Thanks Nigel. I suppose what I was looking for was a PVR that was dependable and crashproof as the sky+ boxes (that might start another thread!) I already have freeview thro' 2 Sony D800Us with vcr recording and would like to switch to hard drive recording and ditch the Sonys albeit that they have been very dependable. Would I get the same service from either the Humax or Topfield?

Peter

Hi Peter. Looking at the Sky+ threads over the last 6 months there are a different issues that can affect people and reliability problems were recently highlighted on Watchdog. The only twin tuner freeview PVR that I remember seeing on Watchdog is the new Thomson PVR which is having a fair few teething troubles. I'm not saying you can expect better in terms of reliability from Freeview PVRs over Sky+ boxes. Not at all. However I expect on both platforms there is the potential for different issues to arrise, which will be discussed on boards, but the majority of owners may not ever experience them (except for maybe the new Thomson PVR at the minute - but the manufacturer is demonstrating that they are working on a programme of essential bug fixes).
Last edited by marcdavis : 21-03-2007 at 11:41

Well, as Marc says, Sky+ isn't without its troubles either - some people I know frequently curse theirs. I think either Topfield or Humax would be a more than adequate replacement.

Nigel.

Marc

See entry
"Machine suggests a possible 'second part' of your programme when scheduling a recording in EPG"

MyStuff TAP on the Toppy now automatically records both parts of a programme interupted by a news break etc.

Richard

Cool tap. Many thanks Richard.

The PVR table has 2 rows titled "Set personal reminders (e.g. birthdays)".

Its been like that for a while but the table will be updated soon.

Topfield:

Current firmware version 5.13.40, next firmware OTAs are detailed on Toppy.org.uk, but essentially it's more or less monthly until at least June.

Number of official public firmware versions is 17, not 7, if you include public betas.

If you just include versions that have been released as a major update then it's probably 9; if you include hotfixes it's about 11, and if you count (see, what does 'official public software version' actually mean?) versions that have been shipped on new equipment then it's probably 11.

I've never been quite sure how the figure of 7 in the table came about; even when 5.12.88 was the current latest, I make it 9, excluding public betas and urgent fixes.

Nigel.

Perhaps it should be the number available to anybody as listed on the company's site.

Well, that's not terribly reliable either. For example, can you download all those 6 versions for the Humax from their web site?

I know you can't download many of the versions from the Topfield site - or rather, they're there, but there are no public links to any except the latest ones that work on all TF5800s, regardless of tuner module. I presume Topfield did that so that they don't have the problem of people downloading a firmware and finding that it doesn't run on their unit.

But that doesn't mean that there have only been two firmware releases, does it?

That's the issue; I've seen people on this forum and elsewhere, for example, claim that the number of firmware releases over the lifespan of the product somehow proves either a) their favourite product has the most responsive manufacturer ever, in the whole world or b) their not-favourite product must have the buggiest firmware, or be orphaned, or something else.

Personally, counting firmwares seems to me to be one of the least reputable branches of statistics, but if the tables going to have numbers in there, it would help if they were clear about exactly what is being counted.

Nigel.

Oh, and another thing - the Toppy now comes with a 2 year warranty as standard. House of Fraser have had the 160Gb unit at 209.99 lately; it has, of course, been available in high street stores for quite some time, which the table doesn't seem to indicate.

The white Toppy is no longer available.

Also, further down, the "TopUp TV compatible" for Humax and Toppy should probably be changed to something like "Setanta compatible" I guess.

Nigel.

Totally agree with you on updates as a poor indicator i.e. how much was corrected in each update ... web accessed updates should not be counted only OTA updates.

I just wondered if the table was due for an update soon. I noticed a couple of things: The Humax forum link is not working; I may be wrong but I don't think the Panasonic 2-tuner PVR is available at all any more.
In fact I was advised that most manufacturers are withdrawing 2-tuner PVRs now that more people have TVs with one digital tuner in them. Is this true?
Any chance of putting the date of the last update on the speadsheet.

Who on earth advised you that? I can't think of anyone who's withdrawing twin tuner models, except the Panasonic, which had such a buggy start and got a bad reputation that I'd not be surprised if the people responsible have been shot.

