Is Artem deliberately going out if his way to create mischief/controversy? He clearly hates being in hold and this has spoiled Natalie's Quickstep, Viennese Waltz and American Smooth. He feels that being in hold inhibits his creative genius apparently; he can't express himself properly without being all floaty and ethereal at every given moment. What rot. I feel like he's just doing it for attention now and Natalie is the one who's paying for it. Enough is enough. It should be about the celebrity, not the pro's considerable ego.
Artem's choreography
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Artem is a brilliant choreographer and anyone who can't see that doesn't know anything about dance. He's trying to please the public by creating an exciting story. He knows that's how you stay in the competition. He is also challenging and showcasing Natalie as she's a great dancer. Near the final he will start pleasing the judges with traditional dances.
Natalie & Artem are so far ahead (in terms purely of the dancing competition) that he must be doing a lot more right than wrong.
Of course it helps that she's possibly the best ever celeb dancer on the show but I think he's doing a blinding job with her.
Of course it helps that she's possibly the best ever celeb dancer on the show but I think he's doing a blinding job with her.
Originally Posted by Liza with a Zee:
“Artem is a brilliant choreographer and anyone who can't see that doesn't know anything about dance. He's trying to please the public by creating an exciting story. He knows that's how you stay in the competition. He is also challenging and showcasing Natalie as she's a great dancer..”
“Artem is a brilliant choreographer and anyone who can't see that doesn't know anything about dance. He's trying to please the public by creating an exciting story. He knows that's how you stay in the competition. He is also challenging and showcasing Natalie as she's a great dancer..”
Yes, but what about the basic requirements of the dance? It is not simply all about the choreography.
Originally Posted by Liza with a Zee:
“Artem is a brilliant choreographer and anyone who can't see that doesn't know anything about dance. He's trying to please the public by creating an exciting story. He knows that's how you stay in the competition. He is also challenging and showcasing Natalie as she's a great dancer. Near the final he will start pleasing the judges with traditional dances.”
“Artem is a brilliant choreographer and anyone who can't see that doesn't know anything about dance. He's trying to please the public by creating an exciting story. He knows that's how you stay in the competition. He is also challenging and showcasing Natalie as she's a great dancer. Near the final he will start pleasing the judges with traditional dances.”
There's no need to be so defensive or borderline rude, thanks.
It's perfectly possible to choreograph traditional dances that still appeal to the public, as has been shown time and again on Strictly. Many of Artem's Ballroom dances have been more Freestyle than anything else, which is a huge cop out.
They are supposed to be far ahead Arcana and I firmly believe that they will be in the final. But until they are in a dance off, or in that final we can't know if they are popular with the public can we? The judges adore them, but as we saw with Denise Van Outen (sp?) when it came to public only voting for the winner, they lost.
Originally Posted by mossy2103:
“Yes, but what about the basic requirements of the dance? It is not simply all about the choreography.”
“Yes, but what about the basic requirements of the dance? It is not simply all about the choreography.”
You're correct it's not. Artem has kept her in even though she's possibly not that popular. I do agree he is not fulfilling the requirements of most dances, however he is making the dances wonderful and he is not being penalised by the judges. If the judges want dancers to stick to American smooth foxtrot or Vienesse waltz then the should penalise them heavily and make professionals aware that's what's going to happen.
Originally Posted by j4Rose:
“There's no need to be so defensive or borderline rude, thanks.
It's perfectly possible to choreograph traditional dances that still appeal to the public, as has been shown time and again on Strictly. Many of Artem's Ballroom dances have been more Freestyle than anything else, which is a huge cop out.”
“There's no need to be so defensive or borderline rude, thanks.
It's perfectly possible to choreograph traditional dances that still appeal to the public, as has been shown time and again on Strictly. Many of Artem's Ballroom dances have been more Freestyle than anything else, which is a huge cop out.”
Exactly they've been shown time and time again. I think the public want exciting modern twists to dances.
