Yes Artem may not choreograph traditional ballroom dances but I always love his choreography and dances
Artem's choreography
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I like Artem's talent as a choreographer, but for me, part of the challenge of Strictly is to choreograph the dance you were asked to do, not just wander off somewhere and do something else.
I want to see Artem show what he can do within the rules and with Natalie, I thought he has a great opportunity to do that. I was very disappointed in the 'AS'. It was a nice dance that they did, but almost no Foxtrot content.
The song was a poor choice and I don't know if that was a factor in Artem's choice of choreography, but he actually choreographed a very good Tango last week to terrible music.
I want to see Artem show what he can do within the rules and with Natalie, I thought he has a great opportunity to do that. I was very disappointed in the 'AS'. It was a nice dance that they did, but almost no Foxtrot content.
The song was a poor choice and I don't know if that was a factor in Artem's choice of choreography, but he actually choreographed a very good Tango last week to terrible music.
Originally Posted by Liza with a Zee:
“Artem is a brilliant choreographer and anyone who can't see that doesn't know anything about dance. He's trying to please the public by creating an exciting story. He knows that's how you stay in the competition. He is also challenging and showcasing Natalie as she's a great dancer. Near the final he will start pleasing the judges with traditional dances.”
“Artem is a brilliant choreographer and anyone who can't see that doesn't know anything about dance. He's trying to please the public by creating an exciting story. He knows that's how you stay in the competition. He is also challenging and showcasing Natalie as she's a great dancer. Near the final he will start pleasing the judges with traditional dances.”
Whereby in comparison, Sophie's totally in hold, traditional VWaltz had everbody on their feet - it was just so much more enjoyable than N&A's AS - which is supposed to be at least 40% in hold. It was so modern and so new-style, that it was miles away from the Fred Astaire "Musicals" image. At the end of the day, the people like tradition.
I'm getting really tired of Nat and Artem's ballroom dances. They're all samey - if I see them stand side-by-side swishing into arm sweeps (nice technical term there
) - I will scream. She's doing Kara's moves but with half the poise, elegance and connection to the music. 
From someone with such vast dance experience, combined with Artem's choreo, this is all a bit disappointing. Maybe Artem's first year was the exception rather than the rule? He let Holly Valance down at times, too. Not that she cared one jot, obviously, but still.
) - I will scream. She's doing Kara's moves but with half the poise, elegance and connection to the music. From someone with such vast dance experience, combined with Artem's choreo, this is all a bit disappointing. Maybe Artem's first year was the exception rather than the rule? He let Holly Valance down at times, too. Not that she cared one jot, obviously, but still.
Originally Posted by peeve:
“I know that every bad back problem is different, but if I were to stretch to the left and rotate my body, my osteopath would have kittens! I have been told time and again not to rotate, and, as a result, there are some Pilates exercises that I just have to sit out. But I do often hang virtually upside-down from an inversion table, which is a huge help for my lower back problem. I hope Natalie's back is okay and am sure she will b getting expert advice and help to minimise the stress.”
“I know that every bad back problem is different, but if I were to stretch to the left and rotate my body, my osteopath would have kittens! I have been told time and again not to rotate, and, as a result, there are some Pilates exercises that I just have to sit out. But I do often hang virtually upside-down from an inversion table, which is a huge help for my lower back problem. I hope Natalie's back is okay and am sure she will b getting expert advice and help to minimise the stress.”
I appreciate that.
The comments I made were intended to be more about the technicalities of the ballroom hold. I agree that certain types of back injury may make it difficult to open out the back and extend leftwards or turn the torso.
Comments are spot on Spin Turn. I wouldn't want to bore people about how precise getting in hold actually is, from the connecting hand to the finished frame, the number of points of connection, the resistance etc.It is rather more complex than just joining hands and putting the left hand on your partners arm.Ballroom dancing is very complex and detailed and thats even before you start dancing, I do get a little annoyed when so many people think it is easy.
I agree with Len on this one . Far too much out of hold which spoiled the dance.
Why is he afraid oh in hold dancing ? In hold dancing is beautiful . Does he prefer dancing on his own .
What also spoiled their dance was that ridiculous choice of music . Completely wrong . I had to mute the sound.
Why is he afraid oh in hold dancing ? In hold dancing is beautiful . Does he prefer dancing on his own .
What also spoiled their dance was that ridiculous choice of music . Completely wrong . I had to mute the sound.
Originally Posted by Paace:
“I agree with Len on this one . Far too much out of hold which spoiled the dance.
Why is he afraid oh in hold dancing ? In hold dancing is beautiful . Does he prefer dancing on his own .
