Congratulations "emsee" on an excellent document, looks like you've made yourself a full-time job!
Can I suggest that you add a section for machines which also have removable DVD (and if it's +R, -R, RAM or more than one type) so that it's possible to archive recordings.
Especially handy for people with camcorders and those who want to keep/share digital recordings.
I confess that I'm waiting for just such a machine. I'm looking forward to the Sony machines due in September (710) and October (910) and any others which may appear. I believe both Fusion and Toshiba are talked about.
Last edited by doverrog : 11-04-2005 at 18:09

Thanks for the info - I've now updated the table

Unfortunately, I don't think I've really got the time to do that! and it's a bit outside the scope of what I intended the page for.

There might be another willing volunteer out there who would be willing to create one though

I think your comparison chart is absolutely amazing. Congratulations!

I've been reading specialist magazines for the last 3 months in order to buy a DVD HDD recorder but I'm afraid the more I read, the less I understand and the more questions I have. They may be obvious to everybody else but I certainly am confused:

Do this machines record both digital and analogue chanels?
Can you record a programme on them while watching another?
Can you programme the timer to record, say, a month in advance?
How many programmes can you set the timer for?
Can you burn CD's on these machines as well as recording on the HDD?
What is dual tuner?
Can these machines do the same as the old VCRs or are there things they cannot do?

I don't know if this is the right place for my questions but if it isn't, perhaps someone would be kind enough to point me in the right direction.

No but all analogue channels are on digital anyway so...

As long as the box has two tuners, yes.

On the Thomson and Fusion you can manually set a timer for anytime in the future. The EPG has data for 14 days and you can set recordings from there more easily.[

I've never found a limit except the size of the hard disk. Mine is 40GB and allows up to about 17 hours to be set (some of the disk space is used for the 30 minute buffer on both tuners).

None of the ones I know of has any sort of optical drive fitted. There was a rumour of unreleased Fusions allowing an external hard disk to be added but there's been no mention of a release date for these yet. So, the answer is no.

It has two separate digital TV tuners in it. Each one can be tuned to a separate channel - so you can record one and watch one or record two and watch a previous recording from hard disk. Machines with only one tuner can only record the thing you're watching at the time.

They basically the next generation of devices.

Thank you, Trevorph, for answering my questions. I thought that forum members would probably find them too basic to waste their time on so I really appreciated it.

We do not have Sky so we only want the DVD recording facility for watching DVDs from the video shop (I'm asuming that is possible).

When you say that "The EPG has data for 14 days and you can set recordings from there more easily", is it still possible to set timer for more than 14 days ahead (even if it's not so easy)?

What do you do if you want to record something and watch it somewhare else? Do they really not make any machines that record on a CD/DVD as well?

Thanks for your patience.

For playback only you wouldn't need a recorder and could get away with a DVD player for about £25!

On the Thomson (the only one I can really comment on with a degree of familiarity) you can set a manual timer for any time you like. Never tried setting it for anything hugely in the future because the programming of TV isn't reliable enough to predict exactly what time a particular programme will start/end. I see no reason why it wouldn't work though.

Currently I do not believe there are combined PVR/DVD machines.You can buy separate DVD recorders and separate PVRs but I don't know of any that have both.

Thanks again.


Would it help if I kept my VCR or wouldn't it help once I'd connected the Freeview tuner to the TV.

I also wonder wether there would be any advantage having the Freeview tuner on the TV. Would I still be able to record one programme whilst watching another and could I then get an HDD DVD with a recording facility for CDs/DVDs?

One last thought - what about a dual tuner DVD recorder without HDD. Would it solve my problem?

Hope you're still keeping your patience.

Thanks.
Last edited by WebFan : 12-04-2005 at 21:33

You can record the output from the Thomson on anything you can connect to it by a SCART cable. It'll undergo a digital to analogue conversion on the way out of course and then, if you're recording to a DVD recorder an analogue to digital one again, If you're recording to VHS then you get back a worse recording still but probably still good.

I think you need to asses what it is that you want to do and what the various devices are capable of so that you can work out which bits you need to put together to get the end result. I don't think you can get everything in one box yet - though I suspect that everyone would like one (except perhaps the copyright holders of all the broadcast material!).