Originally Posted by j4Rose:
“There's no need to be so defensive or borderline rude, thanks.
It's perfectly possible to choreograph traditional dances that still appeal to the public, as has been shown time and again on Strictly. Many of Artem's Ballroom dances have been more Freestyle than anything else, which is a huge cop out.”
“There's no need to be so defensive or borderline rude, thanks.
It's perfectly possible to choreograph traditional dances that still appeal to the public, as has been shown time and again on Strictly. Many of Artem's Ballroom dances have been more Freestyle than anything else, which is a huge cop out.”
Personally I don't think it's a cop out or anything to do with Artem's ego, as he said himself he wants to tell a story, which he is amazing at. Again personally, I miss the traditional style, lots of us watching are not dancers ourselves, or have any connection to the world of dancing, we just like to watch. Len has intimated to Artem (and others) on more than one occasion that he will always mark down if there is not enough of the dance in hold, have to admit I do smile when he gives a 7 or an 8 and Bruno follows up with a Ten ...
Originally Posted by Sally_Scott:
“They are supposed to be far ahead Arcana and I firmly believe that they will be in the final. But until they are in a dance off, or in that final we can't know if they are popular with the public can we? The judges adore them, but as we saw with Denise Van Outen (sp?) when it came to public only voting for the winner, they lost.”
“They are supposed to be far ahead Arcana and I firmly believe that they will be in the final. But until they are in a dance off, or in that final we can't know if they are popular with the public can we? The judges adore them, but as we saw with Denise Van Outen (sp?) when it came to public only voting for the winner, they lost.”
The judges can see what's blatantly obvious that they're shed and holders above all the rest but I'm addressing the point of the thread which is Artem's choreography.
And if a couple is producing quality dance after quality dance I figure there can't be too much wrong with it.
Originally Posted by Liza with a Zee:
“You're correct it's not. Artem has kept her in even though she's possibly not that popular. I do agree he is not fulfilling the requirements of most dances, however he is making the dances wonderful and he is not being penalised by the judges. If the judges want dancers to stick to American smooth foxtrot or Vienesse waltz then the should penalise them heavily and make professionals aware that's what's going to happen.”
“You're correct it's not. Artem has kept her in even though she's possibly not that popular. I do agree he is not fulfilling the requirements of most dances, however he is making the dances wonderful and he is not being penalised by the judges. If the judges want dancers to stick to American smooth foxtrot or Vienesse waltz then the should penalise them heavily and make professionals aware that's what's going to happen.”
Oh I agree that the judges should be more strict in their marking, but that still does not excuse what Artem does. And it doesn't help when the audience boo just because one judge does apply those stricter rules.
Otherwise, we end up with a succession of American Smooths "in the style of ..." or a plethora of showdances where the dance theme is barely discernible.
Originally Posted by Liza with a Zee:
“Artem is a brilliant choreographer and anyone who can't see that doesn't know anything about dance. He's trying to please the public by creating an exciting story. He knows that's how you stay in the competition. He is also challenging and showcasing Natalie as she's a great dancer. Near the final he will start pleasing the judges with traditional dances.”
“Artem is a brilliant choreographer and anyone who can't see that doesn't know anything about dance. He's trying to please the public by creating an exciting story. He knows that's how you stay in the competition. He is also challenging and showcasing Natalie as she's a great dancer. Near the final he will start pleasing the judges with traditional dances.”
For contemporary routines maybe but some of his ballroom dances are unrecognisable.
Originally Posted by Tissy:
“For contemporary routines maybe but some of his ballroom dances are unrecognisable.”
“For contemporary routines maybe but some of his ballroom dances are unrecognisable.”
His "Vienese Waltz" was a prime example.
I have long thought that Artem breaks all the rules, of Ballroom anyway. Plus I am surprised at how he gets away with it. I realise that this isn't strictly a Ballroom/Latin comp, but when they are given a dance, VW for example, it should be a VW not contemporary or American Smooth. Their QS was the same, not a QS. Not Natalies fault of course, but Artem's. I wonder why Len, in particular is not mentioning it anymore, as I'm sure he used to.