What also spoiled their dance was that ridiculous choice of music . Completely wrong . I had to mute the sound.”
“I agree with Len on this one . Far too much out of hold which spoiled the dance.
Why is he afraid oh in hold dancing ? In hold dancing is beautiful . Does he prefer dancing on his own .
What also spoiled their dance was that ridiculous choice of music . Completely wrong . I had to mute the sound.”
The song clearly meant something to Natalie and she probably chose it. To me, it just sounded like a bit if a shouty mess. Not my thing at all.
Originally Posted by trevvytrev21:
“I'm getting really tired of Nat and Artem's ballroom dances. They're all samey - if I see them stand side-by-side swishing into arm sweeps (nice technical term there) - I will scream. She's doing Kara's moves but with half the poise, elegance and connection to the music.
From someone with such vast dance experience, combined with Artem's choreo, this is all a bit disappointing. Maybe Artem's first year was the exception rather than the rule? He let Holly Valance down at times, too. Not that she cared one jot, obviously, but still.”
“I'm getting really tired of Nat and Artem's ballroom dances. They're all samey - if I see them stand side-by-side swishing into arm sweeps (nice technical term there
) - I will scream. She's doing Kara's moves but with half the poise, elegance and connection to the music. From someone with such vast dance experience, combined with Artem's choreo, this is all a bit disappointing. Maybe Artem's first year was the exception rather than the rule? He let Holly Valance down at times, too. Not that she cared one jot, obviously, but still.”
BIB - oooh, I've got to disagree with you there!
. Holly wasn't the most ... erm ....dynamic 
of dancers, but, from my point of view, along the way they had some fabulous routines and choreography (not always executed brilliantly on the night, perhaps..). I particularly loved the choreo for jive, charleston, paso (very traditional), foxtrot (lots in hold ) and the black swan dance. Fab
Originally Posted by j4Rose:
“The song clearly meant something to Natalie and she probably chose it. To me, it just sounded like a bit if a shouty mess. Not my thing at all.”
“The song clearly meant something to Natalie and she probably chose it. To me, it just sounded like a bit if a shouty mess. Not my thing at all.”
I agree with you about the song and think she probably did choose it. Quite difficult to choreograph a foxtrot to, I'd have thought, but still, he should have found a way to have more in hold (and I say that as a huge fan of Artem's choreo).
On the positive side, Natalie has had lots of criticism around these parts for 'acting' the emotion of the dance rather than truly inhabiting it (if that makes any sense). Whatever my misgivings were about the choreo and music choice last night, they danced beautifully and I was left in no doubt that Natalie was living and breathing every second of it. (The choreo and the music. Not just general living and breathing
). I wonder if Artem made choices (risky ones imo) to 'give' Natalie that moment?ETA: that last sentence sounds a bit sappy - hope you know what I'm getting at
I am undecided about his choreo sometimes, he is not my favourite pro and I am wondering if he is just squandering Natalie's chances for his own ego.....but then on the other Hand Natalie seems to love what he produces and unlike others I can feel her joy when she dances and I do feel they have great chemistry and respect for each other, so I guess its OK by me if its OK by her.
Originally Posted by j4Rose:
“The song clearly meant something to Natalie and she probably chose it. To me, it just sounded like a bit if a shouty mess. Not my thing at all.”
“The song clearly meant something to Natalie and she probably chose it. To me, it just sounded like a bit if a shouty mess. Not my thing at all.”
I've read somewhere <perhaps her blog> that the song did mean something to her and brought back memories.
(Let's have twelve weeks of freedance,that'll sort it)
Well I know ****-all about dance.
I do know I used to quite like Come Dancing.
I do know I enjoy Fred Astaire etc.
I do know I have collected video of all Pasha's routines with Chelsee and Kimberley and rewatch them all excepting the showdances.
I do know that in four years Artem has been given the delightful Kara,the attractive Holly and now the capable Natalie and yet there is not one routine of theirs that I yearn to watch again.
But as I say,I know sweet FA about dancing.
Perhaps Artem's choreo just 'goes over my head'.
Well I know ****-all about dance.
I do know I used to quite like Come Dancing.
I do know I enjoy Fred Astaire etc.
I do know I have collected video of all Pasha's routines with Chelsee and Kimberley and rewatch them all excepting the showdances.
I do know that in four years Artem has been given the delightful Kara,the attractive Holly and now the capable Natalie and yet there is not one routine of theirs that I yearn to watch again.
But as I say,I know sweet FA about dancing.
Perhaps Artem's choreo just 'goes over my head'.
