I'd rather watch The Olympics than school sports.

Wrong show I know but that's what is available via SCD.

The Olympics were very popular last year both live and on television. And many watch Wimbledon and The Ashes live and on television.

So how come we see pro-amateur dancing rather than professional partner dancing?

Why do we have dumbed down television?

Are you asking why Come Dancing is not any more?

If there was a demand for it then I am sure a TV channel would bring it back or something similar. There would be a niche market for it but it would not be a cheap programme to do properly - cost of a large studio / hall, band, professional dancers (presuming the Original Poster only wants professionals), quite a number of cameras. No one seems to be even interested in covering dance competitions except perhaps on very obscure (i.e. cheap) channels.

That was a dated presentation as seen from now. I can't remember whether Come Dancing was gifted amateur or professional. Perhaps there were no professional dance competitions at the time - as per The Olympics and tennis.

But why not have a professionals only dance contest?

Why not broadcast the existing professional dance competitions as they do with professional sports?

I can't see there being much television interest for a competition involving mixed teams of professional footballers (or cricketers) and celebrities.

I am sure they have done their market research. But why is this format applied to dancing but not football or tennis?

I can only think it is because few viewers know what top quality standard is in dancing but they know it in football and tennis.

Dancing is a minority sport - they don't feature much on tv either - curling anyone?

But dancing is something all people have, however small, a stab at, and many people like to watch it.

SCD takes advantage of the 'having a stab' and the 'watching', and encourages some to actually learn something about dancing, or even to learn to dance.

Come Dancing was a popular show at one time. I guess it was also quite cheap for the BBC to present.
The problem was that it didn't change with the times. It was very "middle class" with which I think the BBC became uncomfortable and in a way a bit like "The White Heather Club," eventually appealing to diminishing audiences.
It didn't help that the BBC kicked it around the schedules until it disappeared.

The appeal of Strictly, is the "familiar faces" who are central to the format.

How many shows are geared around so-called "celebrities" these days? A large proportion of the viewing public seem very enamoured of them, for reasons which are beyond my comprehension.
So we get a lot of "dumbed down TV."
But if enough people will watch such prograqmmes they'll think of a way to bring them more.

A dedicated pure dance programme would never get sufficient viewers to justify its existence these days.

For "dumbed down" I take it you mean "produced a show that is absolutely clearly going to cause more interest than a straight professional dance competition".

I've no objection to such a contest being on a minor channel, if it can garner a half decent audience, but it would never be mainstream BBC1 these days.

I don't think in a sport loving nation, folk being so into the Olympics ( as say opposed to watching something like the old Superstars or a celebrity version of sports competition ) is remotely a surprise..

I have never got the.impression that there is a similar interest in ball room dancing ( gee, who's won the latest competition, wish we'd seen it etc ) but the format involving celebrities learning to dance and competing is of great interest. One person's "dumbing down" is another person's "producing a very popular peak viewing time show that millions enjoy".

In fact I kind of think ( hope ) that you know most of this anyway, and your OP is more rhetorical than anything else.

The events mentioned feature sporting stars known to millions. The dancing world equivalent does not and as a non-dancer, I probably wouldn't be able to tell a good performance from a bad one.

I'm genuinely trying to understand the "celebrity" linked genre. I don't get it. I'm just trying to figure why the format works for dance but not for football etc. I accept that it does.

I fully accept that it is popular, peak view etc. Hats off for producing to meet ratings targets. But purely on dancing performance SCD is clearly "dumbing down" to meet ratings objectives. They wouldn't feel the need in football. I enjoy even almost top quality professional Europa League matches but most sneer at them.

Few good answers here. Thanks.

Last weekend was, I believe, the World Latin Final, which was held in Berlin. I believe that was televised live in Germany, and may have been available on Satellite in Eurpoe.

Each country was allowed to enter 2 couples. The highest placed English couple came in 49th position, and the 2nd placed English couple was in 70th position. Perhaps that's why there's not much interest in showing these competitions on British TV.

You can see the World Champions in action here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXUQME8x4Bg

This is the same couple, earlier in the year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY2N96nYxbs

You can obviously play those videos in full screen mode.

If you want a definition of "dumbing down," you need go no further than "Look! Look! Look!" and "Nice to see you, to see you, nice!"

I mean, for cryin' out loud.