Each Ballroom dance has its own distinct characteristics, and someone that knows what they are looking for, could tell the dance with the sound muted, ie difference between Waltz and Fox, by different body flight etc. With Artems choreo, aside from Tango which has different stance and hold, it would be hard to tell the dances apart, except for Qs .
Each Ballroom dance has its own distinct characteristics, and someone that knows what they are looking for, could tell the dance with the sound muted, ie difference between Waltz and Fox, by different body flight etc. With Artems choreo, aside from Tango which has different stance and hold, it would be hard to tell the dances apart, except for Qs .
Originally Posted by Jennifer_F:
“I have long thought that Artem breaks all the rules, of Ballroom anyway. Plus I am surprised at how he gets away with it. I realise that this isn't strictly a Ballroom/Latin comp, but when they are given a dance, VW for example, it should be a VW not contemporary or American Smooth. Their QS was the same, not a QS. Not Natalies fault of course, but Artem's. I wonder why Len, in particular is not mentioning it anymore, as I'm sure he used to.
Each Ballroom dance has its own distinct characteristics, and someone that knows what they are looking for, could tell the dance with the sound muted, ie difference between Waltz and Fox, by different body flight etc. With Artems choreo, aside from Tango which has different stance and hold, it would be hard to tell the dances apart, except for Qs .”
“I have long thought that Artem breaks all the rules, of Ballroom anyway. Plus I am surprised at how he gets away with it. I realise that this isn't strictly a Ballroom/Latin comp, but when they are given a dance, VW for example, it should be a VW not contemporary or American Smooth. Their QS was the same, not a QS. Not Natalies fault of course, but Artem's. I wonder why Len, in particular is not mentioning it anymore, as I'm sure he used to.
Each Ballroom dance has its own distinct characteristics, and someone that knows what they are looking for, could tell the dance with the sound muted, ie difference between Waltz and Fox, by different body flight etc. With Artems choreo, aside from Tango which has different stance and hold, it would be hard to tell the dances apart, except for Qs .”
Len did score them an 8 tonight ... then that fool on the end gave a 10
So, are they judging Artem's choreography or Natalie's dancing?
I'd say it's easier to dance in hold and cover up mistakes with balance etc, then dancing a perfect freestyle dance and show just how amazingly good you are.
She was perfect. Period. Her arms alone were worth 4 10s.
I'd say it's easier to dance in hold and cover up mistakes with balance etc, then dancing a perfect freestyle dance and show just how amazingly good you are.
She was perfect. Period. Her arms alone were worth 4 10s.
Originally Posted by Socha:
“So, are they judging Artem's choreography or Natalie's dancing?
I'd say it's easier to dance in hold and cover up mistakes with balance etc, then dancing a perfect freestyle dance and show just how amazingly good you are.
She was perfect. Period. Her arms alone were worth 4 10s.”
“So, are they judging Artem's choreography or Natalie's dancing?
I'd say it's easier to dance in hold and cover up mistakes with balance etc, then dancing a perfect freestyle dance and show just how amazingly good you are.
She was perfect. Period. Her arms alone were worth 4 10s.”
Both but were also judging an AS not a freestyle dance.
Originally Posted by Tissy:
“Both but were also judging an AS not a freestyle dance.”
“Both but were also judging an AS not a freestyle dance.”
I agree. They should be judging the celebrity, but how can they judge an AS that has practically no time in hold? I think Artem is letting Natalie down, as her Ballroom dances could be both traditional and stunning.
Originally Posted by j4Rose:
“There's no need to be so defensive or borderline rude, thanks.
It's perfectly possible to choreograph traditional dances that still appeal to the public, as has been shown time and again on Strictly. Many of Artem's Ballroom dances have been more Freestyle than anything else, which is a huge cop out.”