I liked Choreography, and acting bits. This isn't the proper ballroom competition, and I thought Artem goes for spectacular dancing.
As far as I remember American smooth is freestyle dance with style of ballroom dance. No strict rule that how much you should be in holds.
On wikipedia it says:
A category of dances in American Style ballroom competitions. It includes waltz, tango, foxtrot and Viennese waltz. Previously Peabody was also included.
This category loosely corresponds to the Standard category of International Style ballroom. However, Smooth differs from Standard in its inclusion of open and separated figures, whereas Standard makes exclusive use of closed positions.
As far as I remember American smooth is freestyle dance with style of ballroom dance. No strict rule that how much you should be in holds.
On wikipedia it says:
A category of dances in American Style ballroom competitions. It includes waltz, tango, foxtrot and Viennese waltz. Previously Peabody was also included.
This category loosely corresponds to the Standard category of International Style ballroom. However, Smooth differs from Standard in its inclusion of open and separated figures, whereas Standard makes exclusive use of closed positions.
Originally Posted by Pices-55:
“I am undecided about his choreo sometimes, he is not my favourite pro and I am wondering if he is just squandering Natalie's chances for his own ego.....but then on the other Hand Natalie seems to love what he produces and unlike others I can feel her joy when she dances and I do feel they have great chemistry and respect for each other, so I guess its OK by me if its OK by her.”
“I am undecided about his choreo sometimes, he is not my favourite pro and I am wondering if he is just squandering Natalie's chances for his own ego.....but then on the other Hand Natalie seems to love what he produces and unlike others I can feel her joy when she dances and I do feel they have great chemistry and respect for each other, so I guess its OK by me if its OK by her.”
BIB - see, whilst I understand why you'd say that, I just don't think it's Artem's ego that is the problem. I'm not completely sold on some of the decisions he's made this time, but I believe he's doing what Natalie said in a VT recently (on the show? On ITT?). He can see her potential and is trying to make her the best she can be. I really think some of the direction of the dancing is coming from Natalie (not literally, but in the sense that 'this is Natalie'). IF that's the case, he should be thinking, in a more measured way, about what is good for her on Strictly, though. Perhaps this is stuff that she loves and he wants it to represent her
. As you say, she seems on board with it, so I guess that's okay, but I do wish they would be more strategic .
Originally Posted by tokyo_salsagirl:
“I liked Choreography, and acting bits. This isn't the proper ballroom competition, and I thought Artem goes for spectacular dancing.
As far as I remember American smooth is freestyle dance with style of ballroom dance. No strict rule that how much you should be in holds.
On wikipedia it says:
A category of dances in American Style ballroom competitions. It includes waltz, tango, foxtrot and Viennese waltz. Previously Peabody was also included.
This category loosely corresponds to the Standard category of International Style ballroom. However, Smooth differs from Standard in its inclusion of open and separated figures, whereas Standard makes exclusive use of closed positions.”
“I liked Choreography, and acting bits. This isn't the proper ballroom competition, and I thought Artem goes for spectacular dancing.
As far as I remember American smooth is freestyle dance with style of ballroom dance. No strict rule that how much you should be in holds.
On wikipedia it says:
A category of dances in American Style ballroom competitions. It includes waltz, tango, foxtrot and Viennese waltz. Previously Peabody was also included.
This category loosely corresponds to the Standard category of International Style ballroom. However, Smooth differs from Standard in its inclusion of open and separated figures, whereas Standard makes exclusive use of closed positions.”
What style of ballroom was N & A's AS?
Originally Posted by fridgesoup:
“BIB - see, whilst I understand why you'd say that, I just don't think it's Artem's ego that is the problem. I'm not completely sold on some of the decisions he's made this time, but I believe he's doing what Natalie said in a VT recently (on the show? On ITT?). He can see her potential and is trying to make her the best she can be. I really think some of the direction of the dancing is coming from Natalie (not literally, but in the sense that 'this is Natalie'). IF that's the case, he should be thinking, in a more measured way, about what is good for her on Strictly, though. Perhaps this is stuff that she loves and he wants it to represent her. As you say, she seems on board with it, so I guess that's okay, but I do wish they would be more strategic .”
“BIB - see, whilst I understand why you'd say that, I just don't think it's Artem's ego that is the problem. I'm not completely sold on some of the decisions he's made this time, but I believe he's doing what Natalie said in a VT recently (on the show? On ITT?). He can see her potential and is trying to make her the best she can be. I really think some of the direction of the dancing is coming from Natalie (not literally, but in the sense that 'this is Natalie'). IF that's the case, he should be thinking, in a more measured way, about what is good for her on Strictly, though. Perhaps this is stuff that she loves and he wants it to represent her
. As you say, she seems on board with it, so I guess that's okay, but I do wish they would be more strategic .”