Even with a digital tuner in the TV, a dual tuner PVR is well worth it - much more flexible, and of course you have the benefit of one interface for everything, not two.

A site update went 'wrong' last month so the spreadsheet format was reinstated. I'll make an update to the spreadsheet this weekend in the meantime.

I cant ever see manufacturers going back to single tuner PVRs now - although there is always room for a cheap PVR and I can see a single tuner model could be probably be market quite successfully - within a limit probably.

I see there are still places you can buy a Panasonic twin tuner PVR although the company that supports them seem to be still completely in the dark about the software update thats been delayed since last May. I wouldnt be suprised if the machine is still available in retail outlets but with production minimal or completely stopped at the manufacturing end already. Who knows. I remember reading a while ago somewhere on forums that they apparantly parked the development of the replacement PVR for a while due to the bad experience with the TUCTH100.

Hi Marc

This entry:

"Recording in standby i.e. audio & video is not output when a timer recording is started"

may be a little confusing. Certainly someone over on AVForums last week took it to mean that the PVR can start a timed recording when in standby. So a No means it cannot start a timed recording from standby. The Toppy has Nos (supplied by me probably) which is correct in terms of the "audio & video is not output when a timer recording is started" part of the description. (These double negatives get a bit confusing).
That is the Toppy does output video when a recording starts from standby and this can on some TVs switch you from the currently viewed material.

But as I say this could be interpreted as meaning you have to leave the Topfield fully on for a timed recording to kick in which is obviously not true of any PVRs.

Does any of that make any sense?

Perhaps one solution is the drop the "Recording in standby" part of the entry description. What do you think?

I think that is a good idea Richard. Thanks

Marc

When you update the table would you be able to include the digihome pvr80 or 160 as this is a twin tuner with the non official firmware?

cheers

It was my local HiFi dealer, who only do Panasonic anyway. They obviously got it wrong.

On the contrary, as I understand it from a friend of mine who has one, this is exactly how the Inverto used to work, although this has now been fixed with a software upgrade.
I thought that was what this entry meant - if not it definitely needs clarifying as now realise I don't understand what it means after all.

That's not true either AFAIK the Inverto has always been able to record in standby.

I think a slight change to the entry is needed in light of what Richard and Nigel have said. I can see why it was put in, but I dont think its a big deal. Some people have mentioned it as a bit of a bummer and others just see it as a quirk thats all. TBH I suppose anyone having problems with this PVR when it is in standby swithing on the TV in the middle of the night to carry out a recording, or interupting a DVD/gaming session being used on the TV can be easily overcome by carefully plying off the right pin in the scart socket or just leaving the machine fully on all the time. Its not like its going to burn anything out.
Last edited by marcdavis : 30-05-2007 at 13:15

I dont think the Toppy actually brings any TVs out of standby when it comes out of standby for a timed recording. Certainly does not do that to my TV. Just tried it with my Panasonic on standby and timed recording starting with the Toppy in standby; no problem. Toppy comes out of standby TV stays in standby. I always turn the TV off at night personally.

It does apparently (on some TVs) interupt a DVD playback etc when a timed recording starts and brings the Toppy out of standby. Personally never noticed it because I simply turn the Toppy on as a matter of course whenever I use the TV. Never occurred to me to do anything else actually.

Edit; if the Toppy is on timed recordings starting do not interupt your DVD/games session etc

HTH

How is it that the The Pioneer 550HX DVD recorder has an integrated digital Freeview tuner and a 160GB hard disk drive, which will give you up to 455 hours of recording time yet the Daewoo DSD-9503T (Freeview Set top Box With 160GB Hard Drive Twin Digital Tuner) which also has a 160GB hard disk only gives 80 hours of recording time; why the large difference in recording time?

In the main HDD recorders without DVDRs record the broadcast as transmitted with no compression; so you get very roughly one hour for every 2 Gbs and same quality as broadcast.
DVDRs have to have the abilty to compress to get stuff to fit on DVDs. So they can also use compression when recording to HDD. 455 hours on 160 Gb would be a lot of compression of course.