“There's no need to be so defensive or borderline rude, thanks.
It's perfectly possible to choreograph traditional dances that still appeal to the public, as has been shown time and again on Strictly. Many of Artem's Ballroom dances have been more Freestyle than anything else, which is a huge cop out.”
Artem's 'dances' may appeal to a section of the public but those who want to see a proper ballroom dance will not be impressed. Storytelling is only one factor. the judges decide by the week which factor - technicality, performance, storytelling etc. - they are going to put first. Last night it was performance (their most preferred factor). hence Abby got 40 for a salsa that was only a salsa for a few bars of music.
I think Artem is contemptuous of Ballroom.
He seems to prefer to waft & faff rather than do proper dances.
Last night Sophie's VW was packed with with proper steps & turns & was fantastic.
Save the showdances for the final & they will have far more impact.
He seems to prefer to waft & faff rather than do proper dances.
Last night Sophie's VW was packed with with proper steps & turns & was fantastic.
Save the showdances for the final & they will have far more impact.
Actually I truly believe its far harder to dance properly in hold. Contrary to what most think, the lady should not be supported by the man, as a lady you have your own job to do and are responsible for your own balance, shape, styling and movement. You have to keep balance, keep perfect poise (head work) and perfect posture, keeping back and sides up to your partner, weight towards your partner all the time even when you are moving backwards.Graceful styling of left hand, arms weightless..list is endless, all this and smiling too. Not to mention the technical side, ie whether you use inside or outside edge of foot in tango etc.Keeping contact is harder than it looks especially in QS where there is a lot of hops, skips etc. Very little of the complex side of Ballroom is ever mentioned. Compare this with side by side work - however beautiful it may look - wafting of arms...no comparison in my book.
Last edited by Jennifer_F : 01-12-2013 at 08:41
Last edited by Jennifer_F : 01-12-2013 at 08:41
Artem has always preferred to tell the story rather than stick to the style and with Natalie it works brilliantly. It makes sure she never gets the perfect score, because for one reason or another the dances are never perfect according to this or that judge.
Perfect scores usually end up as a millstone and a hindrance as far as the public are concerned. Whilst the fans may be happy their favourite scored a full house, it rallies the anti vote.
Perfect scores usually end up as a millstone and a hindrance as far as the public are concerned. Whilst the fans may be happy their favourite scored a full house, it rallies the anti vote.
Originally Posted by sonic157:
“Artem's 'dances' may appeal to a section of the public but those who want to see a proper ballroom dance will not be impressed. Storytelling is only one factor. the judges decide by the week which factor - technicality, performance, storytelling etc. - they are going to put first. Last night it was performance (their most preferred factor). hence Abby got 40 for a salsa that was only a salsa for a few bars of music.”
“Artem's 'dances' may appeal to a section of the public but those who want to see a proper ballroom dance will not be impressed. Storytelling is only one factor. the judges decide by the week which factor - technicality, performance, storytelling etc. - they are going to put first. Last night it was performance (their most preferred factor). hence Abby got 40 for a salsa that was only a salsa for a few bars of music.”
Lol so true - last week it was technicality.
Originally Posted by Monaogg:
“Artem has always preferred to tell the story rather than stick to the style and with Natalie it works brilliantly. It makes sure she never gets the perfect score, because for one reason or another the dances are never perfect according to this or that judge.
Perfect scores usually end up as a millstone and a hindrance as far as the public are concerned. Whilst the fans may be happy their favourite scored a full house, it rallies the anti vote.”
“Artem has always preferred to tell the story rather than stick to the style and with Natalie it works brilliantly. It makes sure she never gets the perfect score, because for one reason or another the dances are never perfect according to this or that judge.
Perfect scores usually end up as a millstone and a hindrance as far as the public are concerned. Whilst the fans may be happy their favourite scored a full house, it rallies the anti vote.”
Someone pointed out in another thread - no-one who has scored 40 before the final has gone on to win
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