Well you're overlooking the extra channels you get from a freeview adapter and, if you're buying for the long term then you need to bear in mind that the analogue transmission system is due to be shutdown in a few (7 or 8 I think) years time

I heard that Panasonic are looking to add a Freeview tuner to their DVD/Hard Drive recorders as they update their range this year, to include other nice things like increase disk compatibility and a 1 second start up

Sounds good - lets hope there's some boxes out soon!

Emsee here are some more updates for the Topfield on your comparison sheet:

Number of timer entries: 70 (according to http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/...=209559&page=2)

Timer padding: Y (manually - by pressing the REC button twice instead of one you can choose to extend the time) and N (to automatically extend every timer by x minutes is not supplied by the firmware, but can be done with a TAP such as "timer extend")

Bookmarks: not until the firmware is updated/fixed

Noise level (recording): you can hear both spinning and seeking from several feet away, but i find these generally unobtrusive. Seek noise increases when two channels are being recorded.

Appearance: in my personal opinion, the topfield looks better than the inverto - but you will never get agreement on this!

Emsee, thanks for the excellent comparison chart.

Would you consider adding the Humax PVR-9200T(Twin Tuner PVR)? Their website now claims that it "will be available around the middle of this year" and their recent release of the LGB32-TPVR (LCD with integrated dual-tuner PVR) suggests that they do, indeed, have this technology ready to go.

They also have a dual-tuner Satellite PVR, the PVR-9100 that I guess will share many of the same features and limitations with the DTT machine, perhaps you could provisionally base your comparison details on that and the TV.

I, and I'm sure others, would find this very useful, especially with the FVRT200 apparently about to be released.

Thanks again for the invaluable resource you've created.

Thanks - I've now updated the chart

Just done another update and added am now including a list of bugs along with the "con's".

I haven't had a chance to keep up with all the bugs for all the PVR's covered in the table so if I've missed anything out, let me know.

Dual-tuner PVR comparison

seems to be a chunk of the table that i can no longer see?

Gary

The bit you've updated is no longer shown

Oops

OK - its fixed now

Emsee, any chance of a response on my request that the upcoming Humax dual-tuner be included? Thanks.

I've only had a chance to have a quick look at their website so far, but I'll try to add it in th near future, though there don't seem to be any specs for that model. Have humax themselves indicated that it will have a similar spec to the satalite version?

Hi emsee.

A couple of the Topfield Links could be updated to refer to the UK model (TF5800PVR). The manufacturers website is http://www.topfield.co.kr the product page is http://www.topfield.co.kr/product_e/...pn=TF5800PVR#p and the UK manual can be found in at http://www.toppy.org.uk/documents/TF...ng%20v1.02.pdf

Thanks.


No, just speculation in another thread, sparked by the intro of the Humax TV with dual-tuners, we figured that, if they'd nailed the technological hurdles with the TV, they'd probably be taking the same approach with the PVR, thought that might be likely enough to warrant some (?) entries in your chart.

Thanks again.

I am seriously considering buying a Freeview PVR.
I already have a Panasonic TU-20 and get very good reception on all channels. My current aerial set-up is aimed at both Hannington and Crystal Palace so I get both flavours of BBC1 and ITV1 stored as separate channels on the Panasonic but only one copy of channels such as Channel 4 and the radio channels which do not vary between transmitters. I find this facility useful and do not want to have to abandon reception from one of these transmitters.

My first question is whether a PVR will be able to operate accurately in a situation where programmes are coming in from 2 separate sources. Will it detect and store both versions of BBC1 for example?

Secondly will any PVR that I get be able to pick up an accurate EPG that ideally covers both transmitters (although I would settle for an EPG that accurately covers just one of them)?

As a third question would anyone recommend a particular version of the EPG as being better able to cope with the situation that I describe as that would influence my decision on which PVR's to consider?

The Topfield (allegedly) will store all channels found (although I'm not sure if you can sort which of the "duplicates" gets to use the LCN). I don't have any duplicates on my setup so I don't know how it would handle the Freeview EPG data (my guess is it would get it correct as it gets most of the data from the mux (i.e. UHF channel) of the currently/previously selected channels (a niggle on the Toppy is it changes channels as you navigate in the EPG).

I can't comment on the channel storing or 4TV EPG bahaviour on other PVRs.

Is it possible to put the model on the heading lines as well as at the top? By the time you are half way down its difficult to remember whcih is which box.