DS Forums

 
 

Poor iPhone 5C sales could mean higher prices for everyone


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-12-2013, 22:44
Everything Goes
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the future....
Posts: 11,257

Poor iPhone 5C sales could mean higher prices for everyone. Even if you don't own an iPhone

Apple's terms include rigid and non-negotiable purchase commitments which commit an operator to making a given number of sales of a forthcoming Apple handset, typically without even seeing the handset first. Apple does not give the operator a choice of refunds or returns. If an operator doesn't make the sales target then they must swallow the difference. Mobile subscribers ultimately pay for the unsold iPhones. Apple not only specifies how much subsidy an operator should provide but also demands that no rival can exceed the iPhone subsidy.

Samsung has attempted to copy some aspects. "The deals for the Galaxy S4 were almost as restrictive as Apple's," one source said. "But Samsung has a range of phones, and operators had choices."
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11...s_and_tax_you/
Everything Goes is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 01-12-2013, 22:52
Zee_Bukhari
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,319
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Apple...amsung_id45244

Vimplecom and its Beeline brand, the last major Russian carrier that sold the iPhone, has cut its ties with Apple and will not renew the contract allowing it to sell iPhones. The country’s two biggest carriers MTS and Megafon have quit selling iPhones earlier precisely because of Apple’s harsh conditions.


This is what needs to happen elsewhere, Russia's 3 largest mobile operators stopped selling iPhone due to these harsh rules
Zee_Bukhari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2013, 22:55
jabbamk1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London, UK
Posts: 8,759
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Apple...amsung_id45244

Vimplecom and its Beeline brand, the last major Russian carrier that sold the iPhone, has cut its ties with Apple and will not renew the contract allowing it to sell iPhones. The country’s two biggest carriers MTS and Megafon have quit selling iPhones earlier precisely because of Apple’s harsh conditions.


This is what needs to happen elsewhere, Russia's 3 largest mobile operators stopped selling iPhone due to these harsh rules
Agree. More networks need to do this. Manufacturers should not have that level of control. Then again nor should networks. There needs to be a balance.
jabbamk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 01:43
swordman
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,342
Way does every body act surprised when such a thread crops up, apple rip customers off have done for a long time. Hopefully though operators will be less keen on these terms with the failure of the 5c, so hopefully less apple tax in the future.
swordman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 04:02
adi_carnat
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 184
apple is just a cash cow... why people choose to give them money is beyond me... maybe i m missing the point , but I have tested almost all apple devices and there inferior to any common android on the market.
adi_carnat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 06:06
kidspud
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 11,493
Agree. More networks need to do this. Manufacturers should not have that level of control. Then again nor should networks. There needs to be a balance.
What level of control do you think the manufacturer has? They cannot force a network to sign as agreement, and therefore you would assume that both parties are happy to sign.

From the article linked it is difficult to understand what they are signing up to, as the whole thing seems to be full of speculation and unnamed sources.
kidspud is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 07:42
IvanIV
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 25,199
What level of control do you think the manufacturer has? They cannot force a network to sign as agreement, and therefore you would assume that both parties are happy to sign.

From the article linked it is difficult to understand what they are signing up to, as the whole thing seems to be full of speculation and unnamed sources.
They want to sell the phone, the manufacturer says yes but only if. If they want it enough they accept the conditions even if they are not too happy about them. Apparently they became too much of a hassle for the Russian providers to be bothered anymore.
IvanIV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 08:17
konebyvax
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Ignoringtrollsville
Posts: 7,875
How does that old saying go?

Be nice to the people on the way up because you will certainly meet them on the way down...

I do think Apple will become a niche smartphone supplier in the next 2-3 years, much like happened with their personal computer division. The real problem they have is they are up against a competitor who doesn't seem that interested in making profits on the hardware and Apple have clearly demonstrated with the 5C they have no intention of foregoing their huge mark up on products they supply. The penny will drop with loyal Apple owners eventually. The Moto G, I suspect, is just the start of the onslaught...
konebyvax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 09:33
Zack06
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 27,438
Eventually Apple will implode, and I don't think Samsung will be too far behind either. These kinds of intense deals can only last for so long, all it takes is for one retailer/network to make a stand and it will all come crashing down.

In fact, Apple's stubbornness is the only reason Android was able to gain success in the first place. If they hadn't sought the deal with the most money by making the iPhone exclusive to AT&T in the US and O2 in the UK, all the other networks probably wouldn't have given Android a look in. A very silly mistake by Apple which has ultimately cost them.