Well I only think it for a smidgeon of time
I dont know about being strategic though because I want her to love what she is producing and I think that she is.Her VW, Charleston and AS have been her best as far as I am concerned and these appear to be the ones that people have bashed her on.....I love them because she has shown joy in them and that is far more important than pleasing others.
Originally Posted by Pices-55:
“Well I only think it for a smidgeon of time I dont know about being strategic though because I want her to love what she is producing and I think that she is.Her VW, Charleston and AS have been her best as far as I am concerned and these appear to be the ones that people have bashed her on.....I love them because she has shown joy in them and that is far more important than pleasing others.”
“Well I only think it for a smidgeon of time
I dont know about being strategic though because I want her to love what she is producing and I think that she is.Her VW, Charleston and AS have been her best as far as I am concerned and these appear to be the ones that people have bashed her on.....I love them because she has shown joy in them and that is far more important than pleasing others.”
BIB Can't disagree with that
.
Originally Posted by Tissy:
“What style of ballroom was N & A's AS?”
“What style of ballroom was N & A's AS?”
Why are you asking me that
? Was it not Foxtrot??Excuse me, English isn't my first language. Couldn't get your question
Originally Posted by Pices-55:
“Well I only think it for a smidgeon of time I dont know about being strategic though because I want her to love what she is producing and I think that she is.Her VW, Charleston and AS have been her best as far as I am concerned and these appear to be the ones that people have bashed her on.....I love them because she has shown joy in them and that is far more important than pleasing others.”
“Well I only think it for a smidgeon of time
I dont know about being strategic though because I want her to love what she is producing and I think that she is.Her VW, Charleston and AS have been her best as far as I am concerned and these appear to be the ones that people have bashed her on.....I love them because she has shown joy in them and that is far more important than pleasing others.”
I simply don't understand this argument. If you are an actress, dancer, musician etc your job IS to please others and to perform the script, choreography or score you are given in a way that convinces, entertains and gives value to your audience, regardless of whether or not you personally like the character etc. There is, quite frankly, in performance art, nothing more important than pleasing or at least engaging, others. Anything else is sentimental, undisciplined self indulgence.
Originally Posted by tokyo_salsagirl:
“Why are you asking me that? Was it not Foxtrot??Excuse me, English isn't my first language. Couldn't get your question”
“Why are you asking me that
? Was it not Foxtrot??Excuse me, English isn't my first language. Couldn't get your question”
Laughing at all the confused smilies . Len did mention it was supposed to be Foxtrot, although I didn't notice .Will have to watch a second time . It's very enjoyable watching a second time in a more relaxed frame of mind .
Paace and Tokyo salsagirl, yes it was a Foxtrot. As incredible as it seems, in the few bars of hold, I did spot a Feather step at least.
Originally Posted by missfrankiecat:
“I simply don't understand this argument. If you are an actress, dancer, musician etc your job IS to please others and to perform the script, choreography or score you are given in a way that convinces, entertains and gives value to your audience, regardless of whether or not you personally like the character etc. There is, quite frankly, in performance art, nothing more important than pleasing or at least engaging, others. Anything else is sentimental, undisciplined self indulgence.”
“I simply don't understand this argument. If you are an actress, dancer, musician etc your job IS to please others and to perform the script, choreography or score you are given in a way that convinces, entertains and gives value to your audience, regardless of whether or not you personally like the character etc. There is, quite frankly, in performance art, nothing more important than pleasing or at least engaging, others. Anything else is sentimental, undisciplined self indulgence.”
In her day job yes of course, but dance is an art form and is subjective.An artist performs from love of what they do and hopes that the viewer sees what they see and feel, if you cannot perform to your own heart then you are just being a mechanical crowd pleaser and will never feel nor display real joy in what you produce.
Originally Posted by Jennifer_F:
“Paace and Tokyo salsagirl, yes it was a Foxtrot. As incredible as it seems, in the few bars of hold, I did spot a Feather step at least.”
“Paace and Tokyo salsagirl, yes it was a Foxtrot. As incredible as it seems, in the few bars of hold, I did spot a Feather step at least.”
Thanks Jennifer and Paace, it was Foxtrot then. Now I can sleep well tonight
It is a mystery to me why Artem would choose to do this choreography when he knows Len will pull him up on it and mark Natalie down. Its even more of a mystery when you consider that Natalie could do anything dance wise(if her health allows her) that Artem asked of her. I have to say that those lifts were fab - especially the 2nd one, so beautiful!
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