Out of interest, are the Strictly pros seen as really elite dancers ? ( I seem to recall hasn't Iveta for one been part of a world champion couple ? )

So are top ballroom stars now having to choose at times between such as Strictly and DWTS and some big professiinal competitions ?

Thanks. I'll save them on my youtube list and watch them.

I think they were when they were competing, none of the Strictly pros do compete nowadays tho, they have all retired. when Darren and Lilia were on the show they were the reigning British National Latin Champions and successfully defended their title at Blackpool whilst on the show on more than one occasion

I've no idea how much current professional dance champions earn in competitions and any related shows.

With Strictly, there's an audience of ten million. The dancers become household names. They have their own schools. Have a look at some of their websites and see how much they charge for individual lessons with those pros.
Then there's the tour and other shows.
I'd suggest they can earn exceptional amounts of money from ancillary activities to their pay for just appearing on the programme.

Yes, I think we know that there are very varied opinions about Bruce.

But more generally, the BBC are simply providing a show that creates great interest, is widely watched and enjoyed by millions, at peak weekend viewing time. Job done.

I also feel "dumbed down" often comes with an unwritten sneer as to how dare they make something / change something to be very popular with most people much less duscerning than my good self.

It's about personal perception isn't it?

At some point with some programmes there can be a point where the viewer says to themselves. "This bit I'm seeing here, is really insulting my intelligence."

That's the point at which it is "dumbed down."
For some, the occasions will be more frequent than others.
Some, "will watch anything."

About 20 years ago the Americans tried that with Soccer (sic). They didn't think that the audience would like draws so they had a shoot-out. That experiment didn't last long.

Serious dance competitions are often televised on the continent, and many are available on YouTube.

There is a 50-minute program of highlights from the 2012 World Latin Final here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj94sqGt9fQ

That program includes an informative commentary, in English. There are also some behind-the-scenes shots, and interviews with some of those taking part (all in English).

Many of these program look really good in HD, and blow the socks off Strictly.

YouTube allows you to download that program, as a HD mp4 file. (There's a 'Download' option just beneath the video). You can then play the program on a laptop, and display the picture on an HD TV. Or alternatively download onto a memory stick, and plug that into the media slot on an HD TV.

I believe that that program was originally shown on German TV.

The Germans get top-class dancers and dancing; we get Bruce Forsythe, Len Goodman, and Mark Benton.

Does British National Champion really mean much?

As stated above, at last weekend's Latin World Championship, the best British couples came in 49th and 70th positions. Most of the best dancers come from Eastern Europe. That may be why so many of the pros on Strictly originate from there.

Darren's partner, Lilia, came from Russia. And Ola Jordan comes from Poland.

How many viewers does the German programme get?

Is it shown on one of their main channels at peak times?

The commercial TV channels are there to make money, I am sure that if one thought they could get even a million viewers then they would show a similar programme.

Anything with celebrities on it gets viewers. For a while.

BBC have melded celebs (a fast-dwindling resource) with traditional light-entertainment.

Celebs learn to cook? Been done. Celebs survive in the jungle? Ditto. Celebs sing? Yep. Stick a celeb in it (oh, Top Gear - Star in a Car) and it'll sell.

If Man U and Arsenal and so forth could only be persuaded to field a celeb each week then I think you'd get viewers. Not me. I hate football. But if you had Chelsea v Man U with Natalie in goal for Chelsea and Susanna in goal for Man U? That WOULD be lots of fun. Plenty of goals!

They should SO do that!

We'd get VT of the training. All the teams would have to go on the London Eye and on a ghost-train and all the other daft stuff. They're all foreigners like the SCD pros so we're used to that.

Bloody genius I am.

Dancesport International have a subscription service available.. http://www.dsi-london.tv/en/

If you "like" their FB page, you do get free clips on there

It is also popular in Japan and the Far East. A lot of the clips I see on YT have an Oriental audience. Although, to my knowledge, there aren't many world class ballroom dancers from there. Correct me if I'm wrong

Don't know, but see further replies...


The press release said that the program would be broadcast live, on Saturday night, commencing 9.15 GMT.


This is the crunch. The German broadcaster who broadcast the World Latin Finals on Saturday was RBB - Rundfunk Berlin-Brandenburg. It's the state-funded broadcaster. These people:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rundfun...in-Brandenburg

I guess that's the German equivalent of the BBC.