As for those saying that nobody is "forced" to sign these contracts, of course not. Just as someone at gunpoint isn't "forced" to sign a contract either.
Zack06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 10:35
Steven L Hunter
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 10,517
apple is just a cash cow... why people choose to give them money is beyond me... maybe i m missing the point , but I have tested almost all apple devices and there inferior to any common android on the market.
If you don't have an iPhone you don't have an iPhone
Steven L Hunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 10:51
alanwarwic
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: the wild world web
Posts: 28,132
If you don't have an iPhone you don't have an iPhone
Are they destined to go on home display next to the three penny piece and the commemorative Ł5 coin ?
alanwarwic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 12:01
kidspud
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 11,493
How does that old saying go?

Be nice to the people on the way up because you will certainly meet them on the way down...

I do think Apple will become a niche smartphone supplier in the next 2-3 years, much like happened with their personal computer division. The real problem they have is they are up against a competitor who doesn't seem that interested in making profits on the hardware and Apple have clearly demonstrated with the 5C they have no intention of foregoing their huge mark up on products they supply. The penny will drop with loyal Apple owners eventually. The Moto G, I suspect, is just the start of the onslaught...
Eventually Apple will implode, and I don't think Samsung will be too far behind either. These kinds of intense deals can only last for so long, all it takes is for one retailer/network to make a stand and it will all come crashing down.

In fact, Apple's stubbornness is the only reason Android was able to gain success in the first place. If they hadn't sought the deal with the most money by making the iPhone exclusive to AT&T in the US and O2 in the UK, all the other networks probably wouldn't have given Android a look in. A very silly mistake by Apple which has ultimately cost them.

As for those saying that nobody is "forced" to sign these contracts, of course not. Just as someone at gunpoint isn't "forced" to sign a contract either.
So do you think the networks have had a bad deal from Apple? Do you think AT&T and Verizon (who the link referred to) feel they have had a bad deal?

Considering we do not even know what these deals are, the only impact I can see so far is the make the networks a lot of money.

If these deals are so bad, it seems strange that NTT DoCoMo have signed up (and appear to be doing very well from it) and China Mobile are rumoured to have signed.
kidspud is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 12:10
IvanIV
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 25,199
For better or worse, Apple will come on top anyway. I think that's the problem here.
IvanIV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 12:52
alan1302
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: West Yorks
Posts: 6,180
apple is just a cash cow... why people choose to give them money is beyond me... maybe i m missing the point , but I have tested almost all apple devices and there inferior to any common android on the market.
Yes, I think you are missing the point - other people will have tested them and found they prefer iOS over Android...simple realy...some people like one thing and others like another.

Not sure how you can't 'get' that to be honest. It comes up time and time again - for some reason some people don't seem to be able to understand the simple concept that some people like one thing and some people like another.
alan1302 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 14:08
Zack06
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 27,438
So do you think the networks have had a bad deal from Apple? Do you think AT&T and Verizon (who the link referred to) feel they have had a bad deal?

Considering we do not even know what these deals are, the only impact I can see so far is the make the networks a lot of money.

If these deals are so bad, it seems strange that NTT DoCoMo have signed up (and appear to be doing very well from it) and China Mobile are rumoured to have signed.
This is a very ignorant comment to make to be honest. Networks don't hold all the cards any more, a lot of their bargaining power and control has been seriously depleted.

This Apple deal is the lesser of two evils according to the networks. It's either turn down Apple and lose out to competitors or enslave themselves to Apple assuming risk with only some potential for profit. Of course the networks are going to choose the latter. They don't want the bad press or the risks and Apple knows that.

China Mobile has already expressed serious concerns about selling Apple products after they were forced to slash their subsidy on the iPhone 5C to maintain an acceptable profit margin.

Apple is extremely desperate to break into the Asian markets, especially China where Android has near 100% control of the market. I highly doubt the deals they offer to Asian networks will be anywhere near as severe as the ones they offered to Western networks.
Zack06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 14:12
konebyvax
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Ignoringtrollsville
Posts: 7,875
One thing is for certain - if they wish to retain their all-conquering hold over the networks in the years to come the 5C had better have been a blip and not a sign of products/strategy to come.
konebyvax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 14:36
Zack06
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 27,438
One thing is for certain - if they wish to retain their all-conquering hold over the networks in the years to come the 5C had better have been a blip and not a sign of products/strategy to come.
Apple has been making constant mistakes with the networks actually. As I said before, the whole reason Android even managed to become the world's most successful mobile OS is because of a mistake Apple made when dealing with the networks.

I think it would be wise for Apple to discontinue the "C" range altogether and revert back to one model. Either that or make the 5C successor significantly cheaper in price.

