then we'd have the same level and volume of threads/ posts about a whole load of other camp mates not just the beauty queen. We don't.

It's not entirely down to her being pretty, but I'd say it's foolish to think it isn't at the very least a contributing factor.

What tends to happen in IAC and BB is that a few people start off by doing all the chores - they are clean and tidy people, they don't have anything else to do, they like feeling in control. Then after a while they start to feel a bit used - it is very different scurrying round cleaning up after yourself and doing it for a whole group whose sole contribution is dirtying everything up again. Hence the fact that one day we got a comment that Rebecca did all the washing up, and next day we saw her saying very firmly "Well I don't think I'm doing the washing up." I always think if I was on one of these shows I would be one of the neat freaks (though I am not in real life) because washing up would be less dull than listening to Alfonso giving showbiz advice, but even so I can see that it might get a bit much.

Oooh, a challenge. *thinks*

Perhaps because they are 'doing something'? The only evidence we have, apart from occasional one-second clips, is what the campmates say about each other. If someone is singled out without dissent as being less active, the most likely explanation is that they are less active. Amy did not disagree at all when it was suggested that she slept most of the day.

I'm not so sure.

Amy's job is DEPENDENT on her beauty and youth, she USES her beauty, it is her career.

Whether you think that's great, or not, isn't the issue.

However she is also perceived as USING her beauty elsewhere, as not having to 'muck in' perhaps, of 'expecting' to be indulged, BECAUSE of her beauty.

As she uses it as a job, the perception that she uses it all the time isn't really that hard to understand, even if it weren't totally the case - she's also young, perhaps she hasn't been expected to do much ever etc.

And she HAS displayed a level of disregard for others efforts (if the other commentators on her sloth is taken as evidence), and her expectation that Vincent should give up his bed to her, demonstrates a level of entitlement.

I wasn't witness to what happened over the 'beauty queen' stuff, but I don't think it's 'because she's pretty' that Lucy is annoyed (and others too), it's the perception they have, that she USES it to further her ends, to get what she wants.

Now some think - hey - why not, that's her choice.

But actually many people find it rather shallow and a bit contemptible.

There are plenty of beautiful people that don't employ their beauty as some sort of 'modus vivendi'.

And yet nobody said anything like this about Janice Dickinson, whose career was built on her looks.

I don't know who she is. Was she a Miss Universe?

Could you explain a bit further what you mean?

She was/ is a supermodel who was in the jungle a million years ago.

What I'm saying is everyone is judging Amy based mostly on looks, because that's all we can do as she's hardly a household name. It's not surprising that's happening, and I don't think she should be too surprised either. However I think there was an element of Lucy and Matthew in particular wanting her to be dumb so they could confirm their stereotype of what a beauty queen should be. That isn't the case, so now are going down the "lazy" route they wouldn't dare do to the people that have a hardcore following.

Hmmm. I have given up. All I could come up with was people taking the piss out of Tony Blackburn for wearing a wig. I must say I can't see why Amy shouldn't have her hair loose if she wants, assuming they do not introduce a task where they have to lean closely over a naked flame.

Thanks for explaining.

I don't know though, that this is the case - i find Amy a bit tiresome, so it's not beyond all understanding to me that others might too, even without some agenda to 'do her down'.

Don't get me wrong, I find her tiresome too, and if it wasn't for her being the centre of attention for all the wrong reasons, I don't think anyone would have much to say about her.

Janice was really funny, though. Although she had been beautiful, when she was in IAC, she was not included because of her looks but because of her outrageous personality. She was the star of that series. Those were the days when they bothered to include people who were funny*/eccentric/intelligent/interesting.

*And when I say 'funny', I don't mean 'stupid'.

It doesn't have to be; it just seems actually to be. And if she weren't so good looking, people might wonder if she was lazy or selfish if it seemed she didn't pull her weight; they'd be much less likely to say "entitled".


That doesn't really make sense. Even if she doesn't pull her weight, she could still be sweet; she needn't even be lazy. She certainly wouldn't have to be manipulative.

Even if she isn't as sweet and lovely as she seemed, that wouldn't mean she'd fooled anyone as some sort of deliberate deception. They might have just misread her, perhaps fooling themselves because of her looks, or in some other way,


If that's the perfect example, then I think the case is very weak. Why should she jump up just because Lucy said something? What's the rush that she had to do it then and there, rather than in her own time? Was the fire about to go out, or something?


I don't like the way they were commenting; and I have a problem generally with the way such shows can influence viewers. But the influence can also be against the show and what it said, causing people to believe it's false, or even that the opposite is true.

Janice was class.

The point is Janice still traded in her looks to get where she got to, and I doubt Lucy would have the balls to stand up to her and point that out. Yet she feels fine doing it to someone just starting out on her career, even to the point of saying that the beauty industry causes eating disorders.

Lawdy I would love to have Janice in there this year to hear that.

Not in a show like this. It shouldn't even be described like that. If should be: if we're shown someone being complained about, and we're not shown similar complaints about others, so that it seems they're being singled out, and we aren't shown any dissent ...

Janice was robbed...by none other than Christopher bloody Biggins if I recall correctly

I wouldn't blame her for not saying it to Janice, it would be like calling Ronnie Kray a 'fat poof'

Is any of that actually contrary to what AOTB said?