Eventually the pressure they are putting on the networks with these enslavement-style deals will cause damage.
Zack06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 14:56
kidspud
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 11,493
This is a very ignorant comment to make to be honest. Networks don't hold all the cards any more, a lot of their bargaining power and control has been seriously depleted.

This Apple deal is the lesser of two evils according to the networks. It's either turn down Apple and lose out to competitors or enslave themselves to Apple assuming risk with only some potential for profit. Of course the networks are going to choose the latter. They don't want the bad press or the risks and Apple knows that.

China Mobile has already expressed serious concerns about selling Apple products after they were forced to slash their subsidy on the iPhone 5C to maintain an acceptable profit margin.

Apple is extremely desperate to break into the Asian markets, especially China where Android has near 100% control of the market. I highly doubt the deals they offer to Asian networks will be anywhere near as severe as the ones they offered to Western networks.
So you think the deal is bad for the networks? Despite all the money they have made from it?

I didn't know china mobile sell the iPhone 5c. I thought a deal hadn't been announced yet, and reports claim it will be the 18th December. Are they really complaining before they have even put a phone on sale? Seems a strange deal to sign.

We do not know the deals signed by the western networks and indeed we do not know the deals signed in Asia, which makes the issues raised in the OP link a complete non story.
kidspud is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 15:07
Zack06
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 27,438
So you think the deal is bad for the networks? Despite all the money they have made from it?

I didn't know china mobile sell the iPhone 5c. I thought a deal hadn't been announced yet, and reports claim it will be the 18th December. Are they really complaining before they have even put a phone on sale? Seems a strange deal to sign.

We do not know the deals signed by the western networks and indeed we do not know the deals signed in Asia, which makes the issues raised in the OP link a complete non story.
They gain monetary profit from the deal yes, nobody has denied that, but it's clear this profit comes at the cost of other things, I thought that was a blindingly obvious conclusion to draw from this.

I meant to write China Telecom, not China Mobile.

It's not really a non-story if Apple are forcing non-negotiable agreements and dictating to networks on how they deal with competitors.
Zack06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 20:03
alanwarwic
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: the wild world web
Posts: 28,132
http://www.theguardian.com/technolog...roid-switchers

"iPhone 5C tempts Android switchers "
"Android retains dominance in all countries except Japan while iPhone sees slower uplift "

That is one very very weird 'slow uplift'. It says Apple's world share has fallen from 20.8% to 15.8% (for their peak 'new edition' period), even with the novelty of 2 new phones.

Proprietary walled garden Windows phone is now competing well with IOS.
alanwarwic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 20:44
kidspud
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 11,493
http://www.theguardian.com/technolog...roid-switchers

"iPhone 5C tempts Android switchers "
"Android retains dominance in all countries except Japan while iPhone sees slower uplift "

That is one very very weird 'slow uplift'. It says Apple's world share has fallen from 20.8% to 15.8% (for their peak 'new edition' period), even with the novelty of 2 new phones.

Proprietary walled garden Windows phone is now competing well with IOS.
Non-google android phones made up 78% of sales in China
kidspud is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2013, 23:34
qasdfdsaq
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,286
http://www.theguardian.com/technolog...roid-switchers

"iPhone 5C tempts Android switchers "
"Android retains dominance in all countries except Japan while iPhone sees slower uplift "

That is one very very weird 'slow uplift'. It says Apple's world share has fallen from 20.8% to 15.8% (for their peak 'new edition' period), even with the novelty of 2 new phones.

Proprietary walled garden Windows phone is now competing well with IOS.
The underlying figures show Apple are selling more units, but losing market share because despite that, the rest of the market is growing faster.

So in terms of absolute sales there's a small uplift. In terms of market share there's a moderate drop.
qasdfdsaq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 09:42
swordman
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,342
The continual drop in profits is the worrying aspect for apple, selling more phones but making less money. It would indicate that their new flagship phones have little appeal but now they have brought out the 5c many buyers stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Unless of course the intention was to make the 5c so bad that punters had to buy the flagship phones.
swordman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 09:49
konebyvax
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Ignoringtrollsville
Posts: 7,875
But surely Apple make a bigger %tage profit on the 5C (if it was selling of course) on account of it basically being the year old iPhone 5 in a Primark frock?
konebyvax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 09:52
alanwarwic
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: the wild world web
Posts: 28,132
The underlying figures show Apple are selling more units, but losing market share because despite that, the rest of the market is growing faster....
Really?
Here there is no real data given. It might even mean survey sales fell YOY for all we know.
What is quite apparent via that Japan trend is that not that many buy the phone. It simply comes with the network contract.
alanwarwic is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 13:29.