It looks like you have Amy's looks and profession as important factors -- which is entirely in line with AOTB's post -- and just add a specious rationale for that being ok, plus an opportunistic equivocation on "USES" to make it sound like she's an exploiter and manipulator.

Its not that she should jump to what Lucy said but I think you knew I didn't mean that.
Its about being a team. Lucy asks for help. Amy doesn't hear. (by Amys own mouth)

Because she's a decent person on realising that she didn't hear and Lucy needs helps, whilst she's had her feet up, she gets up to help her.
But of course as we know she didn't do the decent thing

Yes, that seems right. And it IS harder for someone to assert themselves when they are much younger than most of the others. I can think of better ways she could have handled them when they criticised her, but not necessarily ones I would have come up with when I was 21.


True. Lucy sounded like someone with a bottled up grievance more than someone making a reasonable request. The position of chores is a bit doubled edged in these games. People start off taking on the chores because it gives them influence, power or status in there (and because it gives them something to do), then abruptly feel resentful because they are hot and sweaty, toiling away, while other people are lying in the sun. It takes a bit of maturity or generosity to avoid the trap; it probably doesn't help that Kian is constantly showered with praise for doing the cooking, and I would be amazed if anyone is showered with praise for washing up.




I am pretty sure that this incident has done Lucy more harm than Amy. "Beautiful young model expecting to be waited on" is a common stereotype, but surely less toxic than "wicked queen hating her more beautiful stepdaughter".

I didn't, since your post said "If she really didn't hear why didn't she jump up to help then and do her bit."


I think it's more about using that as an excuse, justification, or smoke screen.


As if not jumping up to help then is a failure to do the decent thing. There's nothing about not hearing initially that means she ought to do what Lucy wants as soon as Lucy persists.

Yup, on this we agree.

And this I think is entirely wrong, although as you say others clearly can perceive it differently.

No one's saying that she might not use her looks in everyday life or in the jungle. People do this in the real world too. In the workplace, at a job interview, in a bar or club, when out shopping. You realise this right? It's nothing specific to her, and yet she get's slammed for it. The BIB is a perfect example of why many can see the criticism of her as being OTT. All the time? Really? Come on now.

Seriously?! This again is why people question the criticism of people like her on shows like this. You really think she asked him to give up his bed for her and, what she expected him to sleep on the floor? He is a grown man, he has the right to say, no. Secondly the so called 'level of entitlement' is just ridiculous assumption. Many people over the years have bed hopped, sat in other peoples beds etc. This again is a nothing unique to Amy, and is a perfect example of her being singled out for special comments, esp about relatively minor things that others would get away with.

I think Amy's beauty was a large contributing factor to Lucy's general demenour and how she spoke to her. If it wasn't an issue for her it would have been an open and equal conversation between 3 equal adults about the industry.
It wasn't.

And this is the problem. When attractive men use their looks, there is FAR less criticism. Why is this a problem for people? It really shouldn't be.

Again so what? It really shouldn't bother people regardless of which gender they are.
Why do people have such a problem with women who employ their beauty? THIS exactly highlights my points.

So unfortunately I have to spell it out.

Saying jumping up doesn't mean jumping to Lucys tune. That is what I didn't mean but you inferred.

I think that you are defending a little too much.

No one is perfect. There is good and bad in everyone.

Amy is not the worst but shes not the best either. Neither is Lucy. But Lucy doesn't deserve all this sniping to defend someone that hasn't pulled their weight.

You seem to spend a lot of time dissecting other peoples posts and defending Amy no matter what.

Interesting post AOTB, and on much, we agree.

I would take issue with a couple of points though.

Firstly, I think men that ONLY rely on their looks get pretty similar stick. It's actually a bit hard to think of one, perhaps Joey?

Male models don't appear in these things much, male beauty kings aren't featured much either. Therefore men are considered on their SKILL or fame in another way, as well as their looks. Even if people consider their looks to be the most important thing.

Help me out if you can think of exceptions.


And finally - the idea that women can use only their looks and that that is perfectly fine, is a very common one - sort of 'post feminist' - it's their choice and their life.

It is a bit contentious though, as the feminist movement - in the best sense - has tried to move society AWAY from this perception - that a woman's value is bound up in her looks.

Whilst this idea is obviously not working at all, that a girl should seek to promote herself solely for her looks remains an uncomfortable idea.

Of course there are other 'values', human ones, and many jobs that rely on looks also include skill and hard work - modelling for example isn't as easy as it's always made out to be. -

But still - do you think that idea should be promoted for young girls? Would you encourage a young girl to prioritise her looks over any other talent or skill she may develop?

I'm just reading "jump up to help then" as jump up to help then.


Well, I am spending a lot of time on this forum -- too much, really , and I'll soon have to stop for today -- and I respond to other people's posts, rather than post my own thing and ignore everyone else; and I have a style -- partly the way I quote posts piece-by-piece, partly an analytic approach to what's said -- that some like to call "dissecting".

But I certainly don't think Amy is perfect, and I don't spend all that much time 'defeding Amy' as such. It's more defending (or advancing) a point of view, one that's skeptical of complaints that a contestant doesn't pull their weight, and one that thinks good looking young women are often judged unfairly -- and are given only a tiny "margin of error" (a point made by AOTB recently in this forum, and by Villa years ago, during bb6.)

I don't there's even a issue of "defending Amy no matter what" at this point, since everything she's accused of is pretty trivial.